X. Benedict Posted April 18, 2007 Posted April 18, 2007 They were muslims that killed those people?How did you know that? My favorite type of irony - feigned ignorance.
meazza Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Can you point me to any quote by an advocate of gun control that states that making guns illegal is going to prevent all gun crime? Career criminals (certainly members of crime syndicates) are always going to have the right connections to get hold of a firearm. However, social misfits that feel like carrying out a massacre may find it substantially harder to do if getting hold of a gun is somewhat more difficult than walking into their local gunshop. If you know someone that sells weed, you can get your hands on a gun.
Alaska Darin Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 I've been assigned the 2nd for a paper in my Comparative Government class so I've been looking at numbers and arguments for a few weeks now... These stats are a couple of years old, but according to the CDC: 0.21 Japanese kids are killed by a firearm each year. Over 5,200 American kids are killed by firearms each year. The rate of gun violence in the US is 12 times that of 25 other industrialized nations. American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. I support the 2nd so you won't get too much guff from me but it's not too difficult to see that America's infatuation with firearms and our refusal to enforce the 2nd as written (edit: due to DCTom's very good point, I should correct myself and say "how I believe it was intended") is killing us -- literally. Horsecrap. The CDC statistics are garbage and it doesn't take much digging to find out why. As a history person, you don't seem to know much about the 2nd Amendment of its intention.
Alaska Darin Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 If you know someone that sells weed, you can get your hands on a gun. Yet one is already pretty much completely illegal and the other is ridiculously regulated.
Booster4324 Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 If you know someone that sells weed, you can get your hands on a gun. Umm ok well I assume you are going with the idea that one person doing illegal things can connect you to someone that does other illegal things. I know that most pot dealers (not the big boys who move 10-20 pounds at a bare minimum) dont get anywhere near firearms. Most of the people that deal weed are casual dealers. They buy a few ounces at most and then sell it at a price that allows them to maintain their own habit. Thats probably about 90% (bald ass guess) of the dealers out there. They may know a guy who knows a guy who could get you an unregistered firearm. Doubtful they would get involved mind you. Now if we are talking in the hood that's totally different.
meazza Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Umm ok well I assume you are going with the idea that one person doing illegal things can connect you to someone that does other illegal things. I know that most pot dealers (not the big boys who move 10-20 pounds at a bare minimum) dont get anywhere near firearms. Most of the people that deal weed are casual dealers. They buy a few ounces at most and then sell it at a price that allows them to maintain their own habit. Thats probably about 90% (bald ass guess) of the dealers out there. They may know a guy who knows a guy who could get you an unregistered firearm. Doubtful they would get involved mind you. Now if we are talking in the hood that's totally different. I'm not assuming. I know that if I want a firearm, being in Canada where it is hopelessly regulated, I still could get my hands on one. The difference is, I don't need it.
olivier in france Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 I'm happy with Amendment 2. Just not sure we should be promoting it abroad. best post of the week!!!
olivier in france Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Horsecrap. The CDC statistics are garbage and it doesn't take much digging to find out why. As a history person, you don't seem to know much about the 2nd Amendment of its intention. Come on Darin you're usually better than that! Like it or not, pro gun or not, those statistics are not only true but they tell us a lot about the violence of the american society compared to any other in the industrialised world. That does not make America a worst or better country than the others but you have to deal with it and if you're pro gun you have to assume that, as always, with a liberty comes a responsability and a risk.
Alaska Darin Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Come on Darin you're usually better than that! Like it or not, pro gun or not, those statistics are not only true but they tell us a lot about the violence of the american society compared to any other in the industrialised world. That does not make America a worst or better country than the others but you have to deal with it and if you're pro gun you have to assume that, as always, with a liberty comes a responsability and a risk. Statistics on their own don't tell the story. They never do. That's the point. I love the European attitude that America is somehow available for comparison, as if our being the wealthiest country in the world with individual states that are far larger than any European country doesn't have any meaning or can be easily discounted. We're not the same. We're never going to be. Thank God for that.
