Bill from NYC Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 So this guy graded offensive lineman by watching the television feed and by not knowing what the lineman's actual assignment was on the play. I appriciate his effort, but I put veeeeeeery little weight to his results. OK, but when you watch the games, Fowler gets pushed around, and we seem to not do well on 3rd and short. This has a lot to do with the OC.
Fewell733 Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 How big is Justice? http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...evejustice.html 6'4, 293 (at combine - probably played about ten pounds lighter) Strengths: Athletic and quick...Extremely smart with terrific awareness..Is mobile and can get out in space...Technically sound...Uses his hands well...Light on his feet and slides well...Offers some versatility...Has a lot of experience...Great motor...Hard worker. Weaknesses: Doesn't have the size / bulk that you look for...Is not overly strong or physical...Is not real stout at the point of attack...He will have some trouble taking on massive defenders heads up...Does not get a great push..Not a great fit for every scheme.
K-9 Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 So this guy graded offensive lineman by watching the television feed and by not knowing what the lineman's actual assignment was on the play. I appriciate his effort, but I put veeeeeeery little weight to his results. Absolutely! There is no context connected to the research. While I commend the man's effort you simply can't draw anything more than a cursory understanding of who did what how on any given play. A BIG note of interest to me would be, since Fowler is responsible for the line audibles, how many of those were missed by other lineman at any given time. GO BILLS!!!
Beerball Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...evejustice.html 6'4, 293 (at combine - probably played about ten pounds lighter) Strengths: Athletic and quick...Extremely smart with terrific awareness..Is mobile and can get out in space...Technically sound...Uses his hands well...Light on his feet and slides well...Offers some versatility...Has a lot of experience...Great motor...Hard worker. Weaknesses: Doesn't have the size / bulk that you look for...Is not overly strong or physical...Is not real stout at the point of attack...He will have some trouble taking on massive defenders heads up...Does not get a great push..Not a great fit for every scheme. Thanks...it were a trick question...what makes folks think he would be an upgrade over Fowler when Justice's weaknesses are strength and physical play? Wouldn't we be substituting a rookie weak link for a veteran weak link?
Bill from NYC Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 Thanks...it were a trick question...what makes folks think he would be an upgrade over Fowler when Justice's weaknesses are strength and physical play? Wouldn't we be substituting a rookie weak link for a veteran weak link? You are just splitting hairs. That's all.
Fewell733 Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 Thanks...it were a trick question...what makes folks think he would be an upgrade over Fowler when Justice's weaknesses are strength and physical play? Wouldn't we be substituting a rookie weak link for a veteran weak link? a weaker rookie link.
apuszczalowski Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 Well, other than Olin Kreutz, most offensive centers are the ones who get beat. I base this, of course, on no facts whatsoever. neither did the original post, considering the guy created his own ranking system to grade them, and graded them on his own opinion. Fowler is not a Pro Bowl centre, but he is not holding the team back or costing them games. It doesn't help when the other teams are lining up knowing exactly what is being called because the Bills Offence was, well, offensive and predictable.
BuffaloBilliever Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 neither did the original post, considering the guy created his own ranking system to grade them, and graded them on his own opinion. Fowler is not a Pro Bowl centre, but he is not holding the team back or costing them games. It doesn't help when the other teams are lining up knowing exactly what is being called because the Bills Offence was, well, offensive and predictable. True. Offensive line evaluation is tough if there's not a guy pancaking a person on every play or getting knocked over ever 3 plays. I say stick it out with Melvin another year, and if he doesn't pan out, pick up AQ Shipley next year to take over.
Beerball Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 You are just splitting hairs. That's all. I am a nose hair splitting SOB, that's what i am. Seriously, Justice sounds like Fowler Jr.
Adam Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 Thanks...it were a trick question...what makes folks think he would be an upgrade over Fowler when Justice's weaknesses are strength and physical play? Wouldn't we be substituting a rookie weak link for a veteran weak link? Ah, a post I can appreciate. Sure, Fowler is not a good center, but there is nobody better than him in the draft. You are better off sticking with him instead of getting worse. Enough with the "We just have to get rid of him, no matter what" mentality. We put JP Losman in way before he was ready, and probably did the same with Edwards. Lets not be in a rush at every position.
stewy23 Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 neither did the original post, considering the guy created his own ranking system to grade them, and graded them on his own opinion. Fowler is not a Pro Bowl centre, but he is not holding the team back or costing them games. It doesn't help when the other teams are lining up knowing exactly what is being called because the Bills Offence was, well, offensive and predictable. Fowler is ok. No he isn't probowl material but a rookie isn't coming in and doing any better. I was checking some real statistics (although complicated) over at Football Outsiders and they say that we run better to the middle/right than we do anywhere else. Everyone hates on Fowler and Walker and raves about Dockery and Peters, but these numbers seem to say different when it comes to the running game.
bills_red Posted March 31, 2008 Author Posted March 31, 2008 Steve Justice sucks, Mike Pollak is just okay. John Sullivan sounds like a good player "Stout at the point...Smart with decent awareness...Intense and a hard worker with a non-stop motor...A leader with top intangibles...Tons of experience" Next year I'd rather draft Alex Mack in the 1st/2nd.
Beerball Posted March 31, 2008 Posted March 31, 2008 Steve Justice sucks, Mike Pollak is just okay.John Sullivan sounds like a good player "Stout at the point...Smart with decent awareness...Intense and a hard worker with a non-stop motor...A leader with top intangibles...Tons of experience" Next year I'd rather draft Alex Mack in the 1st/2nd. I think we have banned any additional high motor white linemen.
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