San-O Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 I really think the D-line needs more help. Buffalo finished 28'th against the run last year. 140 yards / game. Adding Darwin Walker is not going to propel this unit to the top of the league in this category, or even the middle of the pack. IMO.
silvermike Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Where would the new DL go? At DE, you have Kelsay just signed to a new deal, and Schobel returning from Hawaii. They're backed up by Hargrove and Denney - maybe Ryan could be improved, but do you want to spend a first day pick on a backup DE? Then inside, you have McCargo returning from an injury, the newly acquired Walker, Kyle Williams having broken out last year and then Larry Tripplett. Again, what spot on the depth char are you looking to fill? Williams/McCargo at the nose or Tripplett/Walker at the 3-tech?
San-O Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 Where would the new DL go? At DE, you have Kelsay just signed to a new deal, and Schobel returning from Hawaii. They're backed up by Hargrove and Denney - maybe Ryan could be improved, but do you want to spend a first day pick on a backup DE? Then inside, you have McCargo returning from an injury, the newly acquired Walker, Kyle Williams having broken out last year and then Larry Tripplett. Again, what spot on the depth char are you looking to fill? Williams/McCargo at the nose or Tripplett/Walker at the 3-tech? An interior D-lineman I would expect. You really think adding Walker is going to move this unit up in the run defense area? Again, Buffalo finished 28-th in the leaugue. Where do you actually think they will be this year with the current group? Honestly? 25 - 20 in the NFL?
Paup 1995MVP Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 An interior D-lineman I would expect. You really think adding Walker is going to move this unit up in the run defense area? Again, Buffalo finished 28-th in the leaugue. Where do you actually think they will be this year with the current group? Honestly? 25 - 20 in the NFL? Man, I agree we need a BIG wide body in the middle. I hope we take Alan Branch somewhere in the first round. I think run defense is still our achilles heel.
San-O Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 Man, I agree we need a BIG wide body in the middle. I hope we take Alan Branch somewhere in the first round. I think run defense is still our achilles heel. As do I, however that is why I wanted to do a poll. I think we may be in the minority. Just can't see this current group, even with Walker, being that much different than last year.
Fan in Chicago Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 I really think the D-line needs more help. Buffalo finished 28'th against the run last year. 140 yards / game. Adding Darwin Walker is not going to propel this unit to the top of the league in this category, or even the middle of the pack. IMO. Tough to vote given the choices so I chose not to. We need LB, RB and CB as primary needs. However, if a very good prospect on the DL is available (not DE), a prospect better than the choices for the high need positions, then we should draft one in rounds 2 or 3
San-O Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 Tough to vote given the choices so I chose not to. We need LB, RB and CB as primary needs. However, if a very good prospect on the DL is available (not DE), a prospect better than the choices for the high need positions, then we should draft one in rounds 2 or 3 Yeah, sorry about that. I should have included an option not to draft a D-lineman at all. We do have 4 picks day one. Can't edit the poll.
JStranger76 Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 I'd love Jamal Anderson, Okoye, or Branch in the first round. Hargrove and Denny are replacable, and our DT's could still use a lot of help. I VOTED YES!!!!! We could also use Jamal Anderson on both ends until he could take over for Schobel in a couple years full time.
tennesseeboy Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Either Okoye in round 1 or Justin Harrel in round 2. We go nowhere if we don't plug the run. And both of them can rush the passer as well as stop the run.
apuszczalowski Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 Improve the LB's and the run defence will improve. The Cover 2 does not rely on the DT's stopping the run like a normal defence, they are supposed to penetrate the backfield and disrupt the play, the LB's are supposed to make the hits at the LOS to stop the run. Thats why the Cover 2 has smaller DT's then a regular Defence. Look at Indy last year, just as bad stopping the run as Buffalo, they magically improved when their one LB came back from Injury. Last year Fletcher was making the hits, but they were downfield and not at the LOS like they are supposed to be, thats why he was allowed to walk
San-O Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 Improve the LB's and the run defence will improve. The Cover 2 does not rely on the DT's stopping the run like a normal defence, they are supposed to penetrate the backfield and disrupt the play, the LB's are supposed to make the hits at the LOS to stop the run. Thats why the Cover 2 has smaller DT's then a regular Defence. Look at Indy last year, just as bad stopping the run as Buffalo, they magically improved when their one LB came back from Injury. Last year Fletcher was making the hits, but they were downfield and not at the LOS like they are supposed to be, thats why he was allowed to walk So, you believe drafting a stud LB to start will improve the run defense from 28'th to what?
