Captain Hindsight Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 I do agree that bashing somebody's character or personality is a bit rough. But, in my short time on TBD, I have not seen alot of that. What I primarily see is people questioning his ability to lead the team to success. Statements made by posters(myself included), questioning his ability as an NFL quarterback are not attacks at him personally, they are simply the expression of an opinion. So far, we have seen little to show us that he is the quarterback of the future for this team. When I say TE should be our starting QB, it doesn't mean I don't like JP as a person or feel he shouldn't remain in Buffalo as a backup. It means I feel that Trent give our team the best chance of success. When I express my opinion that JP should be traded, it isn't a personal attack either. I just feel that we could be in a better position if we trade him this season and get something for him(because I feel he could be a valuable backup anywhere in the league) rather than just letting his contract expire at the end of the season and losing him through UFA and getting nothing in return. If you think about it, that is a sign of respect, he has a solid value IMO and we should use that to improve our team in other ways. I have been a bills fan my entire life. I have celebrate the good times and struggled through the bad times just like everybody else. JP is a good person and a very respectable man, but I want to see this team winning again, and I don't think he's the guy to make that happen. So don't assume that when we say JP isn't the guy that we are disrespecting him, his character and his performance on the field are completely unrelated. Bills fans just want their team to be great again. Tipster isnt talking about guys like you. When JP lost his job people on this board were telling JP to go clean the streets of (insert city here) Like he was a horrible person for doing that. That pissed me off too. I love JP and i want to see him do well, hes exciting to watch when he plays well andyou can tell he fun out there. He's a good guy who changed his entire image and worked hard his entire career despite working with meathead, Tom Clements, and Steve Fairchild. I really hoped he would end like our version of favre and i still think he could. That said i hope Trent wins 5 super bowls. I'm a Bills fan and my favorite player is JP. Deal with it people or just have a beer on me
Ramius Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Tipster isnt talking about guys like you. When JP lost his job people on this board were telling JP to go clean the streets of (insert city here) Like he was a horrible person for doing that. That pissed me off too. I love JP and i want to see him do well, hes exciting to watch when he plays well andyou can tell he fun out there. He's a good guy who changed his entire image and worked hard his entire career despite working with meathead, Tom Clements, and Steve Fairchild. I really hoped he would end like our version of favre and i still think he could. That said i hope Trent wins 5 super bowls. I'm a Bills fan and my favorite player is JP. Deal with it people or just have a beer on me I think the more frustrating argument was with the people who somehow thought the way the Bills developed JP was a perfectly acceptable way to develop a young QB. Its something the team needs to change, or we'll be having thse same arguments in 2009 with Edwards and <insert next savior here>
Captain Hindsight Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 I think the more frustrating argument was with the people who somehow thought the way the Bills developed JP was a perfectly acceptable way to develop a young QB. Its something the team needs to change, or we'll be having thse same arguments in 2009 with Edwards and <insert next savior here> Gibran Hamdan
devldog131 Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 I think the more frustrating argument was with the people who somehow thought the way the Bills developed JP was a perfectly acceptable way to develop a young QB. Its something the team needs to change, or we'll be having thse same arguments in 2009 with Edwards and <insert next savior here> I do have to agree, JP was in a bad situation with a bad leadership group(read: TD and Fairchild). I hope he excels wherever he ends up. Unfortunately, I think it is too late to salvage him in Buffalo. I feel for the guy, he got a raw deal. Lets just hope the folks at OBD have learned their lesson about supporting(or not supporting) a young QB. I'd love to see Trent developed in a better situation.
CoachChuckDickerson Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 EXACTLY. My list of complete a-holes on this board starts with Finkle. Off the top of my head, ray finkle, taterhill, beerball, Bill from NYC and alaska darin are some of my favorite posters.
