Pos as fast or faster than Willis?

[Last Guy on the Bench]

[quote name='Last Guy on the Bench' date='Apr 17 2007, 02:59 PM' post='973569'field. Which is another reason I like Pos a bit better than Willis, since everyone says Pos's LB instincts are second to none.

 

Everyone ? Other than this board, I haven't seen anyone rate him higher or as high as Willis ? So even though "EVERYONE" rates his instincts second to none they still have Willis higher.

 

I wasn't talking about overall ratings. Clearly, most draft rags have Willis rated higher. But you won't find many that don't single out Pos for his instincts. I was just saying that I weigh instincts extremely heavily when thinking about LBs in particular. Not saying I'm right - that's just how I see it.

[jri111]

I am not sure of this, it's just something I read recently from a somewhat reliable source. But the gist of it was this: In the first half of the season last year, Pos was noticeably slower, due to the change of position as well as the knee, and knee brace. Halfway through the year as he got more healthy, more used to the position, and changed to a smaller brace he got significantly faster. By the end of the year he was his old self and playing as well as he ever did. I am not sure again, if this is true but it makes sense. And I highly doubt whether just looking at stats would prove or disprove it. I'd like to hear what Penn State fans or people that have actually and honestly followed him close felt about this.

 

 

Hey Kelly, I think that's exactly right. Here's a write up I just did for another site check it out, it says nearly the same things: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/story/2007/4/16/23169/5297

 

I went to Penn State, graduated last spring and have been to every PSU home game of Poz's career. I was also fortunate enough to sit in the front row at the 2005 Orange Bowl! Anyways I've been following Poz pretty closely and think he will be a great addittion to the Bills at 12.

 

And just to prove i'm not bias, I actaully really like both Poz and Willis. I think Willis' skills fit better at the MLB in a cover-2 defense while Poz's skills are best suited for the WLB. That said, and since it would appear that Poz would most liklely play SLB for us (with crowell in the middle and ellison on the weak side), Willis may just be the better fit for us right now merely because of personnell. I'd be happy with either one of them though! I really can't see the Bills not taking one of the two at 12 unless AP was there.

[Pete]

I am thinking our pick might be Pos. He is huge on character. I remember reading in SI last year that his hero is Pat Tillman and someday he would like to do something for his country

[jri111]

This is a good selling point for Poz. But watch the highlights and its clear that Willis plays bigger, can shed blocks better, and has the deep speed necessary to play MLB in the cover-2.

 

Poz is a very solid player, but he often looks small out there, and I seriously question whether he can cover the deep part of the field on passing downs as a MLB in our defense. Obviously if he's the pick, I trust our scouts and they certainly know more than I. But if it were me, I'd take Willis over him.

 

 

I agree that Poz wouldn't be ideal for the MLB in the cover-2. I don't question his LB speed (i.e. lateral or attacking ability), but do worry about him covering the "deep middle 1/3" as a MLB in the cover-2. That said, if we pick up Poz he most likley wouldn't play middle anyways, he'd probably be on the strong side which he is much more suited for. He's best suited for the weakside but since Ellison is only suited for that position, unless we pick up two starting caliber LB's (one that can play middle/strong side and Poz) then i don't see him playing there. He'd be a good strong side LB though, so your concerns about him having to cover the deep 1/3 in the middle are legitimate, but becuase he probably wouldn't play there, it become moot.

 

 

* here's s shot out of left field to consider: say we get Poz. Perhaps down the road (mid summer?) maybe Briggs entrenches' his heals in and his asking price comes down and the Bills make a play for him. long shot, but it would allow Poz to play weakside, crowell to hold down the middle, while Briggs takes over the strong side.

[Astrobot]

I think one thing which may speak to going after Poz to be a Bill rather than going after Willis is that based on what folks are estimating (its tough to go by what teams are saying because if they are smart they are lying) the Bills better pick Willis at 12 (if he drops to them because if they really want him they better trade up) but if the Bills are targetting Poz they should be able to trade into the teens with their pick and still get him and potentially they can trade into the lower 20s and still get him.

 

It would seem to me that IF the Bills make the judgment that Poz can start for us at SLB, that this team is better in the 07 season with an LB crew of Poz at Sam, Crowell at Mike and Ellison at Will and also have some additional seconds and/or thirds for the trade down (if they can make a deal) than they are with a trio of Ellison, Crowell, and Willis.

 

We simply will have to find two LBs to replace our starters at LB last season and likely will also need to draft two RBs as I only see A-Train and Cieslak as being on the final roster to fill what likely will be 5 RB jobs (I think Shaud does not perform well enough to be our 3rd down back as he is no threat to take it to the house on plays he is in and I think Jackson has gotten some nice raves, but clearly he is nothing anyone should count upon).

