X. Benedict Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Burn Trauma Bobb Dobbs Whoops. I meant Burn-Trauma-Bobb-Dobbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB27 Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 i dont see all the out of work white and black Americans lining up outside Home Depot, willing to take ANY and ALL jobs offered to them. and most of the guys outside the Home Depots around here have regular 40hr/week jobs doing construction or landscaping. and theyre STILL out there looking for more work. Meanwhile, 2 blocks away are Projects full of "citizens" collecting government checks... The majority of Mexicans i see/know down here in Atlanta work 3 times the hours, at labor intensive jobs, for $8/hr. If they are lucky. I dont know any citizens working that hard. The problem isn't that they don't work, the problem is that they don't pay for any of the social services they get. Their kids go to school, they don't pay for it. They use the hospital, they don't pay for it. They use the welfare system (in some states), and again they don't pay for it. THEY DON'T PAY TAXES!!!!!! You and me pay for all the services, they don't! I propose we take all the citizens on welfare and make them line up at Home Depot for the jobs, reduce their welfare by the amount that they make taking the jobs....... I don't have a problem with immigration, but we need to get these people to pay for the services they use. Have you ever gone into an emergency room? More than half of the people waiting to see a doctor in the waiting room are illegal, they go to the ER for normal medical care...... I could go on and on........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 The problem isn't that they don't work, the problem is that they don't pay for any of the social services they get. Their kids go to school, they don't pay for it. They use the hospital, they don't pay for it. They use the welfare system (in some states), and again they don't pay for it. THEY DON'T PAY TAXES!!!!!! You and me pay for all the services, they don't! I propose we take all the citizens on welfare and make them line up at Home Depot for the jobs, reduce their welfare by the amount that they make taking the jobs....... I don't have a problem with immigration, but we need to get these people to pay for the services they use. Have you ever gone into an emergency room? More than half of the people waiting to see a doctor in the waiting room are illegal, they go to the ER for normal medical care...... I could go on and on........ Of course, that is true of all Illegal Aliens from all countries. The question is, what do we do about it? (BTW, it costs tons of $ to deport them and deal with the problems if we don't allow them to work.) I suggest if we are SERIOUS about controlling immigration, and not just bashing Mexicans (which, of course is good fun), we need to: Heavily penalize companies who rely on illegal aliens for the workforce. (Let's not be discriminatory, either. Bust down the Irish pubs and Greek diners and...you get the point.) Jail the CEO's and top execs of companies who profit from the work of illegals. Penalize and/or jail major investors in these companies and all of the Directors. But, remember if this is successful, the price of lettuce will be $5 a head, a car wash will cost $25, etc. Also, prepare for a BIG increase in crime and violence. You'll save $$ on school taxes, though. There is NO free lunch, here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB27 Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Making people criminally responsible is not going to make lettuce 5 bucks. Sorry. We don't need to kick everyone out, we need to figure out how to make them pay thier fair share. TAXES!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 The problem isn't that they don't work, the problem is that they don't pay for any of the social services they get. Their kids go to school, they don't pay for it. They use the hospital, they don't pay for it. They use the welfare system (in some states), and again they don't pay for it. THEY DON'T PAY TAXES!!!!!! You and me pay for all the services, they don't! That is entirely wrong. Illegal immigrants filing taxes more than ever The IRS created a nine-digit Individual Tax Identification Number in 1996 for foreigners who don’t have Social Security numbers but need to file taxes in the U.S. But it is increasingly used by undocumented workers to file taxes, apply for credit, get bank accounts or even buy a home. The IRS issued 1.5 million ITINs in 2006 — a 30 percent increase from the previous year. All told, the tax liability of ITIN filers between 1996 and 2003 was $50 billion. The agency has no way to track how many were immigrants, but it’s widely believed most people using ITINS are in the United States illegally. Tax Returns Rise for Immigrants in U.S. Illegally (NY Times--may require login) With the tax deadline approaching, illegal immigrants are sending in federal returns in what appear to be record numbers despite fears heightened by recent immigration raids around the country. (snip) “I feel it’s my responsibility to pay,” said Mr. Lima, 39, clutching a $202 money order for the Internal Revenue Service. Hundreds of Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Filed Taxes This YearToday’s the IRS deadline for filing taxes. Millions of Americans are paying Uncle Sam -- and so are hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants. In fact, record numbers of undocumented workers are expected to file returns and pay taxes on their income this year. They are working hard doing jobs that many native-born americans do not want. They are paying taxes in record numbers, taxes that pay for the services you say they are getting for free. They are also filling an urban population void as more and more people leave