Billsfanfourlife Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 As an avid Bills fan I have like thousands of others have scoured the net in search of every mock draft created by pros or one that some kid made during his study hall...nonetheless I have not seen I don't think anyway, one that had the Bills trading down later in the first round? The way I see it if the Bills don't take a WR at the #11 position then one isn't taken until around the 22-27 pick range? So why don't the Bills find a potential suitor that wants to move up and take their first rd pick and possibly their second round pick also? I mean why make the same mistake twice as they did with Donte Whitner? We took him way early than anyone else had him going? We could have traded down and got Whitner later in the round, and to tell me someone wouldn't want to move up to the 8th pick in that draft would be insane. If we're going to take a reach on a Kelly or Thomas and it doesnt pan out again, our friend Mel Kiper and his enormous hair is going to have a field day on us. This is my ideal (kind of realistic) draft situation: At Pick 11 Derrick Harvey if still available. Then trade away a few of our hundred picks we have available and get into the late 1st early second round and take a Limas Sweed, Malcom Kelly, etc... I mean if Malcom Kelly's pro day doesn't pan out for him, he could easily slip to us in the 2nd round also...So you never know. Lets all hope for a successful draft, mirroring the one we had last year (arguably one of the best in NFL)
BuffaloBilliever Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 ... Donte Whitner was a mistake? Interesting
Steely Dan Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 As an avid Bills fan I have like thousands of others have scoured the net in search of every mock draft created by pros or one that some kid made during his study hall...nonetheless I have not seen I don't think anyway, one that had the Bills trading down later in the first round? The way I see it if the Bills don't take a WR at the #11 position then one isn't taken until around the 22-27 pick range? So why don't the Bills find a potential suitor that wants to move up and take their first rd pick and possibly their second round pick also? I mean why make the same mistake twice as they did with Donte Whitner? We took him way early than anyone else had him going? We could have traded down and got Whitner later in the round, and to tell me someone wouldn't want to move up to the 8th pick in that draft would be insane. If we're going to take a reach on a Kelly or Thomas and it doesnt pan out again, our friend Mel Kiper and his enormous hair is going to have a field day on us. This is my ideal (kind of realistic) draft situation: At Pick 11 Derrick Harvey if still available. Then trade away a few of our hundred picks we have available and get into the late 1st early second round and take a Limas Sweed, Malcom Kelly, etc... I mean if Malcom Kelly's pro day doesn't pan out for him, he could easily slip to us in the 2nd round also...So you never know. Lets all hope for a successful draft, mirroring the one we had last year (arguably one of the best in NFL) How do you know that Donte Whitner would have been sitting there later in the round? Detroit picked right after Buffalo and took a Safety in the second round. I think it's quite possible Detroit would have taken him. Why do I give a crap what Kiper has to say?! Big deal if he goes off on the Bills. BFD. If the Bills draft based upon Kiper's criticism's then they are enormously stupid.
deep2evans Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 Donte Whitner was not a mistake, not even close.
Dan Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 How do you know that Donte Whitner would have been sitting there later in the round? Detroit picked right after Buffalo and took a Safety in the second round. I think it's quite possible Detroit would have taken him. Why do I give a crap what Kiper has to say?! Big deal if he goes off on the Bills. BFD. If the Bills draft based upon Kiper's criticism's then they are enormously stupid.
