Say what you want about JP...but

[Bill from NYC]

Your signature reminded me ... Black 47 is playing the Bridgewater in Kingston ... April 5th ... tix are $20 at the box office. Doors open at five. I haven't seen 'em since the Killian's Fest at Altamont in 2006. I'll be there. Because, after all ... "I didn't come here to die ... but to fight for the rights of the working man!" Hope to see you there ...

 

James Connolly....is that you?

[Lori]

Thanks for the well thought out response. I love intelligent discourse. If he is the QB that will take us to the next level- that is up for debate, and I probably concur with you. But the personal insults and the out and out hate- for a back up QB that was good to the city of Buffalo- I will never fathom. Once JP is run out of town (like many other predecessors), you can bet there will be a new whipping boy. It reminds of of the Sartre rebel versus the revoloutionary philosophy. The rebel is a fraud- they actually embrace whatever it is they are rebelling against. It is their whole existence. They are nothing without whatever they are rebelling against. Where as the revoloutionary truly wants change. What would some post if it wasn't JP hate? Perhaps they have nothing else interesting to say

Should I take this to mean that you have changed Pete, because wrt Drew Bledsoe, you were relentless and even hateful. Do you seriously not remember this? There were a couple worse mind you (well, at least 1), but you were an active player in the Bledsoe lynch mob, and yes, it got personal.

 

Yesterday, I was not bubbly about JP attending a voluntary camp, and this is what you post? So, have you have experienced a dramatic change? If so, that is of course OK, maybe even good but even at that, why the shock and outrage?

I disagree with Bill's opinion of Losman... but he's got a point, you know. Does your reaction change when your guy's ox is being gored? Of course it does.

 

And that applies to all sides of this discussion, as it has ever since Kemp/Lamonica.

[Buftex]

Should I take this to mean that you have changed Pete, because wrt Drew Bledsoe, you were relentless and even hateful. Do you seriously not remember this? There were a couple worse mind you (well, at least 1), but you were an active player in the Bledsoe lynch mob, and yes, it got personal.

 

Yesterday, I was not bubbly about JP attending a voluntary camp, and this is what you post? So, have you have experienced a dramatic change? If so, that is of course OK, maybe even good but even at that, why the shock and outrage?

 

I disagree with Bill's opinion of Losman... but he's got a point, you know. Does your reaction change when your guy's ox is being gored? Of course it does.

 

And that applies to all sides of this discussion, as it has ever since Kemp/Lamonica.

 

 

Conversly, anyone who is upset over the criticism being leveled at JP (and I think it is way overboard too) should be just as upset at the mocking that Edwards has taken from "Bills Nation". It just goes to show that sports are very emotional, some people just seem to have the need to dwell on things more. As that tired, old cliche goes, it is what it is.

 

It seems there is very little room, amongst many fans, to support both Losman and Edwards. If you say that you are glad to see Edwards in there, a half dozen people will call you an idiot, or say things like "well, let's see how much you like the prince of poise when it starts to get cold".....yadda, yadda...JP supporters, by and large are no more adult in this debate than anyone else. It is just this kind of stuff that keeps some people interested. I post less and less here, becuase, I get tired of the repetitive arguments, especially in the offseason. However, it is what it is. I am still glad there is someone to talk Bills football with, when I want to.

[Chilly]

it is what it is.

 

*cringe*

 

God I hate that saying.

[Buftex]

*cringe*

 

God I hate that saying.

 

 

I like it, liberal douche!

[Booster4324]

*cringe*

 

God I hate that saying.

 

I did too...until I found out you disliked it

[VABills]

Should I take this to mean that you have changed Pete, because wrt Drew Bledsoe, you were relentless and even hateful. Do you seriously not remember this? There were a couple worse mind you (well, at least 1), but you were an active player in the Bledsoe lynch mob, and yes, it got personal.

 

Yesterday, I was not bubbly about JP attending a voluntary camp, and this is what you post? So, have you have experienced a dramatic change? If so, that is of course OK, maybe even good but even at that, why the shock and outrage?

 

I disagree with Bill's opinion of Losman... but he's got a point, you know. Does your reaction change when your guy's ox is being gored? Of course it does.

 

And that applies to all sides of this discussion, as it has ever since Kemp/Lamonica.

