Say what you will about Ralph Wilson...

[Lurker]

meen...

 

im not shur i could edjamcate u if u cant reed that tabel

[JasoninMT]

TG - It's been pointed out here... but, he bought the team when it was on the brink of folding and is trying to make it run in the black while keeping the team where it belongs... I can't fault a guy for that. At least we smell the playoffs even after a complete overhaul of the "stars". Darcy has a habit of hemming and hawing and not always pulling the trigger when he can - that isn't TG's fault other than he continues to allow DR to lose talent.

 

RW - He had plenty of years where he was cheap and refused to pay talent - but in those days the NFL wasn't was it is today... RW is old school and got an NFL franchise on the cheap (via the AFL of course). I think his "cash to the cap" strategy is what drives fans nuts since we know there's more money that could be spent. We had a purge a long time ago, when we watched Thurman go to Miami, Bruce go to the Redskins, and Kelly sent to the pasture. That doesn't include the other "staple" players of our time who came and went - some of them while they could still play.

 

I don't think either owner is a bad person or has evil intentions for Buffalo or fans of their franchises. They're simply trying to make their franchises profitable, and as owners that's their right. I would be VERY surprised if any subsequent owner to RW is able to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Because they will have to contend with a drastically different purchase price than RW and the ROI (return on investment) will be very minimal if at all. I find it interesting that when the media chose to ridicule Wilson for the last CBA - the owners did not, and now the media is coming around to recognize the current CBA is going to cause problems. As complex as the NFLs CBA is, I cannot imagine 45 minutes being enough time to truly analyze the document before approval. Hopefully, the NFL will be able to work out negotiations before they cancel it in November (as is being reported as almost certain).

[Stenbar]

 

im not shur i could edjamcate u if u cant reed that tabel

Thanx...Thats why I axed..lol

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Says who? You don't get rid of natural 40-goal scorers under 25 years old. Period. And don't give me the four #1 picks argument--it's likely that only 1 or 2 would ever pan out, and doubtful that either would be as good as TV has the potential to be (with a real #1 center).

 

Briere's a nice player, but what will his game look like in a couple years. Same with Drury, although I can see him chugging along fine in his 30s. Soupy? No big loss IMO--Sekara's already showing signs that he can fill that role, maybe even better than Campbell.

 

Older players tend to become...older players. Good young players tend to get better.

 

What the Sabres need is a real #1 center, a physical D-man and a quality backup goalie to keep Miller from being worn down. Get rid of Max, Kotalek and use the #1 pick from San Jose as trade bait and the team could bounce back nicely next year.

well, since the Sabres are out and the Flyers. Rangers, and Sharks are all playoff-bound with ex-Sabres contributing quite a bit, looks your argument doesn't hold much water. I still say I'd much rather have a Briere, Drury, and Campbell and 4 #1 picks in March and April 2008-2011 than a natural 40-goal scorer under 25!

[Adam]

You do realize that the Sabres are on the verge of missing the playoffs for the 4th year out of 6th? In a league where half the teams make the palyoffs, that is pretty awful.

 

Additionally, there is way too much smoke not to be fired. Almost every player who left said they'd say for less money if the Sabres had offered it to them sooner. When your fanbase just sold every game the last 2 seasons and bought that new ugly logo out of stores, it sends a horrible message to the fans. Fans have a right to be pissed and they should be.

 

 

As for Ralphie, I never got the reason people didn't like him. I'm 27, but I don't remember the Bills ever not paying a guy because they were being cheap. The only mistakes he made was trusting Donahue and not making sure Flutie started that playoff game. But other than that (and a field goal that went left a couple of feet), he is a borderline HOF owner who the city of Buffalo was lucky to have. And I think his final act is a group sent in place to keep the Bills here longterm (I pray anyways ).

Are you counting pre-lock out? How long has Golisano been there anyways?

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan]

Looking at the Sabres free fall, I have to look at Ralphie and think they guy ain't all bad. Sure he's made a few bad moves over the years but he's never scuttled his team in one season like Tommy Boy has. The Titanic sank slower.

