Reverend Wrights post 9/11 sermon

[Kelly the Dog]

People really should take the time to listen to this sermon. The one five days after 9/11 where Wright gave the most heinous "chickens have come home to roost" line, which wasn't his, but the white guy he saw on Fox News the day before. Seriously. It's about 35 minutes long. I truly think many if not most will have a different reaction to him.

 

Some, a lot perhaps, will still hate him for some of the things he says and how he says it. Perhaps they should. It's a legitimate reaction.

 

I bet a lot of others will see him quite differently if not completely differently. It isn't America hating at all, to me. Unless you think we have never made any mistakes. It's a rather remarkable sermon. Talking about verses in the Bible about the Fall of Jerusalem where, after the city was burned, the people went from reverence to thinking of revenge.

 

http://essence.typepad.com/news/2008/03/listen-to-rev-j.html

[UConn James]

People really should take the time to listen to this sermon. The one five days after 9/11 where Wright gave the most heinous "chickens have come home to roost" line, which wasn't his, but the white guy he saw on Fox News the day before. Seriously. It's about 35 minutes long. I truly think many if not most will have a different reaction to him.

 

Some, a lot perhaps, will still hate him for some of the things he says and how he says it. Perhaps they should. It's a legitimate reaction.

 

I bet a lot of others will see him quite differently if not completely differently. It isn't America hating at all, to me. Unless you think we have never made any mistakes. It's a rather remarkable sermon. Talking about verses in the Bible about the Fall of Jerusalem where, after the city was burned, the people went from reverence to thinking of revenge.

 

http://essence.typepad.com/news/2008/03/listen-to-rev-j.html

 

I'm trying to keep an open mind about it all, but it's just oddly stupid to me how every black preacher I have ever seen has to use that same cadence and get caught up in the same crescendo'ed emotional show-biz that invites them to "say things they otherwise wouldn't say" ala USKKKA.

 

What's the worth of having a well-argumented speech's message totally derailed by letting fly some or other stereotype that whitey's to blame for everything. If you're in the pulpit, as Marv Levy says, "Act like you've been there before."

 

I think it just makes people leery about exactly who will have access to the power in the WH. Not that every pres doesn't have weirdos or even crooks that he owes favors to....

[In space no one can hear]

Kelly-

 

Thanks for posting this.

 

I'm all for basing my "judgment" on Wright based on what he actually says.

 

Also, I also like to look at his actions in life, as they speak even louder than his words.

 

1.He is a veteran of The United States Marine Corps and The Navy.

 

2. He has made his life purpose to be spreading The Gospel of Jesus.

 

3. Since he took over his church in a(not well to do area) of Chicago,

 

the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ has grown from 87 members to well over 6,000!....pretty amazing....thats bringing alot of people to Jesus

 

4. His church is a pillar in the community. Trnity UCC provides numerous programs to its members and the community at large that are indispensible.

 

People that throw stones at him should compare their lifes work to his.

[yall]

The main problem I have with this guy is how fast and loose he is with the facts. Especially his misrepresentation of the facts regarding Panama, Grenada, and in other sermons, the spread of HIV/AIDS.

 

In fact, given the amount of money the US has thrown at combating AIDS in Africa, that point is especially irritating. Misinformation like that helps the virus take a foothold in Africa where a good number of Priests and Pastors are telling people that not only did whitey create AIDS, but that condoms are the means by which he spreads it.

 

That type of ignorance is unforgivable, especially when this dude obviously is smart enough to know better.

[Kelly the Dog]

2. He has made his life purpose to be spreading The Gospel of Jesus.

 

3. Since he took over his church in a(not well to do area) of Chicago,

 

the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ has grown from 87 members to well over 6,000!....

4. His church is a pillar in the community. Trnity UCC provides numerous programs to its members and the community at large that are indispensible.

 

People that throw stones at him should compare their lifes work to his.

True. But his opposition would just say it's a lot more of a bad thing. If he's actually preaching hatred it would be worse if more came. But actually listening to his sermon that is not what he was doing at all. I just want people to listen to the whole thing and then decide if he hates America. Some still will and that's their right.

 

To U Conn, there was very little in that sermon that had anything to do with race. The vast majority had nothing at all to do with race.

