1billsfan Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Please stop with the backup crap. Walter Payton would be a backup if he was currently playing on the San Diego Roster. I am against giving up a first for Turner....UNLESS...we are hell bent on using that pick on Lynch. If we decide Lynch is the correct guy at 12, I would rather give the pick to SD for Turner. Michael Turner IS a backup runningback. Walter Payton was a better runningback than LT, he would never be LT's backup. Any other questions?
obie_wan Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Please stop with the backup crap. Walter Payton would be a backup if he was currently playing on the San Diego Roster. I am against giving up a first for Turner....UNLESS...we are hell bent on using that pick on Lynch. If we decide Lynch is the correct guy at 12, I would rather give the pick to SD for Turner. My problem is not that he is a backup. He's a great fantasy back, but maybe not such a good real NFL RB. It's that I have serious doubts if he can do any of the other critical things a feature back needs to do other than purely running with the rock. like blitz pickup - which will get JP killed blocking running pass patterns recognizing blitzes and adjusting to play changes. If he is so good, even as a backup, why didn't SD have him do more when they did play him? Maybe because they feared getting their QB killed. He's not worth the contract and the draft picks needed to find out for sure.
keepthefaith Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Just one GIGANTIC game of Chess....... Thats how i see it now.. just wait til draft time and you will see what AJ was really worth taking for his backup RB. A wise post.
1billsfan Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Just one GIGANTIC game of Chess....... Thats how i see it now.. just wait til draft time and you will see what AJ was really worth taking for his backup RB. AJ fired a coach that got SD to 14 wins last season. I don't see him budging from his stance of getting a first rounder. Getting what Turner's worth is not important anymore, it's getting the upper hand on a team like they did with the Giants/Mannng trade. The heels have been dug in at this point. Time to move on and get a RB in the third round unless Peterson were to fall to us at 12.
Tipster19 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 It makes perfect sense given the Chargers' status as a Super Bowl contender. Should Ladainian Tomlinson be injured, Turner has proven that he can be very effective within their system. They're not rebuilding and certainly don't *need* the draft pick. Unless they know that they can draft an immediate impact player with the pick received, it makes more sense for AJ Smith to hang onto Turner for 2007, even if it means losing him for no compensation a year from now. Turner simply provides more value to that particular team than would a 2nd round pick. On the other hand, for a team like the Bills, he would seem to be a poor value given that a RB could easily be selected in R2 or 3 that will immediately improve this team. Now maybe we can argue that Pittman, Irons or whoever isn't as good as Turner, but there's little question that the 600-800 yards they'll likely provide this upcoming season would make the Bills a MUCH better team than they currently are. In other words, the Bills (and others in need of a RB) don't necessarily need Turner in order to signficantly upgrade their team. This is why he'll remain a Charger. He actually IS worth a 1st to them, yet every team actually needing a RB could reasonably expect to make a significant upgrade at the position in the upcoming draft with even a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Its not going to happen unless someone, including the Chargers, gets desperate for some reason. Well said Brandon. I think value is better defined as what a player can bring to a team rather than just their ability. San Diego is set to make a serious run at the Super Bowl and having Turner as an insurance policy makes great sense for them, if we like it or not. This team is deep in most areas and the couple of needs that they have, WRs and DBs, this draft is strong in. They can conceivably stand pat and still address their needs adequately.
K-Gun10 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 I just dont get how a backup, playing with probably the best line in the league behind the mvp of the league, running after defenses are tired out, is possibly going for a first round pick and the seahawks couldnt even get a second rounder for last years mvp Shaun Alexander.
Lurker Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 I just dont get how a backup, playing with probably the best line in the league behind the mvp of the league, running after defenses are tired out, is possibly going for a first round pick and the seahawks couldnt even get a second rounder for last years mvp Shaun Alexander. Apples and oranges. Alexander's contract $$$ hurt his trade value.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 There are numerous things that are going on here, and it will play out either before or on the first day of the draft. Fans, including myself, talk in terms of certainty even though there is zero certainty in this unique situation. The fact is that AJ doesn't need to trade Turner. The Bills didnt need to trade Clements last year because they feared getting rid of him. AJ may feel, rightfully, that nothing less than a #1 pick is worth losing a valuable back-up on a Super Bowl team, whether he was going to lose him or not. He's also their best KR. There is still two weeks to go. We don't know what AJ's ceiling or bottom is, and no one does, regardless of any reporting. AJ Smith might not even know himself as of today what he will accept in trade on draft day because it's a gray area. NO ONE ON EARTH knows how good Turner is as an NFL starter, so anyone that says he's great or sucks or is anything in between is talking out of their ass, it's only an opinion and not any more valuable than anyone else's. He looks great but he isn't already great. He is likely much more of a sure bet than a rookie #2 because he has proved certain things that they haven't. Someone may bite, so AJ is doing the right thing for his team. If I was AJ, I wouldn't take less than a #2 for him and it better be a top #2.
GG Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 While we're talking hypothetical draft picks - the claim that Chargers are likely to receive at least a 4th rounder for losing Turner to free agency as a good negotiating position, neglects to mention that the aforementioned 4th round pick would be in the 2009 draft. If we apply the GG-patented time adjusted draft value chart to that pick, it would equate to Filmel Johnson.