 

If we were to secure an extra first day pick or two then I think we would be in a position to select two the RBs who are generally viewed as first day talent (Pittman, Booker, Bush, Irons and maybe Hunt) and with these players and A-Train (and maybe Turner) and there is a reasonable chance that one of these players will step up and deserve a #1 RB slot or make the RBBC effort have a chance of succeeding.

 

In addition, we can probably use some more depth at LB and while there is no one among the first day choices who would be a viable starter, a pick like Davis may add some depth and ST chops that help this team.

 

My sense is that everything will doubtfully work out just as we plan it (injury is always a concern and even top notch picks eventually can simply fail to produce as rookies (look at the Eric Moulds example or the Larry Johnson example if you are thinking about bonafide Pro Bowl level players who simply sucked in terms of production their first two years).

 

I think the Bills are better faster if they continue to emphasize competition. As the lead post in this thread shows there is at least some thinking out there based on objective data (rather than mere fact-free opinion) that Pos and Willis are comparable (I actually disagree with this and think Willis is clearly better than Poz but I do not see Willis as being an elite talent (which I define as a consensus top 10 pick) such as AJ Hawk was at LB last year.

 

I think the Bills can produce more by relying on competition rather than relying on any of the players who MIGHT drop to us at #12.

 

Quite possibly your best post ever.

[CosmicBills]

We simply will have to find two LBs to replace our starters at LB last season and likely will also need to draft two RBs as I only see A-Train and Cieslak as being on the final roster to fill what likely will be 5 RB jobs

 

Like the post, but there is one thing that I can't get my head around -- why people on TSW believe the Bills need TWO starting LBs out of this draft?

 

Crowell is going to be the MLB and Ellison the WLB. Unless we switched to the 3-4 when I wasn't looking, there is only one starting spot open. Of course, if they draft a MLB, Crowell could move to SLB -- but I really don't believe the staff wants him there.

 

In essence, drafting Willis creates a new hole on the defense. Which is why I don't believe the Bills, despite the hype, have him in their sights. Call me crazy.

[jri111]

Like the post, but there is one thing that I can't get my head around -- why people on TSW believe the Bills need TWO starting LBs out of this draft?

 

Crowell is going to be the MLB and Ellison the WLB. Unless we switched to the 3-4 when I wasn't looking, there is only one starting spot open. Of course, if they draft a MLB, Crowell could move to SLB -- but I really don't believe the staff wants him there.

 

In essence, drafting Willis creates a new hole on the defense. Which is why I don't believe the Bills, despite the hype, have him in their sights. Call me crazy.

 

 

 

I don't think the staff would have a problem with Crowell at SLB and if they drafted Willis that would be an indication that they didn't so we really wouldn't have another hole to fill.

 

 

You're right about the starter thing, but the way I look at it (and i'm not speaking for anybody else) and what I think I have inferred from others' posts is that they are aware we only need one starting LB but want someone that can compete with Ellison for the starting weak side job.

 

That's why I see us taking two linebacker in the first 4 picks. My guess is the first on either Willis or Poz and then one of the thirds on a guy like Rufus Alexander, Tim Shaw, Quincy Black, ect...

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I would overall have to agree with the theory that Puz is as fast or faster than Willis in a 60-70 play game. I have for a long time not placed an emphasis on 40 times because sometimes guys are just football players. Period. If a guy can play then a guy can play. I am a Puz fan, and hope the Bills go that direction in round one. I say this because he is one of the all-time leading tacklers at Penn St. which is sometimes referred to as Linebacker U. What does that mean? To me it means the kid can play football. I really think that we would very well off for a long time with either guy, but to me Puz seems more likely to be a sure thing than Willis. Thats just my two cents.

[Lurker]

If workout stats were all that matter, Lame 'em Liam would still be on the team....

 

That said, Poz looks more agile from the combine results.

[Pyrite Gal]

Like the post, but there is one thing that I can't get my head around -- why people on TSW believe the Bills need TWO starting LBs out of this draft?

 

Crowell is going to be the MLB and Ellison the WLB. Unless we switched to the 3-4 when I wasn't looking, there is only one starting spot open. Of course, if they draft a MLB, Crowell could move to SLB -- but I really don't believe the staff wants him there.

 

In essence, drafting Willis creates a new hole on the defense. Which is why I don't believe the Bills, despite the hype, have him in their sights. Call me crazy.