Lori, I agree with Bill's opinion of JP. And yeah, I pretty much have never given him a chance. But the biggest thing that I recently don't like about the whole situation is the way it played out the last year. I find a lot of what he has done to be a farce to be honest with you. He was on the Bills for 3 previous seasons, and yet never bought a house here. Never really got involved in the community. Now he goes into last year knowing that he has to win over the team and the city for the big money, and he signs on to a few clean the street programs, and buys a house. Reletivily small investment in Buffalo if it pays off with the megamillion contract. His game at least mentally IMHO never improved and his focus to win over the hearts was disengenious (sp???) if you ask me. I know a lot of folks don't like me stating this opinion, but this is how I feel things went down. Now we have a kid who pretty much has about the same level of skills (different set but playing at the same level), and folks are upset that he isn't in town. Well he and his family already moved here, when he was drafted. they own houses here. They bought into the community from day one, but the "Losman crusaders" get upset that he wanted a couple months away from everything to clear his head. To me that is as much a turnoff for JP as the whole him trying to buy his way into the hearts and minds of the people by signing up to be at a few rallys on cleanup.

[Buftex]

Lori, I agree with Bill's opinion of JP. And yeah, I pretty much have never given him a chance. But the biggest thing that I recently don't like about the whole situation is the way it played out the last year. I find a lot of what he has done to be a farce to be honest with you. He was on the Bills for 3 previous seasons, and yet never bought a house here. Never really got involved in the community. Now he goes into last year knowing that he has to win over the team and the city for the big money, and he signs on to a few clean the street programs, and buys a house. Reletivily small investment in Buffalo if it pays off with the megamillion contract. His game at least mentally IMHO never improved and his focus to win over the hearts was disengenious (sp???) if you ask me. I know a lot of folks don't like me stating this opinion, but this is how I feel things went down. Now we have a kid who pretty much has about the same level of skills (different set but playing at the same level), and folks are upset that he isn't in town. Well he and his family already moved here, when he was drafted. they own houses here. They bought into the community from day one, but the "Losman crusaders" get upset that he wanted a couple months away from everything to clear his head. To me that is as much a turnoff for JP as the whole him trying to buy his way into the hearts and minds of the people by signing up to be at a few rallys on cleanup.

 

????????

[Booster4324]

????????

 

He isn't sharp enough to realize he quoted what she did.

[Lori]

He isn't sharp enough to realize he quoted what she did.

Something's obviously up with the quote/reply function. I'll drop a note to SDS...

[Lori]

Conversly, anyone who is upset over the criticism being leveled at JP (and I think it is way overboard too) should be just as upset at the mocking that Edwards has taken from "Bills Nation". It just goes to show that sports are very emotional, some people just seem to have the need to dwell on things more. As that tired, old cliche goes, it is what it is.

 

It seems there is very little room, amongst many fans, to support both Losman and Edwards. If you say that you are glad to see Edwards in there, a half dozen people will call you an idiot, or say things like "well, let's see how much you like the prince of poise when it starts to get cold".....yadda, yadda...JP supporters, by and large are no more adult in this debate than anyone else. It is just this kind of stuff that keeps some people interested. I post less and less here, becuase, I get tired of the repetitive arguments, especially in the offseason. However, it is what it is. I am still glad there is someone to talk Bills football with, when I want to.

Agreed, and well said.

[Dahlia'sBills]

Lori, I agree with Bill's opinion of JP. And yeah, I pretty much have never given him a chance. But the biggest thing that I recently don't like about the whole situation is the way it played out the last year. I find a lot of what he has done to be a farce to be honest with you. He was on the Bills for 3 previous seasons, and yet never bought a house here.

 

Not true. Even though there was little sense of stability in his position with this team for the first two years, JP bought his house in the early summer of '06, TWO years after he was here. Even so, he had an apartment downtown since he was drafted.

 

Never really got involved in the community. Now he goes into last year knowing that he has to win over the team and the city for the big money, and he signs on to a few clean the street programs, and buys a house.

 

Again, untrue. Since he came here JP has always frequented Buffalo business, was often seen out in public and has dumped money into the Buffalo economy. He was one of the few QB's since Jim Kelly to make Buffalo his home in the off season. Buffalo Lives was in the works for some time before it actually came to fruition. And as stated above.. he bought the house in '06.

 

 

Reletivily small investment in Buffalo if it pays off with the megamillion contract.

 

I suppose you could look at it that way, but on the other hand the guy spent $665,000 dollars on a house IN Buffalo. Right in the heart of the city. Not the suburbs where most players live, WHEN they live here. Really... if YOU had $665,000 to buy a house, would YOU buy it in Buffalo?

