Assuming that Losman is going to be traded, I'm surprised

[Ramius]

Seneca Wallace has performed admirably in backup duty.

 

Now, dont you have 4 other threads to start yet today?

[/dev/null]

When we drafted JP there was alot of talk about him having similiar type qualities of Brett Farve. Well, Holmgren was the one who spearheaded that trade with Atlanta and he also took Farve's back up with him to Seattle.

 

Got a link showing that Holmgren thought JP had similar qualities of Favre?

 

If not, then the talk of JP having similar qualities of Favre is just talk of TSW and draftniks. Whether Holmgren agrees is another story

[ExpertOpinion]

Got a link showing that Holmgren thought JP had similar qualities of Favre?

 

If not, then the talk of JP having similar qualities of Favre is just talk of TSW and draftniks. Whether Holmgren agrees is another story

I'd be suprised if Holmgren does.

This abnormality is unique to this and other Bill's forums.

Other than on Bill's forums I don't think anyone has Losman confused the Favre.

[Pyrite Gal]

Or could it just be that the situation doesn't require all this rationalisation.

Maybe Losamn just isn't a good QB , did you ever take that into consideration ?

 

Maybe it is just as simple as....he is not a good NFL QB let's move on.

Unfortunately, for me I have no confirmation that my opinions of whether an athlete will ever be a good NFL player or not such as someone actually paying me money for my opinions are really good opinions. Even those who have some track record of actually evaluating players professionally mess up pretty badly with those opinions. Thus, far be it from me as a simple fan who follows the game for me to make a claim that a player is 100% certain to be a failure or be a success merely because it is my opinion.

 

If I was truly such a great expert then someone would probably confirm that by actually paying me for my opinion. However, without that objective confirmation, rather than offering up drop dead certain opinions, I think that this issue is one subject most rationally to probabilities.

 

My sense is that:

 

1. It is highly improbable that JP will ever have a successful career as a Bill. Though I am more certain of this not because of player assessment which even the best can get all wrong, but because of an assessment of the market which indicates to me that market forces of a few prominent local media outlets and a few noisy fans will never allow him succeed here regardless of how well he plays.

 

2. In terms of player assessment, it seems pretty clear that Losman has positives (mobility, a strong arm, moxie) but that he also has liabilities as a QB (needs a scheme which allows him to improvise rather than play a controlled game- when he is asked to think about what he is doing he tends to throw balls into the dirt even though he has been fairly accurate throwing on the run throughout his career).

 

There are simply too many examples of QBs who has physical talents which got them a high draft spot who simply sucked so bad they got run out of their first stop. The they find a second situation which suits their talents and minimizes their deficits or they finally learn from their first failures and have success elsewhere (there is even the exteme case of Brad Johnson who was a loser in two spots before finding the right situation where he led a team to an SB win.

 

Overall, it seems pretty clear to me that JP is done as a Bill. It also seems quite POSSIBLE (not likely or probable but certainly possible) that in the right situation he may well resurrect his career.

 

Even better for the Bills, who cares if he does well elsewhere (unless it is us that he beats) all we need is for some legend in his own mind GM oe HC elsewhere to think he can be the one who is smarter than Mularkey (not hard) or smarter than Jauron (tougher to be smarter than this Ivy guy actually but he is D minded so it is certainly doable to think oneself a better O schemer or teacher than he is) and for this guy to give us something reasonable for JP.

 

I do not think a draft choice at any level is a reasonable trade for us to make unless we have another plan for acquiring a back-up QB who will do a reasonable job at winning a few games for us if Edwards goes down. You seem to imply this will be an easy find. Perhaps you spoonfed us simpletons a specific answer in a post I missed and if so I would appreciate you enlightening me (us).

 

It is my sense that if Jauron and the crew can pull it off that you are going to be right that JP will be gone before the season begins. However, my belief in this is that I think there is likely some GM/HC/QB coach who is certain because he is a legend in his own mind (or maybe because he is actually good) who will probably give us something of reasonable value for JP.

 

We'll see since no one know matter how certain they say they are really knows what the future will bring. This is in fact a good thing, because if this game were so simple that anyone could predict the future with any degree of certainty this would be a pretty boring game.

[billsdiva007]

When we drafted JP there was alot of talk about him having similiar type qualities of Brett Farve. Well, Holmgren was the one who spearheaded that trade with Atlanta and he also took Farve's back up with him to Seattle.

 

Matt Hasselbeck is getting up there in years and his back up, Seneca Wallace, is really being looked at as a potential WR. That makes sense when you really think about it. Since 1999 the 'Hawks have gone thru more than their share of WRs. Starting with Joey Galloway, Koren Robinson, Darryl Jackson, Deion Branch, Nate Burleson, Bobby Ingram, and DJ Hackett. Most of them are gone and the ones left are either ancient, hurt or disappointing. I'm sure that they regret trading that 1st rder for Branch, the guy has been hurt more times than not. They do have Jordan Kent on their practice squad and it wouldn't surprise if they incorporate him into their offense this year.