RkFast Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Come on Darin you're usually better than that! Like it or not, pro gun or not, those statistics are not only true but they tell us a lot about the violence of the american society compared to any other in the industrialised world. That does not make America a worst or better country than the others but you have to deal with it and if you're pro gun you have to assume that, as always, with a liberty comes a responsability and a risk. Tons of bombings by seperatist groups, roving bands of youths burning whole neighborhoods down? Huh??? Wha????? But I guess you cant blame Olivier for thinking this tripe, considering THIS. I love it when tools like olivier look down their nose and bang it agaisnt the window.
olivier in france Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Statistics on their own don't tell the story. They never do. That's the point. I love the European attitude that America is somehow available for comparison, as if our being the wealthiest country in the world with individual states that are far larger than any European country doesn't have any meaning or can be easily discounted. We're not the same. We're never going to be. Thank God for that. Darin what are you talking about? we talk about gun violence and gun availability and you talk about the wealth of America... what's your point? That because you're rich you have no issues? and wealthier than who? ever heard about switezerland, sweden danemark, iceland, norway, ireland?! all countries wealthier per capita than the US... and states larger than who? Germany as more than twice the population of the most populated US State, oh yes Texas is large!! the Sahara desert is large too!
olivier in france Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 Tons of bombings by seperatist groups, roving bands of youths burning whole neighborhoods down? Huh??? Wha????? But I guess you cant blame Olivier for thinking this tripe, considering THIS. I love it when tools like olivier look down their nose and bang it agaisnt the window. RK fast i wonder how many times you 've visited Europe... Looks like the only Europe you have ever seen was on Fox News...
olivier in france Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 You think Europe is dangerously violent? Just ask our fellow TBD regular Pete if he'd still be alive if what happened to him in Madrid last feb. had happened in any major US city...
RkFast Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 RK fast i wonder how many times you 've visited Europe... Looks like the only Europe you have ever seen was on Fox News... Yeah....its "Fox News". They made up all that footage of the riots in France. I have a former employee from France in my office RIGHT NOW and I just got finished having a nice discussion with her, centered around how much a sh---show your Country is right now vis a vis the Muslim ghettos and all the problems with poverty, violence and the culture clashes youve got going on there. I guess she's just a "shill" for Fox News, too....right?
RkFast Posted April 19, 2007 Posted April 19, 2007 You think Europe is dangerously violent?Just ask our fellow TBD regular Pete if he'd still be alive if what happened to him in Madrid last feb. had happened in any major US city... Nobody said Europe is "dangerously violent" But neither is the US, as you look down your nose to imply.
Booster4324 Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 I'm not assuming. I know that if I want a firearm, being in Canada where it is hopelessly regulated, I still could get my hands on one. The difference is, I don't need it. Are you a martial artist? Or do you live in a very quiet neighborhood? I ask out of simple curiousity.
olivier in france Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Yeah....its "Fox News". They made up all that footage of the riots in France. I have a former employee from France in my office RIGHT NOW and I just got finished having a nice discussion with her, centered around how much a sh---show your Country is right now vis a vis the Muslim ghettos and all the problems with poverty, violence and the culture clashes youve got going on there. I guess she's just a "shill" for Fox News, too....right? rk fast just a question: how many people 'd die in the US if half the ghettos of the major cities were rioting for 2 weeks? 200? 300? 500? Last year "riots" here went on for about 3 weeks.... not ONE related death!
meazza Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Are you a martial artist? Or do you live in a very quiet neighborhood? I ask out of simple curiousity. I study senshido, which is a new form of situational self-defense. It combines street fighting and other forms of martial arts, but I do it mostly to stay in shape since I'm a fat bastard. Well Montreal isn't exactly the most violent of places. I feel pretty comfortable going pretty much anywhere especially since I live in a mostly Italien neighborhood, but most of the violence comes from Haitien gang related violence and bikers. The only real form of crime that my family experienced was, once my pregnant sister n law was walking out of a store, when a guy pulled out of nowhere a knife to her belly. She nervously gave her his money and he left.
meazza Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 rk fast just a question: how many people 'd die in the US if half the ghettos of the major cities were rioting for 2 weeks? 200? 300? 500? Last year "riots" here went on for about 3 weeks.... not ONE related death! Yet your country is still full of sh-- I don't mean the whole country, but Paris has gone down the shithole. I know plenty of people who are from there, in fact, my brothers boss lives in France and comes to Canada to check on his businesses. Obviously, if you are wealthy, you are shielded from it, but overall, France isn't the nicest place to live. Unless you live in Monaco
olivier in france Posted April 20, 2007 Posted April 20, 2007 Obviously, if you are wealthy, you are shielded from it, Yeah like everywhere in the world! Well the statistics show violent crime in France is about 5 times less important than in the US but how can i argue with you? In this forum you don't believe in statistics! You only believe people who know some people who know some people who have been in France... I can not fight experts like you!!
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