I'm converted

[tennesseeboy]

Although I still like Okoye, and am sure Peterson or Lynch are blue chippers...I have to look at which of the blue chippers will help us most. With Willis in the middle we will be better off in the linebacker corps than we were last year and we will probably have a much better defense even with the loss of clements. Spikes is injury prone and declining and Fletcher (loved his attitude) was not able to make the plays necessary for an effective cover-2. Our existing DT's might very well step up to the plate this year. Running backs? I don't think Peterson is going to fall to us...and I don't think Lynch is going to contribute to our offense in any sense the way Willis will contribute to our defense.

 

Willis is the guy I think we ought to pick. Assuming he's available at 12 That's the best short term pick. Solidifying the Middle Linebacker position? Pretty priceless in the long run as well.

[MDH]

Although I still like Okoye, and am sure Peterson or Lynch are blue chippers...I have to look at which of the blue chippers will help us most. With Willis in the middle we will be better off in the linebacker corps than we were last year and we will probably have a much better defense even with the loss of clements. Spikes is injury prone and declining and Fletcher (loved his attitude) was not able to make the plays necessary for an effective cover-2. Our existing DT's might very well step up to the plate this year. Running backs? I don't think Peterson is going to fall to us...and I don't think Lynch is going to contribute to our offense in any sense the way Willis will contribute to our defense.

 

Willis is the guy I think we ought to pick. Assuming he's available at 12 That's the best short term pick. Solidifying the Middle Linebacker position? Pretty priceless in the long run as well.

 

While I think Willis will likely be better than Fletch in 2-3 years there is no way he comes in and immediately upgrades the position. MLB is a demanding position and some growing pains should be expected. Fletch was a flawed player but there is nobody who will be available via the draft (or FA) that will immediately upgrade the position. With the exodus of several vets on D people need to get more realistic about what these young players are going to bring to the table. They bring the possibility of long term stability not immediate upgrades.

 

It's this type of thinking that leads the woe is me posters to start threads like, "Is Willis a disapointment?" after week 6.

[mead107]

Although I still like Okoye, and am sure Peterson or Lynch are blue chippers...I have to look at which of the blue chippers will help us most. With Willis in the middle we will be better off in the linebacker corps than we were last year and we will probably have a much better defense even with the loss of clements. Spikes is injury prone and declining and Fletcher (loved his attitude) was not able to make the plays necessary for an effective cover-2. Our existing DT's might very well step up to the plate this year. Running backs? I don't think Peterson is going to fall to us...and I don't think Lynch is going to contribute to our offense in any sense the way Willis will contribute to our defense.

 

Willis is the guy I think we ought to pick. Assuming he's available at 12 That's the best short term pick. Solidifying the Middle Linebacker position? Pretty priceless in the long run as well.

 

I had to look twice , I though you said perverted ,

[tennesseeboy]

I respect your point of view and you certainly raise a valid point. However, it is possible the kid may have an AJ Hawk kind of year and may grow in the position. The big issue is clearly run stopping and a good part of that is speed and raw talent. Okoye, I think could step in with less of a learning curve, but I think our critical need is for a good middle linebacker. Willis is ready to step in pretty much in the same way Brian Urlacher or Zach Thomas or AJ Hawk did in their rookie years and make a real contribution. We should only hope he is in the same class as the three mentioned!

[tombstone56]

Although I still like Okoye, and am sure Peterson or Lynch are blue chippers...I have to look at which of the blue chippers will help us most. With Willis in the middle we will be better off in the linebacker corps than we were last year and we will probably have a much better defense even with the loss of clements. Spikes is injury prone and declining and Fletcher (loved his attitude) was not able to make the plays necessary for an effective cover-2. Our existing DT's might very well step up to the plate this year. Running backs? I don't think Peterson is going to fall to us...and I don't think Lynch is going to contribute to our offense in any sense the way Willis will contribute to our defense.

 

Willis is the guy I think we ought to pick. Assuming he's available at 12 That's the best short term pick. Solidifying the Middle Linebacker position? Pretty priceless in the long run as well.