Lori Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 I am a newbie here but I would like to add my comments. First off I must say that I am a JP Losman fan. I am also a Trent Edwards fan. I am a fan of any player who puts on a Bills uniform and gives 100% on the field, supports the community, and shows props for the fans. I really wish JP would have worked out in Buffalo. I think he is a standup guy with a great work ethic, great attitude, strong leader. I like his gun slinger style of play. I feel he didn't get the best coaching and support from the organization but that is how it goes for some folks. It isn't fair but then again somethings in life just aren't. If he stays on in Buffalo I would be happy. If he goes elsewhere, I hope he gets a fair shake and can have a decent career. I hope the Bills staff have learned something from this and doesn't give Trent the same sort of treatment. Trent seems to bring a different style of play than JP. He shows great promise after his rookie season and hopefully if he is our guy can build on it. I am gonna cheer for whoever is starting under center for Bills. (I could never cheer for Brady if he became a bill somehow though, he can DIAF!!) I like to think that the Bills coaching staff know what is best for the team. (Sometimes you start to wonder though.) Get the pieces in place Buffalo and gooooooo BILLS!! You show uncommon wisdom for a newbie. Welcome aboard. Now fetch me a beer.
The Dean Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 I didn't read or post in that thread (nor ones like it) b/c the issue is over and done with. JP was given more of a shot than 90% of players in the NFL get. He has an impressive skillset, but it didn't translate to success on the field, and those in charge of the team felt (like a lot of us fans did) that it just wasn't the right fit and that Edwards presented more of that 'right fit.' Time will tell if they were right. The NFL is a big-time business and like my underavatar says, your better needs to be better than their better. I support JP as long as he's a Bill, and afterward, if he's traded or whatever, I wish him well against everyone but the Bills. He seems to be a first class person. Good luck to whichever team you and the other people pick to support in the future. Just seems to be a little juvenile that you quit on your team b/c of a QB controversy that everyone outside of OBD doesn't know the real ins and outs of <shrug>. Peace! I appreciate where you are coming from but I think some of the sentiment on this board is that if you dont want Losman as the starter or you dont think JP is good or will ever be good is construed as hating the guy. I really dont see the pure hatred that you & many others point out towards losman. Sure you get the wise ass cleaning up the street comments, like the one I made in the other thread, but I think that is pretty harmless. Some of us are just tired of seeing his act. The guy has too many deficiencies to be a successfull NFL QB IMHO, that is why I think it is time to turn the page. I could less if he has taken to Buffalo, or has made blo his home, who cares, I want him to win some football games, which face it, he has not done since he has been here. What is truly sad is how sanctimonious you are being. Good thing you weren't around for the Bledsoe era. Many of the current "JP Worshippers" simply ran him out of town, and he too was a good guy. And yes, there were personal insults, much like the ones about Trent's sister. Now, WHO is upset about not being "right?" Please. You see, I happen to rate your posts as somewhat above average, but forgive me if I choose not to kneel down and worship JP because he is attending a voluntary camp. Losman has not produced, and he went public with his (legit or not) tales of woe. I highlighted this because it was very ill advised, much like some of his on-field decisions. Now, he pays the price. Look, I am not going to pine my days away worrying about JP Losman. He is a millionaire. Even if he continues to play poorly, he should have a comfortable life. If you wanna leave this board because you are oh so upset about JP Losman not starting after 4 years of inconsistent to poor performance, you should do so. That is not my hope. I would rather see you get yourself together and rally around the Bills. Why not accept the possibility that they can be good with Trent? PS: You are wrong about Bills Fans. The Bills play in treacherous weather quite often. WNY has a poor economy. Bills Fans are a cantankerous bunch to be sure, but when push comes to shove, we are the best fans of any team in any sport, even those of us who are not hung up on a so-so quarterback. PPS: I am not so