apuszczalowski Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 Do any mock drafts ever have trade downs? They don't do it usually because they have no idea who is going to trade down and who wants to trade up, or what compensation would be. As for Buffalo, what in their past would ever indicate that they would trade down because they don't want to "reach" for a player? if anything, they are more likely to "reach" because they want to make sure they get the player they want. Unlike all of us here who would be just as happy with one guy or the other, the Bills know what they want and who would fill it best, and have players they covet, and won't take a chance on losing them and be happy going with whomever is next. If anything, they are more likely to give up picks to move up to get someone else, then trade down for someone. They have 10 picks this year, I don't think they are worried about accumulating more at the expense of losing a player they really like, just because the guys on ESPN might criticize and call it a reach
Billsfanfourlife Posted April 7, 2008 Author Posted April 7, 2008 ... Donte Whitner was a mistake? Interesting I'm not saying that Whitner was a mistake by any means, he's a solid player, but who can honestly say he's done all that we have hoped that he would through 2 seasons?? Here's a quick look at 4 SS's that were taken in the 1st two rds of the 2006 draft. (2007 stats, two years in the league) 7. Michael Huff (OAK) 89 tckl 0 sck 1 FF 1 INT 8. Donte Whitner 85 tckl 1 sck 1 FF 1 INT 40. Daniel Bullocks (DET) 0 0 0 0 43. Roman Harper (NO) 90 tckl 4 sck 2 FF 3 INT Is it just me or is there one player on this list who has far and away out performed all the others?? Yes Detroit might have taken Whitner at 9, but (hindsight is 20/20) a man by the name of Roman Harper would have been available in the 2nd had we not traded that pick away for McCargo. I like Whitner, I do, but the point I'm trying to make is that why reach for a player when realistically there are other, potentially better options out there? Also just a side note, Whitner out of the 3 SS's that played had the least amount of tackles, and when we all know how poor our run defense was and how RB's were getting past our D-line and linebackers one would think he would be leading in at least this category... And as for the smiley, I'm new to this board, and I wanted to put it at the end of my post but for some reason it put it there, lets just say its for the good weather we've been having...idk? lol
ndirish1978 Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 I didnt realize Harper had been that productive
Steely Dan Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 Dan, did you have a comment on my post? Do any mock drafts ever have trade downs? They don't do it usually because they have no idea who is going to trade down and who wants to trade up, or what compensation would be. As for Buffalo, what in their past would ever indicate that they would trade down because they don't want to "reach" for a player? if anything, they are more likely to "reach" because they want to make sure they get the player they want. Unlike all of us here who would be just as happy with one guy or the other, the Bills know what they want and who would fill it best, and have players they covet, and won't take a chance on losing them and be happy going with whomever is next. If anything, they are more likely to give up picks to move up to get someone else, then trade down for someone. They have 10 picks this year, I don't think they are worried about accumulating more at the expense of losing a player they really like, just because the guys on ESPN might criticize and call it a reach Like I said I hope not. If any of the Bills staff came out and said; "We wanted to take player A but we knew Kiper would be all over us so we took guy B because we knew Kiper would approve." I might have to start looking for another team.
KRT88 Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 As an avid Bills fan I have like thousands of others have scoured the net in search of every mock draft created by pros or one that some kid made during his study hall...nonetheless I have not seen I don't think anyway, one that had the Bills trading down later in the first round? The way I see it if the Bills don't take a WR at the #11 position then one isn't taken until around the 22-27 pick range? So why don't the Bills find a potential suitor that wants to move up and take their first rd pick and possibly their second round pick also? I mean why make the same mistake twice as they did with Donte Whitner? We took him way early than anyone else had him going? We could have traded down and got Whitner later in the round, and to tell me someone wouldn't want to move up to the 8th pick in that draft would be insane. If we're going to take a reach on a Kelly or Thomas and it doesnt pan out again, our friend Mel Kiper and his enormous hair is going to have a field day on us. This is my ideal (kind of realistic) draft situation: At Pick 11 Derrick Harvey if still available. Then trade away a few of our hundred picks we have available and get into the late 1st early second round and take a Limas Sweed, Malcom Kelly, etc... I mean if Malcom Kelly's pro day doesn't pan out for him, he could easily slip to us in the 2nd round also...So you never know. Lets all hope for a successful draft, mirroring the one we had last year (arguably one of the best in NFL) I'd love to see Buffalo and Dallas hook up on a trade: Buffalo sends: 1st (11) 1250pts 3rd (72) 230 pts 7th (224) 2 pts ---------------------- 1482 pts Dallas sends 1st (22) 780 1st (28) 660 5th (163) 26.2 pts ----------------------- 1466.2 pts Buffalo would still have a strong choice at both CD and WR with this move plus we'd still have 10 overall picks. Not sure if Dallas has anyone targeted at around 11. Certainly they reports say they love McFadden but no way he's around at #11. If so, I'm sure a deal like this would go down.