 

I think we do need 2 LBs to replace the 2 LCs who started last year who are gone, but my assumption is that we fill one of those spots through internal player development of Ellison. However, I am one of those is not completely set on the idea that Ellison is ready to start productively for an entire season.

 

He can possibly (if not probably) do this because he was adequate (much to the surprise of many including me) that he did this given his second day draft status.

 

Yet, I count myself among those who believe he can play adequately who doubt he will excel like we want our LB to and had grown use to with TKO when he was healthy as a legit Pro Bowler at Will.

[Mickey]

Willis had a complete workout at the Combine. He ran two 40s in 4.51 and 4.53, the short shuttle in 4.46 and the cone drill in 7.23. He also had a 35-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-11 long jump and did 21 bench presses. Willis worked out again on March 20 at Mississippi's Pro Day and ran 4.57 and 4.38 at a weight of 237 pounds.

 

Pos had a complete workout at the Combine where he ran his 40s in 4.70 and 4.71. He also had a 37-inch vertical jump, a 9-foot-8 long jump, ran 4.20 in the short shuttle, 6.94 in the cone drill and did 22 lifts. He had 33-inch arms. At Penn State's Pro Day, he ran 4.61 and 4.67 in the 40.

 

Looks like Pos is a lot faster in short runs and changing direction than Willis.

What is the comparison for their pro day times? I think Willis ran a sub 4.4 40 at his pro day but I don't know how Poz did.

[Kelly the Dog]

What is the comparison for their pro day times? I think Willis ran a sub 4.4 40 at his pro day but I don't know how Poz did.

Read the post that you just copied and replied to.

[TDRupp]

This is a good selling point for Poz. But watch the highlights and its clear that Willis plays bigger, can shed blocks better, and has the deep speed necessary to play MLB in the cover-2.

 

Poz is a very solid player, but he often looks small out there, and I seriously question whether he can cover the deep part of the field on passing downs as a MLB in our defense. Obviously if he's the pick, I trust our scouts and they certainly know more than I. But if it were me, I'd take Willis over him.

 

 

You know, I think we COULD end up taking Willis but I think that we could just as easily take Poz or Beason. In fact, I get this feeling that being smaller and quicker and really strong puts Beason higher than Willis on Dick and Marv's wishlist. I would go so far as to say that the Bills very well could have the LB's rated like this:

 

1. Beason (Poz)

2. Poz (Beason)

3. Willis

4. Timmons

 

If this is the case and all 4 are available at 12 it could get REAl interesting b/c I think the real reason the Bills did not trade with Denver last year is that Oak took a Safety (M Huff) right before us increasing the chances that a team (Balt or other by trade) could grad Whitner. If they had to have a Safety I really like their decision to not risk it b/c maybe they did not like Jason Allen, the struggling Dolphin.

 

If someone grabs Willis before 12, look for the Bills to sit tight and take Poz or Beason. In fact, I'd be shocked if that is not the case. The Bills don't too much about the fact that others have guys ranked a little lower than when they take them b/c they value guys that fit their scheme and personnel make-up. Period. Especially in the 1st round. They will take the guy they want even if it is a little (5-15 spots) higher they the "Experts" rank them unless they feel really good about multiple players and how the board and prior picks have gone....

 

Go Bills.

 

 

Prediction:

 

1. Beason or Poz

2. Pittman or Brian Leonard

 

If we go OL/CB/DT in round 2 (I don't think we will) then look for Brandon Jackson in Rnd 3.

3.

[Lurker]

Read the post that you just copied and replied to.

 

Kelly - what do you think of Justin Durant? His shuttle times are about a thenth quicker than Pos'?

[Kelly the Dog]

Kelly - what do you think of Justin Durant? His shuttle times are about a thenth quicker than Pos'?

I like what I read about Durant. One thing that I like about this defense is that less than a quarter of the teams are playing it, and there are alot of terrific players that have the talent that simply do not have the size to play on 75% of the schemes, but are fine with ours. That's why a guy like Keith Ellison drops to the 6th round. So we can get some potential gems that other teams like as a player but don't think they can withstand the punishment their scheme dictates. The same thing with CBs, like Hughes. Other teams don't want a guy who may not be able to run with a speedy WR 40-50 yards down the field, but we don't ask ours to so we can look hard at a guy like that and get him one or two or three rounds below their talent level.

 

Again, I like what I read about Durant, and surely Marv is not going to be shy about taking a player from a small college. He is actually one of those players I expect the Bills to look strongly at.

[Lurker]

He is actually one of those players I expect the Bills to look strongly at.

 

I think so too. I'm also starting to think that Jon Beason might be the WTF first round pick that makes SDS's server explode into flames this year, much like DW last April.