major metropolitan areas (Census: Immigrants stabilize big-city populations). Without immigrants pouring into the nation's big metro areas, places such as New York, Los Angeles and Boston would be losing population. Many smaller areas, including Battle Creek, Michigan, Ames, Iowa, and Corvallis, Oregon, would lose people as well, according to population estimates released Thursday by the Census Bureau. "Immigrants are filling the void as domestic migrants are seeking opportunities in other places," said Mark Mather, a demographer at the Population Reference Bureau, a private research organization. So, not only are they working hard and paying income taxes, they are also contributing to the urban economy (retail taxes, commodities, rent). Your premise that they are sucking resources from this country couldn't be more wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 That is entirely wrong. Illegal immigrants filing taxes more than ever Tax Returns Rise for Immigrants in U.S. Illegally (NY Times--may require login) Hundreds of Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Filed Taxes This Year They are working hard doing jobs that many native-born americans do not want. They are paying taxes in record numbers, taxes that pay for the services you say they are getting for free. They are also filling an urban population void as more and more people leave major metropolitan areas (Census: Immigrants stabilize big-city populations). So, not only are they working hard and paying income taxes, they are also contributing to the urban economy (retail taxes, commodities, rent). Your premise that they are sucking resources from this country couldn't be more wrong. Let me add to your most excellent post, that the biggest problem with taxes is EMPLOYERS not paying their share of the taxes. There are some problems here, I just think we're beating up the wrong people (or at least ONLY beating up the most helpless people and those least able to cure the problems). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB27 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 That is entirely wrong. Illegal immigrants filing taxes more than ever Tax Returns Rise for Immigrants in U.S. Illegally (NY Times--may require login) Hundreds of Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Filed Taxes This Year They are working hard doing jobs that many native-born americans do not want. They are paying taxes in record numbers, taxes that pay for the services you say they are getting for free. They are also filling an urban population void as more and more people leave major metropolitan areas (Census: Immigrants stabilize big-city populations). So, not only are they working hard and paying income taxes, they are also contributing to the urban economy (retail taxes, commodities, rent). Your premise that they are sucking resources from this country couldn't be more wrong. Gee, MSNBC, pbs, CNN and the NYtimes...... They don't have a slight bias do they. Get real, if you think even 1/4 of the potentially 20 million illegals are paying federal and state income taxes I have a bridge for sale in NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Gee, MSNBC, pbs, CNN and the NYtimes...... They don't have a slight bias do they. Get real, if you think even 1/4 of the potentially 20 million illegals are paying federal and state income taxes I have a bridge for sale in NYC. Do the literature search yourself, then. Actual facts are there if you want them, but they wouldn't support your argument that "illegals" are a drain on society because they don't pay taxes or add anything to the economy. You are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Do the literature search yourself, then. Actual facts are there if you want them, but they wouldn't support your argument that "illegals" are a drain on society because they don't pay taxes or add anything to the economy. You are wrong. Nice spindle. I don't mean that in a gay way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 That is entirely wrong. Illegal immigrants filing taxes more than ever Tax Returns Rise for Immigrants in U.S. Illegally (NY Times--may require login) Hundreds of Thousands of Illegal Immigrants Filed Taxes This Year They are working hard doing jobs that many native-born americans do not want. They are paying taxes in record numbers, taxes that pay for the services you say they are getting for free. They are also filling an urban population void as more and more people leave major metropolitan areas (Census: Immigrants stabilize big-city populations). So, not only are they working hard and paying income taxes, they are also contributing to the urban economy (retail taxes, commodities, rent). Your premise that they are sucking resources from this country couldn't be more wrong. Let's not forget the payroll taxes (SDI, etc.) paid by employers to the govt. based on false social security numbers furnished to them - that money goes into the pot and is never paid out in Social Security benefits. Or the sales taxes on goods and services illegals buy - they don't withhold the tax when you buy a shirt simply because you're not a citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 The problem isn't that they don't work, the problem is that they don't pay for any of the social services they get. Their kids go to school, they don't pay for it. They use the hospital, they don't pay for it. They use the welfare system (in some states), and again they don't pay for it. THEY DON'T PAY TAXES!!!!!! - Most school funding is based on property taxes, meaning if you don't own property you aren't paying in - do you propose we hunt down all renters and force them to pay? - Plenty of folks use the hospital and don't pay for it - it's called being without health insurance. If you assume every last illegal is uninsured they still only comprise 