 

His game at least mentally IMHO never improved

 

Your opinion and you're totally entitled to it.

 

and his focus to win over the hearts was disengenious (sp???) if you ask me.

 

Based on what, now that what you "thought" happened wasn't correct.

 

I know a lot of folks don't like me stating this opinion, but this is how I feel things went down. Now we have a kid who pretty much has about the same level of skills (different set but playing at the same level), and folks are upset that he isn't in town.

 

Some people are. Not me personally, the kid deserved a vacation. They all do. I wish that maybe he'd come back a little sooner to acclimate to the weather, but he's an adult and I trust he knows what he's doing.

 

Well he and his family already moved here, when he was drafted. they own houses here.

 

Umm..no. He and his SISTER moved here. Trent owns ONE house (in Hamburg I believe) that his sister lives in with him.

 

They bought into the community from day one, but the "Losman crusaders" get upset that he wanted a couple months away from everything to clear his head.

 

You say this about Trent and then say JP was disengenous? JP lives IN Buffalo. HAS lived IN Buffalo since day one. Loves the city. Wants to do what he can to help it.

 

To me that is as much a turnoff for JP as the whole him trying to buy his way into the hearts and minds of the people by signing up to be at a few rallys on cleanup.

 

JP didn't "sign up" to be at a few rallys on cleanup. JP ORGANIZED Buffalo Lives. JP paid for it out of his pocket. For crying out loud, he built the WEBSITE for it himself. Buffalo Lives is ALL JP.

 

As I've said before, if someone wants to dislike JP because of his play, I can respect that. He's certainly given reason at times. But to say you dislike him and then run a string of reasons together that have no basis in truth? That's just ridiculous.

[Stenbar]

That would be the Tennessee game where Evans took a pitch from JP and hit Royal in the endzone and he somehow managed to practially leap out of bounds costing us a TD? The one where that final drive was into a wicked wind so bad we couldn't even consider kicking FG's from any appreciable distance? That would be the same game the defense gave up 10 points in the 4th quarter including a seven minute drive for the go ahead FG.

 

The offense put up 29 points, it would have been 33 if not for Royal's screw up. He moved us on our last poss. to the Titan 28 yard line which was still too far for a FG given the wind conditions. It was 4th down when he was intercepted in the endzone, he had narrowly avoided a sack before he threw it. We still had 41 seconds left on the clock so his time management wasn't a problem at all.

 

JP had some stinker games, for sure, more than his share even but not that one. Hang that one on Royal.

He looked like a lost sheep on that last 2 minute drive when he had a chance to overcome all those obstacles..No doubt there were some collosal mistakes made not by him but he had the ball with time and to's left and he looked bad..Thats the time to shine...Just my opinion you might have a different take but thats how I interpeted it..

[SABURZFAN]

That is a great post. Very well said. JP needs all the practice he can get.

 

 

it wasn't a post to bash him either. i'm sure that some of the Losman fans took it that way though.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

In all fairness, Pete (and I appreciate your sentiments), Bills fans are no smarter, or classier, than any other NFL fans. It is the pack mentallity that the NFL thrives on. The internet just makes it all the more visable. I am a big fan of Losman too, but the longer he played, the more inclined I was/am to think he might not be the answer. Still, I never wanted to see a Bills player succeed more than JP. However, there have been a lot of good guys to don the Bills uniform over the years. Drew Bledsoe, by most all accounts, was a hell of a good guy. When he couldn't win enough games, and his flaws as a player became more prominent, all of his good will and image meant nothing. It has been that way forever. Knowing people involved with the franchise for about 20 years, I can tell you, most Bills staffers like Rob Johnson a lot more than they liked Doug Flutie. But, Flutie won more games....that is, in the end, what it is always about.

 

Wefollow the Bills, because we want the team to win titles (but hell, we will even settle for a few games). I for one, firmly believe, should JP end up in Buffalo for the 2008 season, he will get a chance to start again, at some point. It might be for injury, or for poor performance, but there are so few guys who start every game any more. I don't buy the fact that JP hasn't gotten a fair shake to win the starting job. He has/had to perform better than he did, no matter what the circumstances, for the Bills (or any NFL team for that matter) to committ to him. He just never really performed well in those "gotta take the reins" situations. It has nothing to do with Trent Edwards being better than Losman (he may or may not be, we shall see), but everything to do with JP having to be better, period.

 

this is a great post!