[UConn James]

True. But his opposition would just say it's a lot more of a bad thing. If he's actually preaching hatred it would be worse if more came. But actually listening to his sermon that is not what he was doing at all. I just want people to listen to the whole thing and then decide if he hates America. Some still will and that's their right.

 

To UConn, there was very little in that sermon that had anything to do with race. The vast majority had nothing at all to do with race.

 

Didn't say that I was talking about this particular sermon you linked to. I listened for about 5 min. before I said to myself, "Self, WTF are you doing listening to this bible-hooey for on a nice spring day?"

 

No doubt that he doesn't always get carried away with the emotion that makes one say really stupid things... but it's pretty discomforting to many people the times he does do it.

 

Obama's speech the other day hit home maybe the most important part --- that people who lived through all that have a hard time letting it go and sometimes speak words as tho things haven't profoundly improved, to wit, to the point that a black man is now a leading presidential candidate.

[blzrul]

When I lived in TX I admit to church-shopping. And it was AMAZING the @#$@#$ that those people said from their bully pulpit. I would flinch. I suppose if someone saw me there they might think I was a wingnut or something for tolerating it. I just never went back, but I didn't know these folks or have any stake in them.

 

Regarding Wright and Obama: the speech in question has some questionable statements, no doubt. As stated herein, most of them were QUOTED by Wright. Also there's no suggestion that there was a long history of hate-mongering on his part. So, say that Obama did have a 20-year relationship with him. If he preached hatred and disunity for those 20 years, I'd wonder how Obama could tolerate it. But there's no evidence he did. So Obama has a long-term relationship with a guy who in his old age is just sick and tired of bad things happening to good people, and he spouts off about it. He doesn't tell people to go out and shoot white folks, riot in the streets or assassinate public officials. He just bitches long and loud. Why should Obama turn his back on him?

 

John McCain has already fired the staffer who found and posted this on YouTube, intentionally stirring up this non-issue. I am not nuts over McCain, but he DOES know what it feels like to be the victim of this kind of crap and I applaud him for his efforts to try to keep this election out of the gutter.

[Kelly the Dog]

The main problem I have with this guy is how fast and loose he is with the facts. Especially his misrepresentation of the facts regarding Panama, Grenada, and in other sermons, the spread of HIV/AIDS.

 

In fact, given the amount of money the US has thrown at combating AIDS in Africa, that point is especially irritating. Misinformation like that helps the virus take a foothold in Africa where a good number of Priests and Pastors are telling people that not only did whitey create AIDS, but that condoms are the means by which he spreads it.

 

That type of ignorance is unforgivable, especially when this dude obviously is smart enough to know better.

If you listen to the sermon, you would know what he was talking about.

 

Exactly what facts did he get wrong about Grenada and Panama? That innocent people died? He wasn't trying to explain the reasons for the bombings. He was saying that there is collateral damage and consequences of them. And that because of our military power, we have done a lot of it. He was talking about all of the innocent people that got killed in the 9/11 attacks. And how members of his congregation would have felt if their family members were the ones killed in the attack. He mentioned over and over how awful and unthinkable and terrible 9/11 was. And now, when we are thinking of revenge, like the people of Jerusalem were after their city was attacked and burned, maybe we should look to God and our families instead. Declare war on poverty instead. Because we are no longer fighting countries and armies anymore, it's a different world.

 

On the aids, thing, I pretty much agree with you. I think that he goes way too far on the origins. Although there are a lot of black people that thoroughly believe it.

 

Of course, there are a lot of black people that thought OJ was innocent.

[yall]

If you listening to the sermon, you would know what he was talking about.

 

Exactly what facts did he get wrong about Grenada and Panama?

 

I fully understand the point he was trying to make, but I hate it wen people use falsehoods to back up their claims. It's the Al Gore example. Yeah, we should be careful how we tread, but don't make sh*t up to prove your point.

 

For starters we didn't 'bomb' Grenada. He makes it seem as though we went into these countries and just started dropping 500lb bombs all wili-nily, which wasn't the case. Also, it wouldn't help his point, so I'm sure that's why he failed to mention that many of the people living in these countries supported US intervention in both cases.

[Johnny Coli]

People really should take the time to listen to this sermon. The one five days after 9/11 where Wright gave the most heinous "chickens have come home to roost" line, which wasn't his, but the white guy he saw on Fox News the day before. Seriously. It's about 35 minutes long. I truly think many if not most will have a different reaction to him.