Pete Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Its all posturing by AJ. He has Darren Sprowles to back up LT and Turned is gonna walk next year. AJ is just playing poker. Dont overpay Marv!
KOKBILLS Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 AJ fired a coach that got SD to 14 wins last season. I don't see him budging from his stance of getting a first rounder. Getting what Turner's worth is not important anymore, it's getting the upper hand on a team like they did with the Giants/Mannng trade. The heels have been dug in at this point. Time to move on and get a RB in the third round unless Peterson were to fall to us at 12. Well...Dean Spanos fired Marty, not AJ...It was AJ or Marty and Spanos had to decide...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 While we're talking hypothetical draft picks - the claim that Chargers are likely to receive at least a 4th rounder for losing Turner to free agency as a good negotiating position, neglects to mention that the aforementioned 4th round pick would be in the 2009 draft. If we apply the GG-patented time adjusted draft value chart to that pick, it would equate to Filmel Johnson. No, it's much more likely to equate to Zach Thomas because we all know that you can pick up great players in the lower rounds of drafts because it happened once a decade ago on another team at another position.
Tipster19 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 I mentioned it in an earlier post that Cleveland could really make a big move up offensively this year. If they were to draft Russell/Quinn in the 1st rd then they may want to use their very early 2nd rder to upgrade the RB position by entering the Turner Derby. They spent top ten picks in the past on offensive receivers and somebody to utilize them. Grabbing one these QBs should solidify them at this position for years to come. This leads me to think about how much can they really rely on Jamal Lewis. If Turner is everything that is perceived than making a move for him would be logical. Does anyone feel that Cleveland could be that team that comes out of nowhere to make a run for Turner?
The Dean Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 I mentioned it in an earlier post that Cleveland could really make a big move up offensively this year. If they were to draft Russell/Quinn in the 1st rd then they may want to use their very early 2nd rder to upgrade the RB position by entering the Turner Derby. They spent top ten picks in the past on offensive receivers and somebody to utilize them. Grabbing one these QBs should solidify them at this position for years to come. This leads me to think about how much can they really rely on Jamal Lewis. If Turner is everything that is perceived than making a move for him would be logical. Does anyone feel that Cleveland could be that team that comes out of nowhere to make a run for Turner? How's their Offensive Line this year? Also, I rarely expect a rookie QB to really step out in his first year. The scenario you describe might very well suggest Cleveland's move this year will really help their offense next year.
ExWNYer Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 I mentioned it in an earlier post that Cleveland could really make a big move up offensively this year. If they were to draft Russell/Quinn in the 1st rd then they may want to use their very early 2nd rder to upgrade the RB position by entering the Turner Derby. They spent top ten picks in the past on offensive receivers and somebody to utilize them. Grabbing one these QBs should solidify them at this position for years to come. This leads me to think about how much can they really rely on Jamal Lewis. If Turner is everything that is perceived than making a move for him would be logical. Does anyone feel that Cleveland could be that team that comes out of nowhere to make a run for Turner? I don't disagree with this at all. If the Brownies pass on Peterson, I believe that they will become a factor in the Turner "sweepstakes", if there is such a thing.
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Still I continue to say that, he's not worth it.
The Dean Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Still I continue to say that, he's not worth it. Clearly. It's one of the reasons I think he may be worth THREE number ones.
mannc Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 The way this trade happens is as follows: When the 12th pick comes around on draft day, there is someone on the board that the Chargers covet who won't be there later in the round. They then swap no. 1s with the Bills, which, according to the ridiculous draft value chart, is worth a high 2nd round pick. That would still allow the Bills to draft a top LB and pay a lower rookie signing bonus. Only problem with this scenario is that the Bills would have to have a contract with Turner worked out in advance. And of course there might be someone available at no. 12 whom Marv can't live without.
GG Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 No, it's much more likely to equate to Zach Thomas because we all know that you can pick up great players in the lower rounds of drafts because it happened once a decade ago on another team at another position. Yeah, but that's Zach Thomas three drafts from now. Thus in 2009, he's Lawerence Taylor.
Trader Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 The way this trade happens is as follows: When the 12th pick comes around on draft day, there is someone on the board that the Chargers covet who won't be there later in the round. They then swap no. 1s with the Bills, which, according to the ridiculous draft value chart, is worth a high 2nd round pick. That would still allow the Bills to draft a top LB and pay a lower rookie signing bonus. Only problem with this scenario is that the Bills would have to have a contract with Turner worked out in advance. And of course there might be someone available at no. 12 whom Marv can't live without. I think that draft day trades like this one are tougher than they look like on the surface. Turner might be mentally out of San Diego already. He and his agent have been remarkably silent on this. If San Diego does not do a deal on draft day. It will cost him multiple millions in contract value. His Trade value and contract value are never going to be higher than prior to draft day. A draft day trade leaves no time to negotiate a contract with Turner and no one is going to trade for him and then try to sign him. Any deal has to be done before draft day so that a contract can be in place. If not in the next week or two then a deal is not going to happen. Any value that he has to San Diego during a superbowl run might be negated by the bitterness he would have about losing millions of dollars.
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