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Lori, I agree with Bill's opinion of JP. And yeah, I pretty much have never given him a chance. But the biggest thing that I recently don't like about the whole situation is the way it played out the last year. I find a lot of what he has done to be a farce to be honest with you. He was on the Bills for 3 previous seasons, and yet never bought a house here. Never really got involved in the community. Now he goes into last year knowing that he has to win over the team and the city for the big money, and he signs on to a few clean the street programs, and buys a house. Reletivily small investment in Buffalo if it pays off with the megamillion contract. His game at least mentally IMHO never improved and his focus to win over the hearts was disengenious (sp???) if you ask me. I know a lot of folks don't like me stating this opinion, but this is how I feel things went down. Now we have a kid who pretty much has about the same level of skills (different set but playing at the same level), and folks are upset that he isn't in town. Well he and his family already moved here, when he was drafted. they own houses here. They bought into the community from day one, but the "Losman crusaders" get upset that he wanted a couple months away from everything to clear his head. To me that is as much a turnoff for JP as the whole him trying to buy his way into the hearts and minds of the people by signing up to be at a few rallys on cleanup.

ummm, I don't have all the facts and addresses, but JP has spent pretty much his entire post-college life in the city of Buffalo, with a few vacations in between. He has been living downtown and very visible in the city since he was a rookie. I think he bought a condo near Goodell before he bought the house on Oakland, not sure. He has been pro-Buffalo all the way, but it took a while to execute his plan. Putting aside his skill set and performance on the field for a second, to even suggest that he staged this beautify Buffalo thing as return on investment is pretty low. I'm surprised even you crawl down there....

 

 

JP believes more in the city of Buffalo than a good chunk of the homers who've lived there their whole lives.

 

and again, I'll claim ignorance, but the other kid doesn't live in Buffalo IFAIK! He bought a house in the southtowns, but lives off season in Cali.

[Tipster19]

Drew Bledsoe, by most all accounts, was a hell of a good guy.

 

I'm sorry but I have an issue with this statement. Personally I'm sure that it's more than accurate but I think that when we talk professionally it's not a very true statement. First let me say that I was never was a Bledsoe fan professionally but I will admit that when Buffalo traded for him I drank the Kool-Aid. What I'm referring to is that when we did court him just before we signed him I remember that this franchise and community rolled out the red carpet for him. Then he had a great year and everything was hunky dory in Billsville. Then Price was traded and and the team for whatever reason spiraled downward. I won't blame Bledsoe for all of this but he was a big contributor to it though.

 

My issue with Bledsoe first and foremost was this guy never bought into being one of us. he couldn't get out of town fast enough when the season ended and dragged his feet when it was time to come back for the next season. I will give him credit on the way that he handled himself when Brady emerged though. He was classy about it and wasn't a crybaby but because of that impression and him coming to my favorite team gave me some hope and a willingness to form a new opinion of him based on how he fared for his new team.

 

When he and the team started to be unsuccessful, there wasn't anything that he exemplified that showed me that he was a veteran leader. When it was more than apparent that he wasn't worthy of being the starter and the Bills were wanting to annoint a new starter (Losman) he wasn't going to have any part of it. Regardless if it was a right or wrong decision he didn't even try to fake it as a supporter of this franchise. What he showed in New England he didn't show here in Buffalo. Not that any of this deserves the type of treatment that him and his family had to endure but it also doesn't mean that his on the field play should be excused either. When he threw that pass away with about two minutes left in the game against Oakland at the Ralph with still a chance to win was the final straw for me. This was after he numerously held on to the ball and would get sacked countless times to end any kind of hope of pulling games out. The icing on the cake for me would be listening to all his BS post game press conferences and never hearing him stepping up and taking the responsibility for it. There was always a reason for their loss and always an excuse. Have you ever heard of the saying of taking one for the team? Well, he wouldn't be taking one for the team because he WAS the reason, that's why they blew so many games, especially when it came to crunch time. I tell you what, if I was a teammate of his at that time I would have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. TO didn't when Bledsoe went to Dallas but that's a I, I, me, me player who was dead wrong for being public about it. I don't think that it's a coincidence that both of these players landed up playing for multiple teams. Where Bledsoe may have not been like that originally but he landed up like that eventually. TO has always been like that, so it doesn't come as any big surprise.