 

Some, a lot perhaps, will still hate him for some of the things he says and how he says it. Perhaps they should. It's a legitimate reaction.

 

I bet a lot of others will see him quite differently if not completely differently. It isn't America hating at all, to me. Unless you think we have never made any mistakes. It's a rather remarkable sermon. Talking about verses in the Bible about the Fall of Jerusalem where, after the city was burned, the people went from reverence to thinking of revenge.

 

http://essence.typepad.com/news/2008/03/listen-to-rev-j.html

Wow! Finally had the time to sit down and listen to this. I'm not sure I've ever heard a guy so misrepresented by the media in my life. I didn't hear any hate in that sermon. I didn't hear and anti-American rhetoric. For those who choose to listen to it, you hear a man trying to articulate what all Americans were feeling the week the towers were brought down. To the people who have villified this man, you are so far off base on what this man was saying it's hardly worth discussing. You want to talk about injustice. A terrible, terrible injustice has been done to this man.

[erynthered]

Wow! Finally had the time to sit down and listen to this. I'm not sure I've ever heard a guy so misrepresented by the media in my life. I didn't hear any hate in that sermon. I didn't hear and anti-American rhetoric. For those who choose to listen to it, you hear a man trying to articulate what all Americans were feeling the week the towers were brought down. To the people who have villified this man, you are so far off base on what this man was saying it's hardly worth discussing. You want to talk about injustice. A terrible, terrible injustice has been done to this man.

 

 

I'd like to think 60%, no 50% of the country thinks exactly the way you think. No wait. The Dems cant seem to get together on this too.

[Kelly the Dog]

I thought it was obvious and clear but people kept on lying and using it against him, so Obama had to come out and say it again:

 

"One clarification, because I’ve noticed some of the commentary about the speech – it’s been suggested by a number of conservative commentators, but even some that were favorably disposed towards the speech -- that somehow there was a flip-flop or a contradiction between previous statements about not being aware of Rev. Wright’s statements and my statement in the speech that I was aware of controversial statements he’s made.

 

"There’s no contradiction there. So I want to be very clear. I was not aware that he had made some of most offensive statements that had been looping on the internet and on the television news.

 

"I wasn’t aware of the AIDS conspiracy statement, which I think is completely out of line and off the wall.

 

"I wasn’t aware of his statements, 'God damn America' Those statements were not ones that I knew about until the story broke a week and a half ago.

 

"The 9/11 statement I became aware of in the New York Times after I announced my candidacy. And as I said in my previous statement, the reason I did not decide to leave the church was because I saw Rev. Wright retiring.

 

"Now, I was aware of controversial statements. As I said, he has been a fierce critic on occasion of US foreign policy and domestic policy and in fact in my first book 'Dreams of My Father,' and in 'The Audacity of Hope' I quote him making a comment about racism that I think would be considered controversial but I didn’t think was beyond the pale.

 

"So that’s a distinction that I would make. I just wanted to make sure people were clear – I know Joe Klein had a column, for example, that suggested I had admitted something that I didn’t previously, but there’s no contradiction there. I just want to make that as clear as possible."

[blzrul]

I'm trying to keep an open mind about it all, but it's just oddly stupid to me how every black preacher I have ever seen ...

 

And that would be how many?

[OCinBuffalo]

Oh please.

 

The US spread HIV on purpose? Grenada?

 

And the Hiroshima/Nagasaki vs. 9/11 comparison is some of the most ignorant revisionist history ever foist upon ANYBODY.

 

Maybe if he made his point without this factually bankrupt bull sh--, this great "injustice" wouldnt have been committed.

Why bother?

 

The "everything liberals say no matter how ridiculous is right" apologists are in full force in this thread, busy "learning" from a blatant idiot. Of course, it is their willingness to "learn" from the silly and/or grinningly pulling up a chair when boneheads like Sean Penn "share their views" that makes them morally superior to the rest of us. Or, haven't you been paying attention to their mantra for the last 10 years?

 

Look I don't care what this guy says, it should have nothing to do with this campaign. It's not like Hillary can control what her crazy-ass brother does, or can control whatever recent stupidity comes out of her husband's mouth either = strange because I always thought Bill was the "expert" politician. We have issues like dealing with Iran, Iraq, and the economy to think about and instead we are spending time thinking about this guy. WTF? . It's like thinking about what clothes to wear when your house is on fire.