BuffaloBilliever Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 I'd love to see Buffalo and Dallas hook up on a trade: Buffalo sends: 1st (11) 1250pts 3rd (72) 230 pts 7th (224) 2 pts ---------------------- 1482 pts Dallas sends 1st (22) 780 1st (28) 660 5th (163) 26.2 pts ----------------------- 1466.2 pts Buffalo would still have a strong choice at both CD and WR with this move plus we'd still have 10 overall picks. Not sure if Dallas has anyone targeted at around 11. Certainly they reports say they love McFadden but no way he's around at #11. If so, I'm sure a deal like this would go down. If anything, they'll move up to get Felix Jones.
Steely Dan Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 I'd love to see Buffalo and Dallas hook up on a trade: Buffalo sends: 1st (11) 1250pts 3rd (72) 230 pts 7th (224) 2 pts ---------------------- 1482 pts Dallas sends 1st (22) 780 1st (28) 660 5th (163) 26.2 pts ----------------------- 1466.2 pts Buffalo would still have a strong choice at both CD and WR with this move plus we'd still have 10 overall picks. Not sure if Dallas has anyone targeted at around 11. Certainly they reports say they love McFadden but no way he's around at #11. If so, I'm sure a deal like this would go down. I'd love that because Buffalo would then get to draft Mr. Irrelevant! If anything, they'll move up to get Felix Jones. I think Jones will be the better pro. McFadden, IMO, has bust written all over him.
KRT88 Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 I'd love that because Buffalo would then get to draft Mr. Irrelevant! I don't see how. The compensation picks can't be traded and the Bills pick second to last. the last pick is # 252 ST. Louis. Buffalo picks 251.
apuszczalowski Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 I'd love that because Buffalo would then get to draft Mr. Irrelevant! They already have that, he is suggesting sending it to Dallas
berndogg Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 I'd love to see Buffalo and Dallas hook up on a trade: Buffalo sends: 1st (11) 1250pts 3rd (72) 230 pts 7th (224) 2 pts ---------------------- 1482 pts Dallas sends 1st (22) 780 1st (28) 660 5th (163) 26.2 pts ----------------------- 1466.2 pts Buffalo would still have a strong choice at both CD and WR with this move plus we'd still have 10 overall picks. Not sure if Dallas has anyone targeted at around 11. Certainly they reports say they love McFadden but no way he's around at #11. If so, I'm sure a deal like this would go down. It could all be games, as no one wants to show their hand, but Jerry Jones said he has no interest in trading up. He also said that a top 10 pick can "financially cripple a franchise" and unless there's a superstar qb available there's no reason to trade into the top 10 and take that risk. I know we're at 11, but if he really feels this way I don't think he'd want to trade with us.
Steely Dan Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 I don't see how. The compensation picks can't be traded and the Bills pick second to last. Is Dallas' last pick a compensation pick? I didn't know.
KRT88 Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 They already have that, he is suggesting sending it to Dallas no they don't! St. Louis has the last pick in the draft.