 

Bledsoe then went off to Dallas to be a starter and play for his original coach who not only wanted him but was willing to give him every shot under the sun. What happens next? Parcells realized that Drew wasn't even close to being the player he was in years past. I don't condone TO's actions towards him though neither. Matter of fact, it pissed me off and I wasn't even close to being a Bledsoe fan at this time or feeling any kind of loyalty to him for being an ex Buffalo player but teammates should be in it together, if not privately then at least in front of the public eye. Then Parcells benched him and Bledsoe's attitude eroded almost immediately, even faster and more so than it did in Buffalo. So what does Bledsoe do then? He pouts and takes his ball and goes home. While, I can't fault a guy for being competitive and believing in himself but I can and am turned off on what projected to be a pouting, dimenished player who at this point in his career was only concerned about what was going to happen for him and not even caring about the big picture. There's a big difference between Bledsoe and Testaverde, that's for sure.

 

To finish up this thing on Bledsoe the final display of his attitude was when Cincinatti was thinking about signing him on as a back up to Palmer, he wanted no part of it unless he could be a starter for a team. Why? He certainly hasn't done or shown anything that would even tempt a team to give him a chance as a starter. His production as a starter has vanished years ago and either he wouldn't come to terms with it or he didn't care if it was true, he wasn't going to have any part of it. That's cool but don't tell me what a great guy he is. His actions spoke volumes to me.

[AKC]

JP didn't "sign up" to be at a few rallys on cleanup. JP ORGANIZED Buffalo Lives. JP paid for it out of his pocket. For crying out loud, he built the WEBSITE for it himself. Buffalo Lives is ALL JP.

 

Not to mention he'd been working up a business plan to put an authentic Mexican Restaurant in downtown Buffalo based upon a favorite of his from his childhood neighborhood.

[Buftex]

I'm sorry but I have an issue with this statement. Personally I'm sure that it's more than accurate but I think that when we talk professionally it's not a very true statement. ...................

That's cool but don't tell me what a great guy he is. His actions spoke volumes to me.

 

Wow, Tipster, I guess I will never interest you in buying either or my Drew Bledsoe jerseys!

 

I understand your point about Drew...but I am also not sure it is fair to assume that we know what is going on in someones head, all of the time. I certainly don't remember Bledsoe having problems with teammates, anywhere, except maybe TO. But, my point was really not all of that. You gotta admitt, most of the complaints you have about Drew would be easily glossed over,if the team had been successful. And with the kids we have here now (JP and Trent), it is sort of the same thing. The team is not doing well, people pick their positions of debate, and anything the other guy does, gets blown out of proportion. Not unlike the presidential elections.

 

I think the whole, "he doesn't live here in the offseason" argument that is made about all the QB's is really the worst. It proves nothing. Bledsoe has a family and kids, just like Flutie before him. Nobody hated Brett Favre because he spent his offseasons in Missississippi, rather than Wisconsin. Because he won. These guys eat, breath and drink more than half the year. I have never played sports professionaly, but I imagine it is as mentally draining as it is physically.

 

I love the fact that JP poured his heart and soul into the city of Buffalo. I am very sincere in that. It is my favorite thing about the kid. I really liked Danny Briere of the Sabres for the same reason. I wish they were all like that, but I can't hate them if they are not, or pretend that it has something to do with their performance on the field. Ultimately, isn't that what really matters, for our purposes? If we just want to root for good guys who can't play the game, why not drive by the literacy volunteers office, and recruit some depth for the roster?

 

These guys make lots of money. They do it for the money and the glory, but they also do it for their families. They can afford to live somewhere else part of the year, with their families, where their families would rather be, why begrudge them that? Who wouldn't live other places for part of the year, if they could? Wouldn't we all do what was best for our families if our job afforded it? We don't all have those options, so we do what we have to. Part of the benefit of being a big time pro athlete is that your options are greater.

 

Winning solves everything.

 

Oh yeah, I am glad you are back!

[VABills]

As I've said before, if someone wants to dislike JP because of his play, I can respect that. He's certainly given reason at times. But to say you dislike him and then run a string of reasons together that have no basis in truth? That's just ridiculous.

I'll just answer this, since it seems to be the basis for your whole response, but I never said I had any "facts" to support it, I just feel like it was a plan by him to try to win his new contract by buying the house and "organizing" the cleanup. I just find it very fake especially coming in his 4th year. Just seems to me that if he was sold on the city and the people he would have done this long before his "contract season". Timing just seems a little too convient for me. Trent may or may not "live" full time in the Buffalo area, but he did buy a house from day one, and maybe it was only his sister that moved with him. I thought I read the parents moved or were moving East as well. Still seems like he bought, literally into the city and region, day one. Again as I stated above, and will restate now, this is only my feelings and opinions.