Joe Miner Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 Going into the 2007 offseason, the thoughts of many around here was: McCargo was a bust and Marv made a mistake moving up to draft him, and Youboty was up and coming and would win the #2 job, and at the worst be our nickel back. Well, 2007 played out, and McCargo was still Triplett's backup, but showed some promise at times in a few games. Youboty didn't win the #2 CB spot, and they mixed Whitner and the other safeties into the game in nickel situations. Now, in the 2008 offseason, with Triplett and Webster gone, the pairing of McCargo and Stroud is said to be a fixed D-line, bordering on terrific, and Youboty is the odd man out at CB that will never be a starting corner. Now, I'm not in a location that I actually get to watch (on TV) many Bills games a year. I have to keep up with them on gamedays through the internet, and any replayed games on the NFL Network, so I can't really be a good judge of player ability. But my question is for those that know football, and are able to analyze players, Is McCargo really as good as we're hoping, and is Youboty really as bad as we're making him out to be? IMO, these are still 2 really young guys, that due to circumstances missed most of their first season in the NFL, and really only have 1 year of experience. Is McCargo good enough to pass up a early round DT, and is Youboty bad enough to think that an early round rookie will come in and play better than him?
BuffaloBilliever Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 McCargo had flashes of greatness. He seemed to be in the backfield a lot and made some clutch red zone plays, along with making Willis look terrible in the Baltimore game. Ashton has shown little. He had promise his rookie year, but this year he showed that he lacks ball and player awareness. Another year, too early to make predictions on a young career, but it's make or break for both this time.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 Going into the 2007 offseason, the thoughts of many around here was: McCargo was a bust and Marv made a mistake moving up to draft him, and Youboty was up and coming and would win the #2 job, and at the worst be our nickel back. Well, 2007 played out, and McCargo was still Triplett's backup, but showed some promise at times in a few games. Youboty didn't win the #2 CB spot, and they mixed Whitner and the other safeties into the game in nickel situations. Now, in the 2008 offseason, with Triplett and Webster gone, the pairing of McCargo and Stroud is said to be a fixed D-line, bordering on terrific, and Youboty is the odd man out at CB that will never be a starting corner. Now, I'm not in a location that I actually get to watch (on TV) many Bills games a year. I have to keep up with them on gamedays through the internet, and any replayed games on the NFL Network, so I can't really be a good judge of player ability. But my question is for those that know football, and are able to analyze players, Is McCargo really as good as we're hoping, and is Youboty really as bad as we're making him out to be? IMO, these are still 2 really young guys, that due to circumstances missed most of their first season in the NFL, and really only have 1 year of experience. Is McCargo good enough to pass up a early round DT, and is Youboty bad enough to think that an early round rookie will come in and play better than him? First to answer your questions on McCargo. He has a nose for the ball and seems to be able to penetrate the line and blow up plays when he's in there. That being said, we will see if he can do this as a starter. He isn't yet tested to hold up for a whole game but in our style D he doesn't have to as we rotate DT often. So yes McCargo is good enough to pass on a DT in the 1st (although if Ellis or Dorsey miraculously fall I say grab'em). As far as Youboty goes, there's no question really about his talent just his toughness. If he can stay healthy and grow in this D he might be a solid starter one day.
nucci Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 With increased playing time, McCargo should be a big playmaker. Youboty has shown a little, INT against Eagles and some tackling ability but he needs to show he can play. I think the talent is there but so far he has not done what was expected.
Lori Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 By the end of the year, more than a few of the people who do get to see all the games were wondering why Tripplett was still starting ahead of McCargo. Count me in that group. Youboty? Good play here and there, but he still hasn't managed to stay off the injured list long enough to make an impact.
YOOOOOO Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 I'm not sold on either yet to be honest.... I like McCargo and he seems like the perfect fit for this defense...he def knows how to disrupt things in the backfield....but can he do it on a regular basis, as a starter...we will see... As far Youboty I was high on him coming out of college...but he's lacking something right now...cuz he just isnt that same high level intensity player he was at OSU...nagging injuries, desire who knows...it just isnt there...
JStranger76 Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 I tried watching McCargo a lot this past season, so I'll comment on him. In his role as a second wave DT, I thought he did alright, and believe he has a good fight on his hands if he wants to outplay this new cat, Spencer Johnson. When I watched McCargo on passing downs, he really didn't stand out much and I rarely noticed any push at all. Vs. the run, he looked fairly quick off the ball ( his best asset IMO ) and had some nice tackles for a loss. The thing is, on most of his tackles for losses, he was basically unblocked and came down the line of scrimmage because of his decent burst and was able to make the tackle. I never seen him cleanly beat his man one on one and just didn't see anything that tells me he can dominate any offensive lineman. I still have hope for him though because you gotta remember, he had to have his ankle cleaned up and wasn't cleared for full training until right before training camp. There is NO WAY he could have been close to the best possible shape he could have been in. Barring injury, we will definitely see if trading up for him was worth it this year.