KRT88 Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 complete draft order: 1st round 1 (1) Miami Dolphins 2 (2) St. Louis Rams 3 (3) Atlanta Falcons 4 (4) Oakland Raiders 5 (5) Kansas City Chiefs 6 (6) New York Jets 7 (7) New England Patriots (From 49ers) 8 (8) Baltimore Ravens 9 (9) Cincinnati Bengals 10 (10) New Orleans Saints 11 (11) Buffalo Bills 12 (12) Denver Broncos 13 (13) Carolina Panthers 14 (14) Chicago Bears 15 (15) Detroit Lions 16 (16) Arizona Cardinals 17 (17) Minnesota Vikings 18 (18) Houston Texans 19 (19) Philadelphia Eagles 20 (20) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 21 (21) Washington Redskins 22 (22) Dallas Cowboys (From Browns) 23 (23) Pittsburgh Steelers 24 (24) Tennessee Titans 25 (25) Seattle Seahawks 26 (26) Jacksonville Jaguars 27 (27) San Diego Chargers 28 (28) Dallas Cowboys 29 (29) San Francisco 49ers (From Colts) 30 (30) Green Bay Packers 31 (31) New York Giants 2nd round 1 (32) Miami Dolphins 2 (33) St. Louis Rams 3 (34) Atlanta Falcons (From Raiders) 4 (35) Kansas City Chiefs 5 (36) New York Jets 6 (37) Atlanta Falcons 7 (38) Baltimore Ravens 8 (39) San Francisco 49ers 9 (40) New Orleans Saints 10 (41) Buffalo Bills 11 (42) Denver Broncos 12 (43) Carolina Panthers 13 (44) Chicago Bears 14 (45) Detroit Lions 15 (46) Cincinnati Bengals 16 (47) Minnesota Vikings 17 (48) Atlanta Falcons (From Texans) 18 (49) Philadelphia Eagles 19 (50) Arizona Cardinals 20 (51) Washington Redskins 21 (52) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 22 (53) Pittsburgh Steelers 23 (54) Tennessee Titans 24 (55) Seattle Seahawks 25 (56) Green Bay Packers (From Browns) 26 (57) Miami Dolphins (From Chargers) 27 (58) Jacksonville Jaguars 28 (59) Indianapolis Colts 29 (60) Green Bay Packers 30 (61) Dallas Cowboys 31 (62) New England Patriots 32 (63) New York Giants 3rd round 1 (64) Miami Dolphins 2 (65) St. Louis Rams 3 (66) Kansas City Chiefs 4 (67) Carolina Panthers (From Jets) 5 (68) Atlanta Falcons 6 (69) New England Patriots (From Raiders) 7 (70) Chicago Bears (From 49ers) 8 (71) Jacksonville Jaguars (From Ravens through Bills) 9 (72) Buffalo Bills 10 (73) Minnesota Vikings (From Broncos) 11 (74) Carolina Panthers 12 (75) San Francisco 49ers (From Bears) 13 (76) Detroit Lions 14 (77) Cincinnati Bengals 15 (78) New Orleans Saints 16 (79) Houston Texans 17 (80) Philadelphia Eagles 18 (81) Arizona Cardinals 19 (82) Minnesota Vikings 20 (83) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 21 (84) Washington Redskins 22 (85) Tennessee Titans 23 (86) Seattle Seahawks 24 (87) Detroit Lions (From Browns) 25 (88) Pittsburgh Steelers 26 (89) Jacksonville Jaguars 27 (90) Chicago Bears (From Chargers) 28 (91) Green Bay Packers 29 (92) Dallas Cowboys 30 (93) Indianapolis Colts 31 (94) New England Patriots 32 (95) New York Giants 33 (96) Washington Redskins (Compensatory selection) 34 (97) Cincinnati Bengals (Compensatory selection) 35 (98) Atlanta Falcons (Compensatory selection) 36 (99) Baltimore Ravens (Compensatory selection) 4th round 1 (100) Miami Dolphins 2 (101) St. Louis Rams 3 (102) New York Jets 4 (103) Atlanta Falcons 5 (104) Oakland Raiders 6 (105) Kansas City Chiefs 7 (106) Baltimore Ravens 8 (107) San Francisco 49ers 9 (108) Denver Broncos 10 (109) Carolina Panthers 11 (110) Chicago Bears 12 (111) Detroit Lions 13 (112) Cincinnati Bengals 14 (113) New York Jets (From Saints) 15 (114) Buffalo