 

PTR

I'm not going to pick a favorite. I see the Sabres being like the Bills last season. Hey we lost our last 3 games like the Sabres are doing over their last 10 game but I'm not going to jump all over Tom. The Sabres like the Bills are a young and very inexperienced team and most of their guys have never been put in a position where they have so much pressure to make the playoffs. I know that both team will be better next season because like what the Bills are doing with their defense, that all the Sabres need to focus on. Both Golisano and Wilson are even. They are both great owners.

[Dawgg]

You do realize that the Sabres are on the verge of missing the playoffs for the 4th year out of 6th? In a league where half the teams make the palyoffs, that is pretty awful.

 

Facts: Golisano bought the team in 2003.

 

He has owned the Sabres for 4 seasons now (one season was cancelled in the labor dispute).

 

2 out of those 4 seasons, his team has made the conference championship. That is pretty f-ing good. Contrast that to the Bills' long-standing streak of missing the playoffs in a parity-driven league, it looks even better.

 

Additionally, there is way too much smoke not to be fired. Almost every player who left said they'd say for less money if the Sabres had offered it to them sooner. When your fanbase just sold every game the last 2 seasons and bought that new ugly logo out of stores, it sends a horrible message to the fans. Fans have a right to be pissed and they should be.

 

Golisano also made a number of moves to bring the fans back to the stadium. He lowered ticket prices, made some key front office hires, and brought respectability back to the franchise. Judging from the fact that his teams have made the conference championship 2 out of the 4 seasons over which he has presided, one would think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

As for Ralphie, actually screw it.. I'm not even going to go there... appreciate him keeping the team in Buffalo, but not much more than that.

[dave mcbride]

Really???????????????

 

Here's a little timeline that might show where the success came from:

 

'98 Conference Finals

'99 Stanley Cup

'00 Playoffs

--------------------------------------------------------

Hasek Traded!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------

'01 No Playoffs 10th in conference

'02 No playoffs 72 pts

'03 No Playoffs 85 pts

--------------------------------------------------------

Rules Changes!!!

--------------------------------------------------------

'05 ECF

'06 ECF

--------------------------------------------------------

Captains Walk!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------

'07 No playoffs 10th? in conference

 

 

 

Now, two conference finals coming directly after rules changes while missing the playoffs in the other 4 years doesn't really smack of a dynasty to me.

 

Did you notice that other guy who walked out of town for pretty much nothing in the summer of '01? Well, I think he had a bit to do with some of that success early on. I know he was washed up......that's why 7 years later he is 23-9-3 with Detroit.

 

The Bills:

 

'98 playoffs (1st round exit)

'99 playoffs (1st round exit)

'00 no playoffs

'01 no playoffs

'02 no playoffs

'03 no playoffs

'04 no playoffs

'05 no playoffs

'06 no playoffs

'07 no playoffs

 

[apuszczalowski]

I'm not going to pick a favorite. I see the Sabres being like the Bills last season. Hey we lost our last 3 games like the Sabres are doing over their last 10 game but I'm not going to jump all over Tom. The Sabres like the Bills are a young and very inexperienced team and most of their guys have never been put in a position where they have so much pressure to make the playoffs. I know that both team will be better next season because like what the Bills are doing with their defense, that all the Sabres need to focus on. Both Golisano and Wilson are even. They are both great owners.

How come now they are a young team again? Because they aren't winning? the thought this offseason and some of last year was that they may be young in age, but the majority of the team is not young in experience as most have now been deep into the playoffs for 2 years.

 

Now they look like they will miss the playoffs and they are a young team again, and injuries. They had injuries last year, and the year before too. The problem is they are lacking top level talent. They have a couple of guys who could become top level guys, but right now they are a team loaded with 2nd and 3rd level talent, mostly because they won't pay for top level talent

[apuszczalowski]

Facts: Golisano bought the team in 2003.

 

He has owned the Sabres for 4 seasons now (one season was cancelled in the labor dispute).