The Dean Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 By the end of the year, more than a few of the people who do get to see all the games were wondering why Tripplett was still starting ahead of McCargo. Count me in that group. Youboty? Good play here and there, but he still hasn't managed to stay off the injured list long enough to make an impact. That's really the only thing you can say about Youboty, so far. In fact, when he has played, he has looked pretty good, IMO. The problem is, he hasn't be healthy enough to play (or, as some have suggested, he may not be tough enough to play when only minimally hurt). With all of his attributes and what I have seen from his cameo appearances, I think he could easily be one of the starting CBs this year. But, I don't want to jinx it by predicting it, again.
Joe Miner Posted March 19, 2008 Author Posted March 19, 2008 That's really the only thing you can say about Youboty, so far. In fact, when he has played, he has looked pretty good, IMO. The problem is, he hasn't be healthy enough to play (or, as some have suggested, he may not be tough enough to play when only minimally hurt). With all of his attributes and what I have seen from his cameo appearances, I think he could easily be one of the starting CBs this year. But, I don't want to jinx it by predicting it, again. That's good. Because that was a concern of mine, that even in the little playing time that he got, was it enough to say, "Holy cow, get him off the field, he sucks" or "Hey, this kid could be pretty good." Might I throw out that nagging minor injuries for an inexperienced kid could be enough to make the coaching staff keep him out of games, where they could at least use healthy veterans of lesser ability to at least not make mistakes that minor injuries could compound. As in, a nagging hammy making you're closing speed a little slower, which means a guy that is out of position, isn't likely to be able to make up for it with his athleticism as easily. Therefore start a healthy vet, who hopefully won't make the out of position rookie mistake. The few clips of McCargo I got to see, were impressive. I think he has a lot of potential, and playing next to a Marcus Stroud should only benefit him even more. I just wonder if it would be a mistake to think our D-line was "fixed", and not try to bolster it some more.
Pyrite Gal Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 With increased playing time, McCargo should be a big playmaker. Youboty has shown a little, INT against Eagles and some tackling ability but he needs to show he can play. I think the talent is there but so far he has not done what was expected. Exactly in terms of McCargo as time playing seems to be the missing element for his productivity thus far rather than some sense he does not have the talent to become a good player. McCargo's story apparently is that he really saw limited PT in college and really gained his lofty draft position with a few outstanding performance and the fact it was a thin year at DT (there was no DT even taken in the 2nd round in that draft I believe). He got a slow start as he had some bad technique issues that allowed him to be easily defeated by vet OL players with far less talent or even strength because he could not get leverage to apply his greater strength when he was locked up. In college he was quicker than many opponents and never got locked up, but it is a different story in the NFL where even the back-ups have equal talent and speed to the college players who started against him. He actually was already beginning to show early signs of progress as a rookie when he got injured and forced on to IR. He began to show more progress last year, but still relies a bit too much on wanting to make a speed move and blow by the opposing blocker rather than emphasizing learning and applying good technique, but he should learn both how to actually blow past opponents as he watches more film or exercise good technique and at least fill running lanes when he is locked up by an OL player. Youbouty is a bit of a cipher in that his career in his two brief years has been an unusual one. First, he came out a year earlier than many thought he should have. His competitive spirit, physical play, and good size earned him the thought that he would go in the 1st round if he spent another year at CB university, Ohio St. However, he came out a year early into a fairly competitive WR draft. He was a perfect pick for the Bills as he dropped to rd 3 because of his likely needing a year and because there were other CBs of likely lesser talent but who were ready to play in the NFL on day 1. It got even weirder for him as just after the draft his single-parent Mom died and left him as the oldest child and clear breadwinner amongst the kids (perhaps he left college early because he could feel the role he would be thrust into). His first pre-season was lost, but he actually showed good talent in that he went from a late arrival to actually starting for the Bills in a win against the Jets where Youbouty logged significant time in a D which confused the weak-armed by cagey Chad Pennington. Youbouty played a role in that game of filling in as a starter due to the thinness of the Bills at LB, and the 5 DB set composed of solid tacklers like Youbouty fooled Pennington all day. Youbouty proved to be valuable to the Bills when used in this tricky way, but did not have the depth of experience to be relied upon as a fulltime starter his rookie year. Nevertheless he showed some good pop as a gunner on ST and he went into last season with hopes (though it was still to early for reasonable expectation) that he would take the starter role at CB across from McGee. Unfortunately this was not to be as he looked more like a rookie out there (which in many ways he was as he actually came out a year early and his first year was quite distracted if not lost in many ways). Youbouty again showed flashes of aggressive quality play on ST, but never really showed enough to beat out a series of vets (Webster, Thomas) who beat him out but went down to injury and eventually vet Jabari Greer who surprised most by showing in regular season good play he had only shown in pre-season earlier. Can Youbouty make a name for himself this year? Sure, easily. This D was built for someone of his size and competitiveness with an emphasis on short zone press coverage by the CB. In college he was said to be very strong facing the QB but a needed some work running downfield with his back to the QB. In our Cover 2, he basically has short zone responsibility on pass plays and if we have a potent rush he should be able to engage the WR quickly. Even the tendency he showed in college to look first into the backfield for the run rather than begin cheating backward for the pass is a tendency which should hold him in good stead with the run play containment duty which is one the primary obligations of the CB in our D. With his life more settled, good competition for the #2 or nickel back role from Greer and new addition James, and plenty of important responsibilities against folks like Moss and Welker, this will be a test for Youbouty but will be one he might step up and command a key role for the Bills.