 

I'm already bored with this story and I certainly don't need liberals trying to spin it into this preacher's blather suddenly turning into FDR's fireside chats. Move on already. I blame the press for following it because the Hannity's of the world wouldn't let it die in the first place, even when everyone knows why he won't let it die. I also blame dumbass Obama's people for not getting him out of that church ages ago, but, I wonder if this is the level of incompetence we can expect from them going forward. That's certainly not encouraging.

 

But, I'm sure the usual suspects won't miss the chance to get all self-righteous on this...imagine my delight.

[SilverNRed]

Look I don't care what this guy says, it should have nothing to do with this campaign. It's not like Hillary can control what her crazy-ass brother does, or can control whatever recent stupidity comes out of her husband's mouth either = strange because I always thought Bill was the "expert" politician. We have issues like dealing with Iran, Iraq, and the economy to think about and instead we are spending time thinking about this guy. WTF? . It's like thinking about what clothes to wear when your house is on fire.

 

I'm already bored with this story and I certainly don't need liberals trying to spin it into this preacher's blather suddenly turning into FDR's fireside chats. Move on already. I blame the press for following it because the Hannity's of the world wouldn't let it die in the first place, even when everyone knows why he won't let it die. I also blame dumbass Obama's people for not getting him out of that church ages ago, but, I wonder if this is the level of incompetence we can expect from them going forward. That's certainly not encouraging.

The story is important because "Obama's people" shouldn't have had to have been the ones to tell him to stop attending and donating money to the church run by the crazy racist, paranoid crackpot.

 

He had 20 years to stand up to a bigot and he didn't bother. If that doesn't punch a hole in his magic persona, I don't know what will.

[Kelly the Dog]

Oh please.

 

The US spread HIV on purpose? Grenada?

 

And the Hiroshima/Nagasaki vs. 9/11 comparison is some of the most ignorant revisionist history ever foist upon ANYBODY.

 

Maybe if he made his point without this factually bankrupt bull sh--, this great "injustice" wouldnt have been committed.

He was talking about innocent people that were killed as collateral damage from our governments action. That's it. And there have been more of theirs hurt in these bombings than ours. He wasnt talking about right or wrong, or that we shouldnt go to war (he was a decorated Marine), or anything other than we bomb people, too, innocents die (which they do), and there is a long history of it. I think those are facts.

[Chilly]

He was talking about innocent people that were killed as collateral damage from our governments action. That's it. And there have been more of theirs hurt in these bombings than ours. He wasnt talking about right or wrong, or that we shouldnt go to war (he was a decorated Marine), or anything other than we bomb people, too, innocents die (which they do), and there is a long history of it. I think those are facts.

 

So, he didn't say “The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”?

[Kelly the Dog]

Just becuase those are "facts", that doesnt lessen my opinion that it was a totally irresponsible and downright ridiculous comparison to make. IMHO, it makes the original comments much, much worse, becuase he's giving even MORE credence to Bin Laden's rationale for the 9/11 attacks, by putting them on equal footing with wartime activities.

 

How can anybody in their right mind compare the military activities during wartime, especially ones to out-of-the-the-blue terrorist attacks?

That's TOTALLY untrue. He wasn't given ANY credence whatsoever to bin Laden's attacks. He wasn't equating them to wartime activities outside including all wars of all time for all sides as under the same banner. Over and over he said how unthinkable the 9/11 attacks were.

 

He was talking about people that lost their mothers and their children around the world from the cycle of violence. That's it. And that we should look inside ourselves, look at our relationship to God and our relationship to our families in this time of reflection instead of immediately looking to revenge. Sure, he was saying that we are NOT ALWAYS the good guy. He started out saying the country was founded on terrorism, taking the land from the Indians. And there has been a cycle of violence ever since. We hit them, they hit us, we hit them (it doesn't matter who, he was talking about ALL wars from the beginning of our existence, good and bad, he wasn't taking sides at all.

 

The HIV thing is really way too far out there, IMO.

 

Oh, and by the way, doesn't God damn all the countless millions of Americans who do not take Jesus Christ as their savior? I'm just sayin'. (Except under certain minority readings of the Bible where God may grant Heaven to a select few who didn't?)