 

2 out of those 4 seasons, his team has made the conference championship. That is pretty f-ing good. Contrast that to the Bills' long-standing streak of missing the playoffs in a parity-driven league, it looks even better.

 

 

 

Golisano also made a number of moves to bring the fans back to the stadium. He lowered ticket prices, made some key front office hires, and brought respectability back to the franchise. Judging from the fact that his teams have made the conference championship 2 out of the 4 seasons over which he has presided, one would think he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

As for Ralphie, actually screw it.. I'm not even going to go there... appreciate him keeping the team in Buffalo, but not much more than that.

The problem with your arguement is that Golisano inherited the majority of the players on his roster. He didn't get an expansion franchise and make them a conference final team, he inherited most of them when he bought them. And yes, in 4 years making the ECF is good, but is it great when they are bookended with no playoff appearances? When was the last time the Red Wings missed the playoffs? The Devils?

[PromoTheRobot]

2 out of those 4 seasons, his team has made the conference championship. That is pretty f-ing good.

So you feel that gutting the scouting department and losing the players who got you to the ECF twice are good moves for the future?

 

PTR

[Alaska Darin]

So you feel that gutting the scouting department and losing the players who got you to the ECF twice are good moves for the future?

 

PTR

It's a little early to whine about "gutting" the scouting department". And it's gonna be real interesting to see what Drury and especially Briere look like from years 3 on in their new deals. And it's awfully tough to argue that Brian Campbell is worth as much to any team as Chris Pronger or Scott Neidermeyer, which is likely how much he's going to get paid.

 

The long time rule of thumb in the NHL is you don't give big long term contracts to little guys over the age of 30.

 

The Sabres have had an up/down year for a variety of reasons but your "doom and gloom" isn't based on substance, it's based on emotion. This season looks a whole lot like last year, without the big win streak to start the year and the OT/shootout success.

[Dawgg]

So you feel that gutting the scouting department and losing the players who got you to the ECF twice are good moves for the future?

 

PTR

 

Frankly, I don't know what the future holds. But I'm willing to give this franchise (and it's ownership) the benefit of the doubt given the recent string success they've had. From my vantage point, they know what the hell they're doing.

 

To insinuate that the Sabres, in one off year, can be compared to the mismanagement that is the Buffalo Bills is awfully harsh.

[Lurker]

The problem with your arguement is that Golisano inherited the majority of the players on his roster. He didn't get an expansion franchise and make them a conference final team, he inherited most of them when he bought them. And yes, in 4 years making the ECF is good, but is it great when they are bookended with no playoff appearances? When was the last time the Red Wings missed the playoffs? The Devils?

TBG could have rejected Briere's $5 million arbitration award in 2006 and saved some cash. He could have let TV walk, and save $10 million this year. He could have passed on locking up Roy, let the other RFAs walk, etc.

 

Total payroll has gone up to $45 million from $28.5 million two years ago -- a 58% increase. Although ticket sales are up, average prices remain the second lowest in the league, so I doubt that $16+ million increase in costs has been entirely covered.

 

The Red Wings have a bigger fan base, higher ticket prices and a better TV contract. And you're not really gonna compare the metro NYC market to Buffalo, are you?

 

Why is the argument that a 'bottom 5' revenue team can't have a 'top 10' payroll year-after-year so hard for many people to comprehend?

[PromoTheRobot]

Frankly, I don't know what the future holds. But I'm willing to give this franchise (and it's ownership) the benefit of the doubt given the recent string success they've had. From my vantage point, they know what the hell they're doing.

 

To insinuate that the Sabres, in one off year, can be compared to the mismanagement that is the Buffalo Bills is awfully harsh.

All I can say is "wow." I can't believe some of you consider this "one off year." I'm not having a conniption over them having an off year, I'm having a conniption because we dismantled a cup contender and we're needlessly cheaping out. You think it's one off year? Let's see where this team is 3-5 years down the road...probably in Hamilton after Golisano sells them to Jim Basille.