tough either, but there is nothing here that I wouldn't say to your face. I just chose the first three that needed to be responded to. I am sure there are more. Joe's initial post in that thread had NOTHING to do with the JP/Trent situation. It didn't trash Trent. It didn't suggest JP should be a starter. It simply said, and I paraphrase, "whatever the situation is, the guy is a team-first guy. Let's give him credit for that, if nothing else." (The exact text is quoted below.) Apparently, there are some of you that can't just say, "Good for him, on that matter. Yes he seems to be a good team guy." Nope, you have to TURN IT INTO a Trent/JP thread, or a JP sucks thread, etc. I really feel sorry for your inability to leave it alone for ONE THREAD. It's really sad that you guys call yourselves sports' fans, let alone Bills' fans, IMO. He is in attendance at the first day of workouts. Look at all the !@#$s out there who are unhappy with their situation and use the media to bargain and leverage their no-shows as a badge of some display of courage. JP is not divisive..he is a team guy. In my mind this only enhances his trade value if that's the route we go and it shows me that he will be okay if we keep him. We can trash him all we want for his play on the field...but he constantly shows me he is a mature, team-oriented player...I am glad he is still a Bill. From Chris Brown: LOSMAN IN ATTENDANCE: Buffalobills.com confirmed that QB J.P. Losman was in the building for the start of Buffalo's offseason program and did attend position meetings. ---
Tipster19 Posted March 27, 2008 Author Posted March 27, 2008 I just chose the first three that needed to be responded to. I am sure there are more. Joe's initial post in that thread had NOTHING to do with the JP/Trent situation. It didn't trash Trent. It didn't suggest JP should be a starter. It simply said, and I paraphrase, "whatever the situation is, the guy is a team-first guy. Let's give him credit for that, if nothing else." (The exact text is quoted below.) Apparently, there are some of you that can't just say, "Good for him, on that matter. Yes he seems to be a good team guy." Nope, you have to TURN IT INTO a Trent/JP thread, or a JP sucks thread, etc. I really feel sorry for your inability to leave it alone for ONE THREAD. It's really sad that you guys call yourselves sports' fans, let alone Bills' fans, IMO. Bravo Deano. It's the selective reading that causes most of these controversies.
stinky finger Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Off the top of my head, ray finkle, taterhill, beerball, Bill from NYC and alaska darin are some of my favorite posters. Bobby Sherman was my favorite poster. Wait a minute......
BillnutinHouston Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 After reading this thread, my first thought was that if all posters were required to have a photo of THEMSELVES next to their posts, maybe they wouldn't write half the crap they do. Then, I remembered how many people make fools of themselves IN PERSON at RWS tailgate parties. So I guess the self-portrait idea wouldn't make any difference.
Alaska Darin Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 People should take the board more seriously. That's what I do. I don't care which of them is the starter. As long as they are players on the BILLS, I'll root for them. If they leave, I'll wish them luck. And I thought Drew Bledsoe sucked before, during, and after his tenure in Buffalo. But I still rooted for him. And Peerless Price. And Eddie Robinson. etc. That doesn't preclude me from doing a little dance when they're finally cut loose...
Gordio Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 I never launched personal attacks on Drew. That is revisionist history. I lobbied that we never trade for him. I argued that he never produced in a big game. I argued that he had little to do with New England beating Pitt in the AFC championship game. I argued that he was a choker and could not beat a team with a winning record. I substantiated that claim. I argued he held on to the ball to long and did some stupid plays(such as throwing the ball out of bound to stop the clock- on 4th down). I stook up for RJ and posted why the double standard for Drew? And I argued he was not the answer at QB. I am vindicated- he never did jack sh-- once he left the Bills. But I never got personal with Drew. I always stated he was a good guy. I always said he was tough. You seem to be on some sort of crusade against me. I always stuck up for RJ. For Coy Wire. For JP. For Shobel. For Denney. Etc. I have better things to talk about then Drew. Don't you? Kinda sounds like your describing the play of Losman the last 3 yrs.
