Wraith Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 This thread got me thinking yesterday, and I found this product while looking for a "booster" to improve the delay in getting hot water to my kitchen (I timed it last night -- 105 seconds!!): The Chili Pepper Looks simple enough to install and it's relatively inexpensive -- any of you "handymen" have any thoughts on the concept and whether it would be worth it to try? I've already got a power receptacle under my sink (for the disposal). Interesting concept. Nothing stands out as being negative. The only assumption is the extra cost to run the pump is less than the cost of the water going down the drain. Centrifugal pumps are really efficient, typically, and this is not a strenuous application, so that's probably a good assumption. Really interesting idea with the recirc loop. I was wondering what they'd do with the stagnant water in the lines, and it turns out it gets recirculated to the water heater via an additional line. Pretty smart. You'd just have to make sure the pump shuts off before the diverter valve opens to your water fixture, otherwise you could get a really high flow out of, say, your kitchen sink. That would make a mess or damage something. Running the extra line back to the water heater would probably be the most work but even that's nothing major. Do you have a cold water shut-off directly before the tankless sytem?
eball Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Interesting concept. Nothing stands out as being negative. The only assumption is the extra cost to run the pump is less than the cost of the water going down the drain. Centrifugal pumps are really efficient, typically, and this is not a strenuous application, so that's probably a good assumption. Really interesting idea with the recirc loop. I was wondering what they'd do with the stagnant water in the lines, and it turns out it gets recirculated to the water heater via an additional line. Pretty smart. You'd just have to make sure the pump shuts off before the diverter valve opens to your water fixture, otherwise you could get a really high flow out of, say, your kitchen sink. That would make a mess or damage something. Running the extra line back to the water heater would probably be the most work but even that's nothing major. Do you have a cold water shut-off directly before the tankless sytem? Maybe I looked at the installation instructions the wrong way, but where does it talk about running an extra water line back to the heater?
fordhamSteve Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 I was going to recommend a recirculation pump if you had a long run from the heater to a shower. There are a number of different models that either recirculate the water based on a timer or as was found above a switch. The switch would most likely be most efficient as it only runs the pump when you tell it to though with a timer you could probably tune the efficiency to your needs. I believe I saw one on an episode of This Old House that automatically detected the need and turned on the pump without intervention. I am not a plumber so I have no clue how difficult these are to install but the concept seems sound.
Wraith Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Maybe I looked at the installation instructions the wrong way, but where does it talk about running an extra water line back to the heater? Sorry, didn't read the installation instructions, I was just going by the diagram. Looks like I jumped to conclusions I shouldn't have. At second glance, they're using the cold water supply as the "ambient" water return. That is really no different than adding a seperate return line that T's with the input to the water heater. One weird thing that I didn't notice before, though, is that either setup would require the centrifugal pump to pump against the system pressure. The pump would have to work harder to overcome the system pressure and push the water in the cold water supply line backwards to the main line. That would definitely make the pump less energy efficient, but to what degree. Perhaps they're banking on the assumption that the water pressure at the point in the system is low (which could be causing the problems in the first place).
eball Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Sorry, didn't read the installation instructions, I was just going by the diagram. Looks like I jumped to conclusions I shouldn't have. At second glance, they're using the cold water supply as the "ambient" water return. That is really no different than adding a seperate return line that T's with the input to the water heater. One weird thing that I didn't notice before, though, is that either setup would require the centrifugal pump to pump against the system pressure. The pump would have to work harder to overcome the system pressure and push the water in the cold water supply line backwards to the main line. That would definitely make the pump less energy efficient, but to what degree. Perhaps they're banking on the assumption that the water pressure at the point in the system is low (which could be causing the problems in the first place). Since the product is specifically designed to operate in that manner, I'd presume they built the pump powerful enough to handle it. Anyway, I've decided to try it out. For $180 it won't be too much of a waste if it doesn't work. I am bummed, though, that they are on backorder until 5/15.
Jon in Pasadena Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 Really interesting idea with the recirc loop. I was wondering what they'd do with the stagnant water in the lines, and it turns out it gets recirculated to the water heater via an additional line. Pretty smart. This is basically what big hotels, and other places with miles of pipe between the boilers and the further showers, do to achieve that "instant scald-ability" effect, no matter what room you're in. I didn't know that anyone had made a residential product that used that concept. Pretty cool, er, hot!
Booster4324 Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 I wasn't home, my wife paid them. Heyyyyyyyyy wait a minute. So your wife was alone with a couple of young men and you got an unexpectedly low bill?
realtruelove Posted April 9, 2008 Author Posted April 9, 2008 I got my third quote today, $3700, and I'm pulling the trigger. I'm also having a sink installed in my man cave since they're already running the water lines to the garage. Already have cable, satellite radio and microwave in the man cave.
realtruelove Posted April 10, 2008 Author Posted April 10, 2008 I got my third quote today, $3700, and I'm pulling the trigger. I'm also having a sink installed in my man cave since they're already running the water lines to the garage. Already have cable, satellite radio and microwave in the man cave. Yes, I'm replying to my own post. The installation is done and we all took showers today for the first time in 5 days. Boy did we stank. The Rinnai is awesome.
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