 

PTR

[Dwight Drane]

The Bills:

 

'98 playoffs (1st round exit)

'99 playoffs (1st round exit)

'00 no playoffs

'01 no playoffs

'02 no playoffs

'03 no playoffs

'04 no playoffs

'05 no playoffs

'06 no playoffs

'07 no playoffs

 

 

Did I say the Bills were on one of the greatest runs in sports history the past 5-6 years?

 

 

It's amazing the BS that people will put up with and still defend a fraud. The freaking Owner and GM have been in hiding.

 

As I have said, I will wager anyone here that the Bills do more damage in the playoffs over the next 3 years than the Sabres. Ralph F'd up by hiring Donahoe and letting him run the organization like a fascist. The same thing is going on now in Sabreland. How soon people forget. Ralph admitted his mistake and brought in intelligent, loyal and trustworthy people. It took 2 years of housecleaning, and now the Bills are ready to roll.

 

Golisano is going to sell this team.....just watch. These guys are biding their time like a Fat Cat CEO with a golden parachute. There is no need to answer to the critics because Tommy G will slip out the back door with the cash. Ralph will still have the team here, and you will see the Mayflower trucks at HSBC arena. 18 months...tops.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

Couldn't have put it better myself...

 

Let go of Zubrus, Drury, Conklin, and Briere and... oh look, they're all on playoff bound clubs!

Zubrus has been terrible this year, Drury had an average year, Conklin played better than he ever has ond NOBODY saw that coming, and Briere has been routinely booed at home and was almost moved to wing.

 

Oh, BTW. Briere and Drury make 20 million combined and Zubrus makes and additional 3.4 million for the next SIX years!

 

Don't get me wrong, we'd be better if they stayed but the numbers are the numbers and for what those guys are making they are grossly overpaid.

 

Derek Roy gave you 32 goals, 46 assists and is +14 for 4 million dollars.

Danny Briere gave Philly 31 goals, 40 assists and is -23 for 10 million. There are only three players with a worse +/- figure. Dan Boyle who is -24 in 34 games (GOOD GOD!), Steve McCarthy who is -24 in 54 games, and Brad Richards who is -27 in 74 games.

[Sen. John Blutarsky]

So you feel that gutting the scouting department and losing the players who got you to the ECF twice are good moves for the future?

PTR

If those moves allow you to keep Roy, Vanek, Miller and Pominville yup I'd say they are good moves for the future. For today they stink. For nnxt year and beyond, they are solid moves. Roy's new deal is a bargain already.

[Ramius]

All I can say is "wow." I can't believe some of you consider this "one off year." I'm not having a conniption over them having an off year, I'm having a conniption because we dismantled a cup contender and we're needlessly cheaping out. You think it's one off year? Let's see where this team is 3-5 years down the road...probably in Hamilton after Golisano sells them to Jim Basille.

 

PTR

 

Some teams look at what they have, and might realize that the current group cannot get over the top. Then you have to look at long term success. Sure the sabres could have signed drury, briere, etc, and let vanek and roy go. But if they dont win in the next 3 years or so, they they are REALLY starting over. They may have taken a minor step back this season, but i think the moves set the franchise up better in the long term.

 

Who do you want lto hang your hat on in 3 years? a 33 year old briere and a 35 yr old drury? Or a 29 yr old Roy and a 28 yr old Vanek?

[PromoTheRobot]

Some teams look at what they have, and might realize that the current group cannot get over the top. Then you have to look at long term success. Sure the sabres could have signed drury, briere, etc, and let vanek and roy go. But if they dont win in the next 3 years or so, they they are REALLY starting over. They may have taken a minor step back this season, but i think the moves set the franchise up better in the long term.

 

Who do you want lto hang your hat on in 3 years? a 33 year old briere and a 35 yr old drury? Or a 29 yr old Roy and a 28 yr old Vanek?

Honestly? I'd keep Drury in a heartbeat. There are maybe a 10 players in the entire NHL that elevate the rest of the team. Drury is that guy. He makes everyone better. I'd take Drury at 35 or older any day of the week. But we don't have to worry about that now, do we.

 

PTR