Bills 16 (115) Philadelphia Eagles 17 (116) Arizona Cardinals 18 (117) Minnesota Vikings 19 (118) Houston Texans 20 (119) Denver Broncos (From Redskins) 21 (120) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 22 (121) Seattle Seahawks 23 (122) Cleveland Browns 24 (123) Pittsburgh Steelers 25 (124) Tennessee Titans 26 (125) Jacksonville Jaguars 27 (126) Dallas Cowboys 28 (127) Indianapolis Colts 29 (128) Green Bay Packers 30 (129) New England Patriots 31 (130) New York Giants 32 (131) Philadelphia Eagles (Compensatory selection) 33 (132) Buffalo Bills (Compensatory selection) 34 (133) Baltimore Ravens (Compensatory selection) 35 (134) Tennessee Titans (Compensatory selection) 36 (135) Green Bay Packers (Compensatory selection) 5th round 1 (136) Kansas City Chiefs (From Dolphins) 2 (137) St. Louis Rams 3 (138) Atlanta Falcons 4 (139) Denver Broncos (From Raiders) 5 (140) Kansas City Chiefs 6 (141) Carolina Panthers (From Jets) 7 (142) Chicago Bears (From Panthers) 8 (143) Jacksonville Jaguars (From Bears through Bills) 9 (144) Detroit Lions 10 (145) Cincinnati Bengals 11 (146) New Orleans Saints 12 (147) Buffalo Bills 13 (148) Denver Broncos 14 (149) Arizona Cardinals 15 (150) Minnesota Vikings 16 (151) Houston Texans 17 (152) Philadelphia Eagles 18 (153) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 19 (154) Washington Redskins 20 (155) Cleveland Browns 21 (156) Pittsburgh Steelers 22 (157) Tennessee Titans 23 (158) Jacksonville Jaguars (From Seahawks) 24 (159) Jacksonville Jaguars 25 (160) San Diego Chargers 26 (161) Indianapolis Colts 27 (162) Green Bay Packers 28 (163) Dallas Cowboys 29 (164) New England Patriots 30 (165) New York Giants 31 (166) San Diego Chargers (Compensatory selection) 6th round 1 (167) Dallas Cowboys (From Dolphins) 2 (168) St. Louis Rams 3 (169) Oakland Raiders 4 (170) Kansas City Chiefs 5 (171) New York Jets 6 (172) Atlanta Falcons 7 (173) Baltimore Ravens 8 (174) San Francisco 49ers 9 (175) Chicago Bears 10 (176) Detroit Lions 11 (177) Cincinnati Bengals 12 (178) New Orleans Saints 13 (179) Buffalo Bills 14 (180) St. Louis Rams (From Broncos) 15 (181) Carolina Panthers 16 (182) Minnesota Vikings 17 (183) Denver Broncos (From Texans) 18 (184) Philadelphia Eagles 19 (185) Arizona Cardinals 20 (186) Washington Redskins 21 (187) Kansas City Chiefs (From Buccaneers) 22 (188) Pittsburgh Steelers 23 (189) Seattle Seahawks (From Titans) 24 (190) Cleveland Browns (From Seahawks) 25 (191) Philadelphia Eagles (From Browns) 26 (192) San Diego Chargers 27 (193) Minnesota Vikings (From Jaguars) 28 (194) New York Giants (From Packers) 29 (195) Miami Dolphins (From Cowboys) 30 (196) Indianapolis Colts 31 (197) New England Patriots 32 (198) New York Giants 33 (199) New York Giants (Compensatory selection) 34 (200) Philadelphia Eagles (Compensatory selection) 35 (201) Indianapolis Colts (Compensatory selection) 36 (202) Indianapolis Colts (Compensatory selection) 37 (203) Philadelphia Eagles (Compensatory selection) 38 (204) Miami Dolphins (Compensatory selection) 39 (205) Indianapolis Colts (Compensatory selection) 40 (206) Baltimore Ravens (Compensatory selection) 41 (207) Cincinnati Bengals (Compensatory selection) 7th round 1 (208) Miami Dolphins 2 (209) Minnesota Vikings (From Rams) 3 (210) Kansas City Chiefs 4 (211) New York Jets 5 (212) Atlanta Falcons 6 (213) Oakland Raiders 7 (214) San Francisco 