Derrick Harvey

[Brandon]

I think a lot of people on this board are missing the point. The Bills can only win a Super Bowl by having better players than other teams, especially the Patriots. I think it would be idiotic if the Bills selected a less talented player because it is a position of supposed greater need. It is hard to get quality defensive ends, especially in later rounds; however, the Bills have to have a play maker, and I really do not want to see them reach like they did with Whitner. If the Bills absolutely need to draft a wide receiver, they should trade down to get more picks.

 

As far as offense vs. defense, I am sure the Bills are going to go heavy on offense in this draft, but if a better player is available on defense, I think they have to select him. Both sides of the ball were really bad, hence the 7-9 record. It was a team effort.

 

They would indeed be fools to select a WR who carries a significantly lower grade on their board than a DE. The issue isn't quite so clear as that separation narrows, however, and if the DE were only grading out slightly higher than the WR, need starts playing a bigger factor.

 

Note that ALL of these arguments are also based upon a false assumption, that being that Derrick Harvey is rated higher on the Bills board than their #1 WR. Its possibly true (in fact, I think its probably true), but its also something that we don't really know. Those getting their shorts tied in knots over the prospect of 'reaching' for a WR need to consider this possibility. It may not be a reach on their board.

[Bflojohn]

First off, this little debate does NOT need to include Bruce Smith, we are skewed to a much higher opinion of DE play due to his illustrious career! The simple fact here is IF the Bills believe he is the Best Player Available regardless of position.... TAKE HIM! The draft shouldn't EVER be tied to the bottom line financials, or a specific belief about Play A,B, or C's contributions going forward. There are too many variables contected to the argument such as injuries, coaching decisions, and new player additions. In my opinion, Derrick Harvey may very well be the player who is BPA at pick #11, and as such, the Bills should entertain offers for the pick or take him, IF again he is graded that strongly ( we don't even know this!). The part of the equation that is interesting to me is the comparisons of specific players throughout the NFL to this player (Harvey), who has never played a game in the league, so it is total subjecture, so sit back and enjoy the draft people, they will land a significant player at #11, I'm sure of it....

[Lurker]

So you're just going to ignore the 11 million already paid to Kelsay in signing and roster bonuses for this year, the bonus given to Denney, and the 21 million in guarantees given to Schobel that aren't counted in your little list? (Schobel signed a 7 year, $50 million deal with only about 33 million showing in those salaries, and the first four years are guaranteed)

I'm just passing through, but isn't a great deal of the up-front money paid to those guys already off the books, since it was treated as roster bonuses rather than amortized signing bonuses? If so, it's water under the bridge and they shouldn't be carried just to prevent a cap hit.

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm just passing through, but isn't a great deal of the up-front money paid to those guys already off the books, since it was treated as roster bonuses rather than amortized signing bonuses? If so, it's water under the bridge and they shouldn't be carried just to prevent a cap hit.

It's not at all to prevent a cap hit. The Bills will be nowhere near the cap. The Bills just gave that money last year to Schobel and Kelsay. That means they like them, A LOT, and invested a lot in them and still expect a solid return on that investment. Whenever the team talks about the ends it is almost always sticking up for them rather than saying we need more production out of them.

 

They also have about $90 million invested in that one position. It doesn't mean they won't consider another 16 million with the #11 pick, but teams do look at stuff like that, especially when they have glaring needs at WR, TE, CB they have thrown relative peanuts at, as well as need a solid back-up at other positions. You can't tie up too many high priced guys at one position and keep two 15-25 million dollar players on the field less than half the plays.

 

If the scouts absolutely LOVE Harvey, and he is available, and other guys they were considering are not, and they think in the second and third and fourth rounds there are several players they really like that could fill the need positions, I could see it a lot more.

 

Fans and pundits often just look at stats and say things like the Bills had a woeful pass rush last year and Kelsay only had 2.5 sacks so they will likely upgrade. But I very much doubt the Bills brass looks at it that way. They still like their two-headed monster in Kelsay and Denney.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

They still like their two-headed monster in Kelsay and Denney.

 

About as ferocious as kittens. It has less to do with their lack of stats , and more to do, with their lack of physical skill, and being ideal fits for a tampa 2 hybrid.

[Kelly the Dog]

About as ferocious as kittens. It has less to do with their lack of stats , and more to do, with their lack of physical skill, and being ideal fits for a tampa 2 hybrid.

I may not like them as much as I think the Bills brass does. I was just talking about how the organization acts, speaks, and goes about their business, not my evaluation.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

I may not like them as much as I think the Bills brass does. I was just talking about how the organization acts, speaks, and goes about their business, not my evaluation.

 

Fair enough. They probably do like kelsay/denney. They also really haven't been in a position to add real upgrades at dend. Probably forced more or less into overpaying. I'm just hoping the fluff that comes about kelsay/denney is similar to the fluff about being fine with Anthony Thomas/Fred Jackson before we drafted Lynch.

[In space no one can hear]

Fair enough. They probably do like kelsay/denney. They also really haven't been in a position to add real upgrades at dend. Probably forced more or less into overpaying. I'm just hoping the fluff that comes about kelsay/denney is similar to the fluff about being fine with Anthony Thomas/Fred Jackson before we drafted Lynch.

 

 

I guess my concern about defemsive end is as follows:

 

While I have been a fan of Schobel's, and think he will continue to do well, we have watched his best.

 

 

Likewise, IMHO, we have seen the best we can get out of Denney and Kelsey, they are what they are.

 

I dont see any upside, I see downside.

 

If we have the opportunity to get a pass rusher early(like Harvey) it seems like the second round will have quite a few wr's to choose from that have value.

 

So given the choice, i'll take Harvey and a second round WR rather than, let's say, M.Kelly and a second round defensive end.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

I guess my concern about defemsive end is as follows:

 

While I have been a fan of Schobel's, and think he will continue to do well, we have watched his best.

 

 

Likewise, IMHO, we have seen the best we can get out of Denney and Kelsey, they are what they are.

 

I dont see any upside, I see downside.

 

If we have the opportunity to get a pass rusher early(like Harvey) it seems like the second round will have quite a few wr's to choose from that have value.

 

So given the choice, i'll take Harvey and a second round WR rather than, let's say, M.Kelly and a second round defensive end.

 

Exactly my concerns as well. I think Schobel can still get us 8 sacks or so a season for another few years. As long as he maintains his speed I think he'll still be productive. I have zero problem with Schobel at least for another 3-5 years. Kelsay/Denney is exactly that. What you see is what you get. It's quite underwhelming. You should never pass up the opportunity to draft a pass rusher, when the opportunity presents itself. Especially if it's a need area. For the Bills I think it's damn near dire.