Gordio Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 I just chose the first three that needed to be responded to. I am sure there are more. Joe's initial post in that thread had NOTHING to do with the JP/Trent situation. It didn't trash Trent. It didn't suggest JP should be a starter. It simply said, and I paraphrase, "whatever the situation is, the guy is a team-first guy. Let's give him credit for that, if nothing else." (The exact text is quoted below.) Apparently, there are some of you that can't just say, "Good for him, on that matter. Yes he seems to be a good team guy." Nope, you have to TURN IT INTO a Trent/JP thread, or a JP sucks thread, etc. I really feel sorry for your inability to leave it alone for ONE THREAD. It's really sad that you guys call yourselves sports' fans, let alone Bills' fans, IMO. Why dont we applaud all 52 guys that came in here then? Im not going to bang the drum because losman decided to come to the voluntary workouts. Good for him, that is what he should of done regardless of the situation. His agent probably advised him of the same thing. Contrary to some of the people's beliefs on this board, he is not in a great bargaining position right now. Add to the fact that if GMs think he could be a cancer, his stock will be lowered when he is a free agent next year. He does not have the resume to offset being labelled a bad teammate. Guys like C Johnson & Randy Moss could get away with it, Losman can not. We should make an individual thread for each of the other 52 guys that came in also. Im not surprised at all that Losman is at these workouts. He has always been a class act & a good teammate. I dont know why people are surprised that he showed up given his past track record.
The Dean Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Im not surprised at all that Losman is at these workouts. He has always been a class act & a good teammate. I dont know why people are surprised that he showed up given his past track record. Joe's post just reiterates what you said in the bolded part. That's pretty much it. But, there have been many predictions, on this Wall, that JP would become a problem, this year. He seems to be the same good guy, and good teammate, this year despite the circumstances.
K-9 Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 It all comes down to the fact that 99% of JP bashers are more set on being right than the Bills being successful. How can an obviously intelligent person as yourself NOT SEE the blatant contradiction in your post? In order for anyone to BOTH bash JP AND be right would mean that the Bills HAVE to be successful. If anything the opposite holds true here. The Trent bashers who are more set on being right would HAVE to see the Bills be UNsuccessful in order to be proven correct. I mean there are posts from 'fans' actually saying they hope Trent fails. What is that if not a twisted desire to be correct? GO BILLS!!!
Ramius Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 How can an obviously intelligent person as yourself NOT SEE the blatant contradiction in your post? In order for anyone to BOTH bash JP AND be right would mean that the Bills HAVE to be successful. If anything the opposite holds true here. The Trent bashers who are more set on being right would HAVE to see the Bills be UNsuccessful in order to be proven correct. I mean there are posts from 'fans' actually saying they hope Trent fails. What is that if not a twisted desire to be correct? GO BILLS!!! Theres idiots on both sides. The people that want trent to fail are no better than the people who are happy that the Bills did bad last season because it means JP is done.
K-9 Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Theres idiots on both sides. The people that want trent to fail are no better than the people who are happy that the Bills did bad last season because it means JP is done. I honestly have never seen one post by anyone that was happy the Bills did poorly last year because it meant JP was done. If you can point me to one I'd like to see it in context. Myself and everyone else I know that have had questions about JP's ability (since his rookie year BTW) had high hopes for him last season and were VERY disappointed he didn't build on his '06 season. I think there are far more actual posts from people who are happy the Bills didn't do well last year because it means Edwards didn't REMOVE ALL DOUBT. GO BILLS!!!
Bill from NYC Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Thanks Bill. You are a good man and a fair man. I respect your opinions and wish you well too. Not at all. I think that an exchange like our is remnant of the "old days" that people are bringing up. Look, I could post a list of posters that I miss, but the good news is that guys like us are still here, and someone such as Lori is holding this thing together. Pete, accept all my best wishes. If we disagree about Trent/JP, it doesn't really mean schitt. It's about Bills Fans, WNY, NYS, and of course, our Buffalo Bills.
Bill from NYC Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 Apparently, there are some of you that can't just say, "Good for him, on that matter. Yes he seems to be a good team guy." Nope, you have to TURN IT INTO a Trent/JP thread, or a JP sucks thread, etc. I really feel sorry for your inability to leave it alone for ONE THREAD. It's really sad that you guys call yourselves sports' fans, let alone Bills' fans, IMO. I don't know Dean-o....should you calm down just a little?
The Dean Posted March 28, 2008 Posted March 28, 2008 I don't know Dean-o....should you calm down just a little?
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