 

finally , a voice from the darkside.. I ve been telling people this since november!!! ,,although Willis will have a learning curve he will upgrade the position from day 1

[Matt in KC]

finally , a voice from the darkside.. I ve been telling people this since november!!! ,,although Willis will have a learning curve he will upgrade the position from day 1

Many people whined that London was overlooked for the pro bowl... again. Now, you and a few other posters think that Willis could come in and be an immediate upgrade. That is quite a difference of opinion. It's about as big as we ever see on the board. It's much bigger than the (McGahee | Gandy | Bledsoe | M Williams) is a bust vs. relax, he just needs better players around him arguments which are the norm.

 

Sorry, I don't have much to add to the conversation. I'm just pointing out how extreme your position is. I agree with MDH; and even if Willis comes to the Bills in the best shape of his life, he has little chance of contributing at the same level as Fletcher right away. We should be very happy if he reaches that level by the end of his first year, and ecstatic if he passes it. A college kid coming in and being better than all but 5-10 athletes at his position in the NFL is phenomenal.

[tennesseeboy]

All year folks who know the cover=2 have put the onus for stopping the run game on the linebackers. We sucked at stopping the run game. Fletcher "shoulda" gone to the pro-bowl? Shoulda and 56 pennies will get you a cup of senior citizen coffee at Mickey D's. Assuming stopping the run game is the linebackers main job in the cover-2 we sucked last year. Can a rookie linebacker make a difference? Look at who was named defensive rookie of the year this century. six out of seven were linebackers-Julius Peppers being the only exception. If Fletcher and Spikes were what we needed we'd have kept them. However if Fletcher and Spikes were what we needed we'd have been in the playoffs. Apparently DJ agrees. Go with Willis

[NewEra]

..and I don't think Lynch is going to contribute to our offense in any sense the way Willis will contribute to our defense.

 

youre entitled to your opinion, but Lynch can run inside and outside, has better hands than any other back in the draft, and can even throw the ball. seems to me like he fits Fairchilds offense. Willis, if he plays mlb in the cover 2, may not be as ideal as people would like to think. While he is fast, pass coverage isnt one of his strengths, and the mlb plays such a major component in the cover 2's pass D. Don't get me wrong , I love Willis, but he may not be as "ideal" as we think.

[Matt in KC]

All year folks who know the cover=2 have put the onus for stopping the run game on the linebackers. We sucked at stopping the run game. Fletcher "shoulda" gone to the pro-bowl? Shoulda and 56 pennies will get you a cup of senior citizen coffee at Mickey D's. Assuming stopping the run game is the linebackers main job in the cover-2 we sucked last year. Can a rookie linebacker make a difference? Look at who was named defensive rookie of the year this century. six out of seven were linebackers-Julius Peppers being the only exception. If Fletcher and Spikes were what we needed we'd have kept them. However if Fletcher and Spikes were what we needed we'd have been in the playoffs. Apparently DJ agrees. Go with Willis

I'm only defending Fletcher, and only compared to a rookie, not all of our LBs. I personally think our run D deficiency was mainly due to three things: poor play by our DTs, injuries at LB (Crowell, Spikes), and "rookie" mistakes (many made by our vets!) as players got used to the NFL and our new defense.

 

Fletcher and Spikes were not the solution long-term and that's not what I'm saying. I think if our 1st rd LB plays on the outside, he may well be an upgrade over Spikes this year. If he plays in the middle, it's not likely he'll be better than LFB this year, but I'd love it. I really hope we do draft Willis. But, I think he's only likely to be more of a heavy-hitter than LF-B in his first year, not a better all-around player.

 

I do think that LFB had an "off" year, even though he recorded 146 tackles, 4 INTs, and 7 passes defended. He was very durable and played at a high level for us every game, and was perhaps our most consistent player over his years on the team. He might be starting his decline, so signing him for 5 years was not wise IMO.

 

The MLB is singled out for deep pass coverage. Yes, they need to be all-stars and read the plays, including play action and draws, and either get deep or crash the LOS. I personally think that Fletcher cheated toward pass coverage to help protect the rookie safeties but this cost him a bit in run coverage (more downfield).

 

Now that I'm getting into a Fletcher-Baker rant, let me throw this in: the most common criticism I've heard of London is that his 146 tackles came too far down the field on running plays. How the heck did the opponents' RBs get so far down the field without hitting other defenders? And we criticize Baker for being the only Bill there (recording the vast majority of his tackles solo)??

 

In the next year we'll get to see if London's stat's were largely a product of him being the MLB in our defense, or if he racked up higher numbers than his replacement due to something else (talent?).