25% of all uninsured people. To put it another way, your illegal in the emergency room with a broken arm is sitting next to 3 citizens without insurance who are creating the same draw on the system. Unless they are sitting in a municipal hospital (and there aren't many left these days), the cost bourne by the hospital to treat these folks is not made up by tax revenues but rather increased health insurance premiums (and we just established that being insured and being a citizen are 2 different matters entirely). - News for you - most welfare recipients in ANY state aren't paying INTO the welfare system, legal or not - that's why they're on welfare! Hopefully these people get off welfare and earn a living with a decent job and pay into the system, but that has nothing to do with whether they are citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB27 Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 - Most school funding is based on property taxes, meaning if you don't own property you aren't paying in - do you propose we hunt down all renters and force them to pay? - Plenty of folks use the hospital and don't pay for it - it's called being without health insurance. If you assume every last illegal is uninsured they still only comprise 25% of all uninsured people. To put it another way, your illegal in the emergency room with a broken arm is sitting next to 3 citizens without insurance who are creating the same draw on the system. Unless they are sitting in a municipal hospital (and there aren't many left these days), the cost bourne by the hospital to treat these folks is not made up by tax revenues but rather increased health insurance premiums (and we just established that being insured and being a citizen are 2 different matters entirely). - News for you - most welfare recipients in ANY state aren't paying INTO the welfare system, legal or not - that's why they're on welfare! Hopefully these people get off welfare and earn a living with a decent job and pay into the system, but that has nothing to do with whether they are citizens. Illegal aliens cannot buy property. When you purchase property you must have a SSN or an alien registration number. There are probably some illegals buying property, but there are few. I also would not have a problem with renters with children who use the schools having to contribute. Legal aliens pay taxes, and I have no problem with them being here. Illegal aliens on the other hand do not pay taxes, I don't care what the NY (liberal slanted rag) times says about it. So, ripping off hospitals for free treatment just increases the costs to people with insurance (who pay for it). Great argument.......... Actually, what is the difference if I pay more in taxes or in health insurance because some illegal is getting free care and not paying for it? I don't want to pay more so someone can get a free ride. How silly of me........ Welfare needs to be fixed.......... Sure they pay sales tax when they buy something, but they do not pay state or federal income taxes. I don't have a problem if we change our immigration laws, but, if you say that illegals are paying their fair share then you're starting to sound like crayonz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Illegal aliens cannot buy property. When you purchase property you must have a SSN or an alien registration number. There are probably some illegals buying property, but there are few. I also would not have a problem with renters with children who use the schools having to contribute. Legal aliens pay taxes, and I have no problem with them being here. Illegal aliens on the other hand do not pay taxes, I don't care what the NY (liberal slanted rag) times says about it. So, ripping off hospitals for free treatment just increases the costs to people with insurance (who pay for it). Great argument.......... Actually, what is the difference if I pay more in taxes or in health insurance because some illegal is getting free care and not paying for it? I don't want to pay more so someone can get a free ride. How silly of me........ Welfare needs to be fixed.......... Sure they pay sales tax when they buy something, but they do not pay state or federal income taxes. I don't have a problem if we change our immigration laws, but, if you say that illegals are paying their fair share then you're starting to sound like crayonz. - Illegal aliens CAN purchase property - IF they get a mortgage. Some lenders are pretty lax on documentation required to write a mortgage (although with the failure of so manu subprime mortgages this will probably tighten up). - Sorry the facts about illegal immigrants paying taxes don't jive with what your get from Rush and Fox - as Coli said, if you don't like "the liberal media" you can get the data yourself, but you don't. - Your argument on hospitals seems silly. If you establish that the problem is with the uninsured and has nothing to do with whether said uninsured is legal or not I am not sure why you still think the problem lies with the illegals. Is it only OK for citizens to jack up your healthcare costs? I am not saying that illegal immigrants necessarily pay their fair share in taxes, but to say that all they do is draw resources and don't pay in anything simply isn't true. In many cases they are paying in for services at the rate citizens are but you single out thellegals as the cause of the problem - I guess its easier to pain everyone with a broad brush than understand that the same problems you get with illegal immigrants are often times present with citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Illegal aliens on the other hand do not pay taxes, I don't care what the NY (liberal slanted rag) times says about it. You would not have made that statement had you done even the most rudimentary of searches on the 'tubes. More illegal immigrants