 

I guess that they could always fall back on Charlie Frye but the last time that I remember Frye was watching when Braylon Edwards was verbally undressing him on national TV. Charlie Frye as the future franchise QB? I don't think so.

 

It's a natural transition looking back on Holmgren's QBs to expect the Seahawks to think that Farve to Hasselbeck to Losman are QBs that have similiar type of physical and athletic attributes.

 

 

I am too, I think JP would do well in Seattle, Holgrem's just to man to get him back on track & give him what he never had here: GOOD COACHING!! I hope he stays though, what happens if Trent gets hurt?

[Steely Dan]

The teams I think would be interested in JP are;

 

Atlanta

Baltimore

Chicago

San Francisco

Tampa Bay

Washington

[Tipster19]

I am too, I think JP would do well in Seattle, Holgrem's just to man to get him back on track & give him what he never had here: GOOD COACHING!! I hope he stays though, what happens if Trent gets hurt?

 

We'll never know if Losman could of been our QB of the future but I think that he'll be in this league for a long time. JP can throw the nicest long ball and then follow it up with the most frustrating skip passes on the the short throws. I think that besides of all the changes that he had to endure I think the thing that affected him the most was that our past and current administrators did do the one and the same thing with him and that was to try and make him more of a pocket passer and I just don't think that that plays to his strengths. Atlanta always tried to make Michael Vick something that he's not and I think that Buffalo is guilty of the same type of thing IMO.

 

The risk in trading JP is if Trent edwards can be a healthy QB. I think as of right now nobody can be confident in him playing a full season. Having said that a veteran QB (Dilfer?) would be the safest bet for us to ensure of this. I might be overlooking Hamden but that is because he is an unknown factor to me at this time.

 

 

The teams I think would be interested in JP are;

 

Atlanta

Baltimore

Chicago

San Francisco

Tampa Bay

Washington

 

I agree that there is definitely a few teams who would have more than just a mild interest in JP. I think that Atlanta, Baltimore, Chicago, Seattle and Green Bay would be the strongest suitors for him but then again, what the hell do I know? I think that I'll start a few more posts up and think about this for a little while more.

[stinky finger]

I am too, I think JP would do well in Seattle, Holgrem's just to man to get him back on track & give him what he never had here: GOOD COACHING!! I hope he stays though, what happens if Trent gets hurt?

Hasselbeck is 32 friggin years old...THEY DON'T NEED A QB! As mentioned above, Wallace has been more than adequate as a backup as well.

[stinky finger]

The teams I think would be interested in JP are;

 

Atlanta

Baltimore

Chicago

San Francisco

Tampa Bay

Washington

Of these destinations, JP competes for starter in all but Washington, IMO.

[Captain Hindsight]

Of these destinations, JP competes for starter in all but Washington, IMO.

Tampa bay he would have to sit for a year maybe. garcia performed well there this year but otherwise i agree

[keepthefaith]

This is simply incredibly doubtful. I think the bottomline is that even if one believes in Losman he called himself out against Jax and by anyone's measure failed. In order to be accepted by ANYONE he has to:

 

1. Win the confidence of his teammates with his play-

 

Possible actually as his teammates want to trust their QB and he need only play well in practice (which he has done well enough before) and lead the team back to a win in game (which he has done as recently as last season) to get the benefit of the doubt from his teammates who want to believe in their leader.

 

2. Win the confidence of his coaches-

 

Possible also though the coaches are paid to be more suspect than the players we always see examples of coaches who chose to believe that the problem was that the old coaches were not as good as them and only they with their superior understanding and skill can revive a talent. Even if he is fooling himself we have seen people in Schoenert' position decide to believe if given a reason to do so by good practices and a good game or two.

 

3. Win the confidence of the fans-

 

Quite possible with some fans who will root in and believe in anyone who dons the jersey. However simply impossible with some number of loud voices at the game (who we hear more of after their second beer) or read constantly on TSW as they are even more repetitive than I am (and this is darn repetitive) in giving their expert opinions with a total faith which defies reality in their claims to predict the future 100% of the time.

 

4. Win the confidence of the media-

 

This is pretty much impossible as GR makes too much money giving voice to whiners who are entertained most by screaming against these millionaire players and Jerry Sullivan types seem to love being a legend in their own minds to stop significant media voices from stating repetitively he is done.

 

JP was right. The Jax game was make or break for his career as a Bill and all admit he broke.

 

Wow.

 

I have a much simpler and possible scenario. Trent gets injured in pre-season.

[ExpertOpinion]

I am too, I think JP would do well in Seattle, Holgrem's just to man to get him back on track & give him what he never had here: GOOD COACHING!! I hope he stays though, what happens if Trent gets hurt?

If Edwards gets hurt we go to the 2nd string QB.

[ExpertOpinion]

We'll never know if Losman could of been our QB of the future but I think that he'll be in this league for a long time.

You can't be serious with this.

How long does it take to figure it out ?

4 years isn't enough ?

 

 

I agree that there is definitely a few teams who would have more than just a mild interest in JP. I think that Atlanta, Baltimore, Chicago, Seattle and Green Bay would be the strongest suitors for him

The Bills can only hope that this is true so they can get something in return.