Fewell733 Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 So, you believe drafting a stud LB to start will improve the run defense from 28'th to what? But drafting a DT or DE that will be on the field maybe once a set of down is going to improve the run D next year? Your argument cuts both ways.
San-O Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 But drafting a DT or DE that will be on the field maybe once a set of down is going to improve the run D next year? Your argument cuts both ways. ??? Don't know what you are talking about. The question, is by NOT drafting a D-lineman day one and drafting a LB day one, going to improve the run from 28'th to what? Seems pretty straight forward, I actually think we need both.
apuszczalowski Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 So, you believe drafting a stud LB to start will improve the run defense from 28'th to what? i don't know. I can't say until I see the team hit the field. But like Jauron733 said, drafting a DT that will see the field once every couple of downs is going to help more? All I know is that right now, the Bills need a stud LB and stud RB more then they need depth at DT Drafting a DT or DE, or a o-linemen right now is a luxury pick when you look at the teams needs. The are low at LB and RB missing a starting RB and 1 starting LB, and are low at CB. They have made moves in FA and Trades that have addressed the lines for now, the team needs to see what they can do together first before they know they need to improve them.
San-O Posted April 18, 2007 Author Posted April 18, 2007 i don't know. I can't say until I see the team hit the field. But like Jauron733 said, drafting a DT that will see the field once every couple of downs is going to help more? Well, yeah. Can't get much worse than 28'th in the league. But I see your point. That's why I created a poll.
ndirish1978 Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 and when the RBs break through the line who exactly is supposed to tackle them in order to imprive out 28th ranked D against the run, Coy Wire? We need 2 playmaking LBs and a RB before we even think about drafting D line on the first day.
Pyrite Gal Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 So, you believe drafting a stud LB to start will improve the run defense from 28'th to what? The question is actually whether drafting a run plugger DT is the method this team will use to stop the run. Actually it is not and unless there is some unexpected desire by the Bills to simply take the best player available because an Okoye falls to #12 I doubt they will go through the pain of deciding whether to cut Triplett who just signed last year, McCargo who just drafted in the 1st round last year, Walker who they just signed, or Williams last year's starter whom they just drafted. In other words this drafting of a run plugger ain't gonna happen. As described above the only DE in any way at risk is Hargrove and a DE to replace him is not going to fit the run plugger model you are talking about The plan actually is to have this unit greatly improve against the run. Based on how the Cover 2 seems to work based on my rank amateur observations is that the DTs in fact do not play so much as run plugging bulwarks who hold the LOS, but as active penetrators who if they diagnose the play correctly penetrate and blow up run plays. or force the OL to double team them and work hard to make sure they do not blow up the run that blocking bias is so obvious that an aggressive LB can come in pretty much unblocked to stuff the run or an aggressive stunting effort by the DEs and DTs stop the run. Can this work? Yep it can if you have good mobile DTs rather than run pluggers like a Big Ted. The model for this is actually the Jax defense which finished 4th in the league in rush defense, The biggest DT is Henderson at 325 (about 40-50 pounds less than the standard big run plugger like a Big Ted). The other 3 DTs Stroud, Meier and I can't remember who else all weigh in at less than 310 (I think a couple of them have playing weights below 300. There are many things uncertain about the Bills in this draft, but one of the more certain ones is that we are not going to spend big resources going after a DL player in this draft.
Lothar Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 The model for this is actually the Jax defense which finished 4th in the league in rush defense, The biggest DT is Henderson at 325 (about 40-50 pounds less than the standard big run plugger like a Big Ted). The other 3 DTs Stroud, Meier and I can't remember who else all weigh in at less than 310 (I think a couple of them have playing weights below 300. There are many things uncertain about the Bills in this draft, but one of the more certain ones is that we are not going to spend big resources going after a DL player in this draft. While I agree with your conclusion (no DL - especially 1st day), I couldn't disagree more with your example. Henderson and Stroud are the antithesis of Cover-2 DTs - they're both big and strong and tend to play most downs. They completely choke off any semblance of a running game inside but you definitely wouldn't mistake Henderson for a speedy interior lineman. Chicago and Indy are more the prototypes for our defense and it remains to be seen just how good the interior of our line can be with a healthy McCargo and an experienced Walker. I do know we are woefully short on LB depth right now and expect to see multiple picks at this position.
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