49ers 8 (215) Baltimore Ravens 9 (216) Detroit Lions 10 (217) St. Louis Rams (From Bengals) 11 (218) New Orleans Saints 12 (219) Buffalo Bills 13 (220) Denver Broncos 14 (221) Carolina Panthers 15 (222) Chicago Bears 16 (223) Houston Texans 17 (224) Buffalo Bills (From Eagles) 18 (225) Arizona Cardinals 19 (226) Oakland Raiders (From Vikings through Jets) 20 (227) Denver Broncos (From Buccaneers) 21 (228) Washington Redskins 22 (229) Tennessee Titans 23 (230) Philadelphia Eagles (From Seahawks) 24 (231) Cleveland Browns 25 (232) Atlanta Falcons (From Steelers) 26 (233) Seattle Seahawks (From Jaguars) 27 (234) San Diego Chargers 28 (235) Dallas Cowboys 29 (236) Indianapolis Colts 30 (237) Green Bay Packers 31 (238) New England Patriots 32 (239) Kansas City Chiefs (From Giants) 33 (240) Baltimore Ravens (Compensatory selection) 34 (241) Carolina Panthers (Compensatory selection) 35 (242) Washington Redskins (Compensatory selection) 36 (243) Chicago Bears (Compensatory selection) 37 (244) Cincinnati Bengals (Compensatory selection) 38 (245) Miami Dolphins (Compensatory selection) 39 (246) Cincinnati Bengals (Compensatory selection) 40 (247) Chicago Bears (Compensatory selection) 41 (248) Chicago Bears (Compensatory selection) 42 (249) Washington Redskins (Compensatory selection) 43 (250) Carolina Panthers (Compensatory selection) 44 (251) Buffalo Bills (Compensatory selection) 45 (252) St. Louis Rams (Compensatory selection)
Brandon Posted April 7, 2008 Posted April 7, 2008 Do any mock drafts ever have trade downs? They don't do it usually because they have no idea who is going to trade down and who wants to trade up, or what compensation would be. As for Buffalo, what in their past would ever indicate that they would trade down because they don't want to "reach" for a player? if anything, they are more likely to "reach" because they want to make sure they get the player they want. Unlike all of us here who would be just as happy with one guy or the other, the Bills know what they want and who would fill it best, and have players they covet, and won't take a chance on losing them and be happy going with whomever is next. If anything, they are more likely to give up picks to move up to get someone else, then trade down for someone. They have 10 picks this year, I don't think they are worried about accumulating more at the expense of losing a player they really like, just because the guys on ESPN might criticize and call it a reach I agree with you. The trade down scenario, IMO, is a real risk for the Bills. As I argued last year, when it was Lynch going 'too high', if you like the guy, just take him and be done with it. If you trade down, you're basically telegraphing your pick and giving all of the WR-needy teams still picking after you an incentive to jump ahead of you in the draft order. Just make your pick and be happy that you got the player you wanted. The only time I'd do it is if I had several WRs that graded out equally on my board and brought the same skills to the table. I'm not sure that's the case here. On the other hand, if your plan involves trading down and then fishing through the scraps at WR, then it seems to me that you're not entirely sure what you're looking for. Better bet? Skip the WR altogether in R1 and just draft another position that you're more sure about.
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