If not then just cut him and be done with it.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Tampa bay he would have to sit for a year maybe. garcia performed well there this year but otherwise i agree

He would need that year to sit in Tampa. Garcia said it was the most complex offense he has ever seen & it took him most of the season to get it down. I expect Garcia to have a very good year this year. By the way his wife is not only HOT (former Playmate) but smart & funny as well. She is on WDAE in the morning during the season.

[Flbillsfan#1]

You can't be serious with this.

How long does it take to figure it out ?

4 years isn't enough ?

 

 

 

The Bills can only hope that this is true so they can get something in return.

If not then just cut him and be done with it.

The Bills won't just cut JP. You can close the book & take it to the bank.

[Pyrite Gal]

If Edwards gets hurt we go to the 2nd string QB.

Who in your expert opinion do you think are the possibilities for that role.

 

Saying that will not be JP is an answer to that question. However it is not a mere negative answer which one need not be an expert to give. A truly expert opinion is one that gives the positive options as it really only takes a child to just say no.

[Huuuge Bills]

Who in your expert opinion do you think are the possibilities for that role.

 

Saying that will not be JP is an answer to that question. However it is not a mere negative answer which one need not be an expert to give. A truly expert opinion is one that gives the positive options as it really only takes a child to just say no.

 

My opinion may not that of an expert, but Tim Rattay would be a good option for us.

[Tipster19]

You can't be serious with this.

How long does it take to figure it out ?

4 years isn't enough ?

 

I never said as a starter but that's not impossible neither.

 

 

 

If not then just cut him and be done with it.

 

Please just tell me that you're just being sarcastic on this one because you can't be serious. I've been reading some of your posts lately and you seem pretty bitter about something. I don't mean to be rude but are you really a Bills' fan? If so, what has turned you so anti? Even if it's just isolated with Losman you should still be alright with viewing him as a back up QB but you're not. This is more like a vendetta, so what gives?

[Pyrite Gal]

My opinion may not that of an expert, but Tim Rattay would be a good option for us.

Thanks for the specific response (this is so much better than the simplistic theoretical rants which often appear on TSW clothed as some absolute truth with minimal objective back-up).

 

I have never seen Rattay play (as he has spent his career out on the left coast) so what is your sense of what he is like?

 

On the face of it merely looking at his stats, he appears to be fairly JP like in his output. A middling QB rating for his career), but he does have the advantage of having a lot of years in the league so he may well be a good teacher for a young QB.

 

He never has broken through to be a consistent starter anywhere in his semi-long career though and has not even played a lot the last few years which makes me wonder if he had some type of injury or what the backstory is on his career.

 

Still if there is a credible case for Rattay to be acquired to play the Frank Reich spot starter role for us and also play the teacher role vet Bledsoe played for Brady (a key is for the back-up to not be viewed as all as a starter potentially which Bledsoe was too badly hurt initially to have any QB controversy and then Brady was so good is was never an issue when Bledsoe recovered) if he had few injury issues.

 

If this is the case, I would certainly agree with your signature message of trading RJ for a draft pick.

[Huuuge Bills]

Thanks for the specific response (this is so much better than the simplistic theoretical rants which often appear on TSW clothed as some absolute truth with minimal objective back-up).

 

I have never seen Rattay play (as he has spent his career out on the left coast) so what is your sense of what he is like?

 

On the face of it merely looking at his stats, he appears to be fairly JP like in his output. A middling QB rating for his career), but he does have the advantage of having a lot of years in the league so he may well be a good teacher for a young QB.

 

He never has broken through to be a consistent starter anywhere in his semi-long career though and has not even played a lot the last few years which makes me wonder if he had some type of injury or what the backstory is on his career.

 

Still if there is a credible case for Rattay to be acquired to play the Frank Reich spot starter role for us and also play the teacher role vet Bledsoe played for Brady (a key is for the back-up to not be viewed as all as a starter potentially which Bledsoe was too badly hurt initially to have any QB controversy and then Brady was so good is was never an issue when Bledsoe recovered) if he had few injury issues.

 

If this is the case, I would certainly agree with your signature message of trading RJ for a draft pick.

 

I havn't seen much of him, but when he did play I was impressed. I saw maybe 2-3 of his games in San Francisco, a few in Tampa Bay, and A few plays from a Arizona game last year.

 

If I had to descibe him, I would say imagine Trent, with a slower release. He is fairly accurate, and puts enough zip on the ball to get it to the receivers on time. Although, he IS like JP in the sense that, he had the chance to start, and never improved enough to keep the job.

 

Here is a video on him. While it's not the greatest, you can get a pretty good look at him. (and you can see that he has the talent to do well) As far as being a teacher, I couldn't tell you. But teams with young QB's did pick him up. Arizona with Leinert, and Tampa Bay with Gradkowski/Simms.

 

I'de love to have a Veteran with a similar style to Trent, who we can lock up for a few years. As opposed to JP, who isn't much older, still thinks he can/should start, Will bolt after the season, and plays an entirley different style. The best part is that he wouldn't cost you much more than the veteran minimum.