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

The reason Fletcher is no longer on the team is not due to his inability to shed blocks which led to inadequate angles on run downs. Which imo had more to do with a below average dt rotation which should be improved this season (crosses fingers) with walker and a healthy mccargo. It's mostly due to his age. Odds are by the time this team is ready to compete Fletcher will really be up there in age, and in a defense relying on speed will likely lose a good portion of his quickness. Statisticaly Fletcher had a very good season last year paticularly in pass coverage and when not engaged by tacklers can deliver very punishing form tackles.

 

I can't really be convinced it was anything other then age as the reason he was not re-signed had he been 26 instead of 32 I believe he would most certinaly be a buffalo bill. As Far as Patrick Willis goes he has everything in a guy you'd like to build a defense around, good speed, movement, and range, good size, competative seems to have a good character with top notch football instincts and a very good tackler. While I personaly am intrigued more by the idea of getting Jon Beason I would not be dissapointed in the least with Patrick Willis

[Kelly the Dog]

The reason Fletcher is no longer on the team is not due to his inability to shed blocks which led to inadequate angles on run downs. Which imo had more to do with a below average dt rotation which should be improved this season (crosses fingers) with walker and a healthy mccargo. It's mostly due to his age. Odds are by the time this team is ready to compete Fletcher will really be up there in age, and in a defense relying on speed will likely lose a good portion of his quickness. Statisticaly Fletcher had a very good season last year paticularly in pass coverage and when not engaged by tacklers can deliver very punishing form tackles.

 

I can't really be convinced it was anything other then age as the reason he was not re-signed had he been 26 instead of 32 I believe he would most certinaly be a buffalo bill. As Far as Patrick Willis goes he has everything in a guy you'd like to build a defense around, good speed, movement, and range, good size, competative seems to have a good character with top notch football instincts and a very good tackler. While I personaly am intrigued more by the idea of getting Jon Beason I would not be dissapointed in the least with Patrick Willis

Good post but I think in Fletcher's case it was both. I agree that if he were 26 he would have been re-signed. But I also agree that he couldn't get off blocks, and he was getting dragged for 2-3 yards a lot more last year than previous years, and that may have been due to age. But it still means he wasn't getting off blocks, he wasn't getting to lanes, and he wasn't attacking the line and making sticks so RBs were stopped in their tracks. IMO, he was a much surer tackler in previous years than he was last year, regardless of the number.

[Gordio]

One thing about Fletcher, in his 5yrs in buffalo, I can never remember him blowing up a play behind the line of scrimmage. Im sure he did, but I dont have any recollections. Compared to Spikes, where I remember numerous times he wreaked havoc in the backfield. Just an observation I guess. I strongly disagree with a couple of the posters saying that there is going to be a dropoff in play @ mlb if Willis gets drafted by the bills. If Willis is a good as alot of people think he is, as far as Im concerned there will be a significant upgrade. I am of the opinion that the only guy the bills lost this offseason that is really going to be felt is Clements. Hopefully youboty could step up.

[Paup 1995MVP]

All year folks who know the cover=2 have put the onus for stopping the run game on the linebackers. We sucked at stopping the run game. Fletcher "shoulda" gone to the pro-bowl? Shoulda and 56 pennies will get you a cup of senior citizen coffee at Mickey D's. Assuming stopping the run game is the linebackers main job in the cover-2 we sucked last year. Can a rookie linebacker make a difference? Look at who was named defensive rookie of the year this century. six out of seven were linebackers-Julius Peppers being the only exception. If Fletcher and Spikes were what we needed we'd have kept them. However if Fletcher and Spikes were what we needed we'd have been in the playoffs. Apparently DJ agrees. Go with Willis

 

 

Dude, I totally agree. I have seen several clips of Willis making plays all over the field and believe that he is the real deal. If you watch replays of the Bills games from last year you will see that Fletcher is almost always chasing the runner down the field and not standing people up at or near the line of scrimmage. Fletcher was good in pass coverage on a lot of underneath routes, but got beat A LOT on the deep middle passes to the tight end. I think Willis is the type of player you build your defense around. In my mind he is definitely an upgrade to our linebacking corp.

 

Too many people got caught up in the Fletcher hype. But the past two years our run defense has been just abysmal. I think back to the Bills-Raiders game two years ago in Oakland when they just ran the ball down our throats. The Redskins can have Fletcher. I will take Willis in the first and Pittmon or trade for Turner with our second.