Captain Hindsight Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 When Youboty started after Webster was injured he did play well i thought. He just got hurt and gree came in and played well. No reason to change it up. Same thing happens at every position most famously at QB, we just dont hear about this battle that often. Don't forget he had a pick to end the season last year. and its only year 3. All ive been reading the last couple weeks is learning curves for corners. Maybe this is Youbotys
MarkyMannn Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 When Youboty started after Webster was injured he did play well i thought. He just got hurt and gree came in and played well. No reason to change it up. Same thing happens at every position most famously at QB, we just dont hear about this battle that often. Don't forget he had a pick to end the season last year. and its only year 3. All ive been reading the last couple weeks is learning curves for corners. Maybe this is Youbotys Gimme a break with the learning curve. See that WR lined up across from you? Stick with him. Oh and look back when the ball is in the air. There he's trained. Is that simplistic? Sure, but it also isn't rocket science
Hazed and Amuzed Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 Gimme a break with the learning curve. See that WR lined up across from you? Stick with him. Oh and look back when the ball is in the air. There he's trained. Is that simplistic? Sure, but it also isn't rocket science Have you ever played corner? It's def. not that easy. You have to learn coverage schemes and zones. That's like saying all a WR has to do is run out there and catch the ball.
Joe Miner Posted March 19, 2008 Author Posted March 19, 2008 Have you ever played corner? It's def. not that easy. You have to learn coverage schemes and zones. That's like saying all a WR has to do is run out there and catch the ball. Pfft...You have to know when to yell "I'm open!!!" as well. Sheesh
Hazed and Amuzed Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 Pfft...You have to know when to yell "I'm open!!!" as well. Sheesh Don't forget to yell " Here!! Here!! Over HEEEEEEREE!!! "
YOOOOOO Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 Gimme a break with the learning curve. See that WR lined up across from you? Stick with him. Oh and look back when the ball is in the air. There he's trained. Is that simplistic? Sure, but it also isn't rocket science i it really that simple.... Of course not... we dont play man...usually... so its alil more complicated then stick the "WR lined up across from you"
BillsD#1in2008 Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 simple as this MCcargo- when he played he got into the backfield and was our best DT along with Kyle Williams,plus Stroud is only going to make him that much better Youboty-Cant tackle,gets beat to often i think he could still turn out good but he needs to become quicker and more physical because he has the size. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stroud for Pro Bowl 2008
Peter Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 As far as I am concerned, this is Youboty's make or break year. He has not shown me too much up to this point. He gets a pass for his rookie year given what happened to his mother. Last year, however, was a year for him to at least begin to show us that he can be a productive and reliable player. My recollection is that he got beat a lot when he was in the game. He looked fairly awkward and lost out there at times. I really hope that he is taking this off season seriously and goes into the OTA's, mini-camps, training camp, and the regular season ready to show us why we drafted him. If he comes to play, he could be a real asset to the team.
Astrobot Posted March 19, 2008 Posted March 19, 2008 By the end of the year, more than a few of the people who do get to see all the games were wondering why Tripplett was still starting ahead of McCargo. Count me in that group. Youboty? Good play here and there, but he still hasn't managed to stay off the injured list long enough to make an impact. Exactly on McCargo/Tripplett! If it was looking at game film that made us get rid of Tripplett, why didn't the coaching staff see that film before now? Belicheat was making adjustments at halftime after seeing film... When we have Youboty there for all the minicamps, training camp, and preseason games, I think we'll have an idea about how he fits, or doesn't. Same with whoever we draft at CB and S, etc., but a sequential learner needs to learn things in sequence. That didn't happen for Youboty.
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