filing income taxes for the first time (Tucson Citizen) Tax preparers are seeing a surge in the number of illegal immigrants such as Romero as the April 17 filing deadline approaches. Filings are rising despite efforts to crack down on businesses that knowingly hire illegal workers. (snip) There is a misperception promoted by anti-immigrant groups that illegal immigrants are paid in cash under the table, said Crystal Williams, deputy director of the American Immigration Lawyers Association, in Washington, D.C. In reality, the majority work on the books and have taxes taken from their checks, using either bogus Social Security numbers or numbers that belong to someone else, she said. Illegal Immigrants Pay Taxes (ABC, Raleigh-Durham) A man who stood with his back to the Eyewitness News camera because he is afraid to show his face or reveal his name, is originally from Mexico City and now a very successful building contractor who lives in the Triangle. He is also an illegal immigrant filing a federal income tax return, and in 2006, he made more than $577,000. (snip) Across the Triangle and across the nation, undocumented workers are flooding a handful of income tax offices which cater to immigrants. "Over the past three years, what I have seen is every year there is an increase," said Blaire Borthayre, tax service consultant. Tax Day: Illegal workers using IRS-approved IDs to pay up (Star Tribune, Minneapolis-St. Paul) Morocho, a food service employee, is working illegally in Minnesota. So are most of the clients at this tax clinic on Lake Street. They're among a record number of immigrants, most in the country illegally, who are using special taxpayer IDs that allow them to pay taxes without fear of deportation. "Paying taxes benefits me and benefits the government," said Morocho, days ahead of today's tax filing deadline. The IRS began issuing these IDs in 1996 for foreigners who did not qualify for Social Security numbers but earned income legally in the United States. Since then, more than 10 million of these numbers have been issued, including a record 1.5 million last year, according to the IRS. Although precise numbers aren't available, most of those IDs have been used by illegal immigrants, according to a 2004 report by the Government Accountability Office. Paying taxes diligently, but in U.S. illegally (NY Daily News) Since the IRS gives out taxpayer ID numbers regardless of immigration status, the group of taxpayers using them includes a significant number of illegal workers. More than 1.5 million such numbers were assigned last year, the highest figure since the program began and boosting the total to almost 11 million, the IRS said. (snip) Illegal immigrants "are seeking to pay their fair share of the resources that they may or may not consume," said PJ Kim, director of income policy at Manhattan-based FoodChange, a community group that offers free tax prep services at 10 centers in the five boroughs. Last year, of those who filed tax returns with FoodChange's help using taxpayer ID numbers, about two-thirds were self-employed - a designation that includes day laborers and other workers who are typically paid in cash. Since these workers usually don't have taxes withheld from their earnings, most are paying rather than receiving a refund, Kim said. "They do it gladly because they want to establish some record of having been in the U.S. and following the law," he said. To summarize, they're paying taxes. You are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Gee, MSNBC, pbs, CNN and the NYtimes...... They don't have a slight bias do they. Get real, if you think even 1/4 of the potentially 20 million illegals are paying federal and state income taxes I have a bridge for sale in NYC. Liar. You don't own a bridge. Sell that to someone who's buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 i dont see all the out of work white and black Americans lining up outside Home Depot, willing to take ANY and ALL jobs offered to them. and most of the guys outside the Home Depots around here have regular 40hr/week jobs doing construction or landscaping. and theyre STILL out there looking for more work. Meanwhile, 2 blocks away are Projects full of "citizens" collecting government checks... The majority of Mexicans i see/know down here in Atlanta work 3 times the hours, at labor intensive jobs, for $8/hr. If they are lucky. I dont know any citizens working that hard. Why is it that people are equating working hard with working a low paying job? I think the 60+ hours/ week I spend working as a lawyer (and some weeks 80-90), make me just as hard-working as any illegal immigrant. Slightly ridiculous to say that all Americans are not as hard-working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB27 Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 OK, OK, I was so wrong, illegals are great for our country.... But, when one of them runs over your child, spouse, or you, and flees the scene with, no license, and no insurance, please don't complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Why is it that people are equating working hard with working a low paying job? I think the 60+ hours/ week I spend working as a lawyer (and some weeks 80-90), make me just as hard-working as any illegal immigrant. Slightly ridiculous to say that all Americans are not as hard-working. ...he said, as he typed on a football message board from his law office in Gotham at 11:00 EST... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 ...he said, as he typed on a football message board from his law office in Gotham at 11:00 EST... Oh, shoot. Lookie here. It's lunch time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Oh, shoot. Lookie here. It's lunch time. Cocktails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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