Mickey Posted April 14, 2007 Posted April 14, 2007 "Poz" is waaaay too close to "Boz" for my taste. I'm superstitious. Especially when it comes to passing on a LB with killer instincts who runs a sub 4.4 40 and has all the intangibles to boot. Reasonable minds can differ on what position we should draft in the first round but if we do take a LB there, I can't think of any reason why we wouldn't take Willis and never look back.
jri111 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Posluszny is not worth the 12th pick Says who? you? Becuase the fact is, he could go to a number a teams right after Buffalo, including St. Louis at 13, Carolina at 14, Pittsburgh at 15, Cincy at 18 or the G-men at 20. So how would taking him at 12 be of no worth? the fact is he is less of a preceived "reach" then Whitner was last year. And I emphasize the words "reach" and "preceived" because all these so called "experts" and their mocks drafts really don't mean jack. All that matters are the 32 teams and who they have on their draft board. If St. Louis would take Poz at 13 then it would not be a reach for Buffalo to take him at 12 if they really wanted him, would it?
HeHateMe78 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Says who? you? Becuase the fact is, he could go to a number a teams right after Buffalo, including St. Louis at 13, Carolina at 14, Pittsburgh at 15, Cincy at 18 or the G-men at 20. So how would taking him at 12 be of no worth? the fact is he is less of a preceived "reach" then Whitner was last year. And I emphasize the words "reach" and "preceived" because all these so called "experts" and their mocks drafts really don't mean jack. All that matters are the 32 teams and who they have on their draft board. If St. Louis would take Poz at 13 then it would not be a reach for Buffalo to take him at 12 if they really wanted him, would it? Yea but I presume you are advocating for POZ if AP and Willis are gone, correct? Otherwise, it would be imprudent of Marv!
jri111 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Pos is done after at a high NFL level after the knee injury. So you make the same comment a few days ago in another post and I comment that your post has no logic and was baseless. You proceeded to call me duluded for this and then I provide clear analytic proof to back my position up. What did you do? You ignored it completely and spew the same baseless opinions in another thread a few days later! so to refresh your memory and for the convenience of anyone else who didn't get to see it, here are three VALID reasons why his knee of no concern: (note what follows is taken directly from this thread: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=62908 QUOTE(obie_wan @ Apr 12 2007, 12:01 PM) "You are seriously deluded if you think he was the same player in 2006 than he was in 2005. The knee had a huge impact on his play in 2006. Maybe he comes back, maybe he doesn't. The Bills can not afford to take that chance with a 1st round pick, especially #12." I’m deluded?! HA! OK, this is the part where I provide concrete evidence for my position and you respond by restating your baseless opinion over and over and over again. Lets start with stats: 2005: Tackles: 116, Tackles for loss: 11, Sacks: 3 2006: Tackles: 116, Tackles for loss: 9.5, Sacks: 3 Pretty comparable, huh? Now you might argue that he was not as explosive or did not make as many big plays in 2006 as 2005, but there are MULTIPLE reasons for this aside from his knee: 1.Penn State was a legitimate National Championship contender in 2005 (11-1, almost 12-0) as opposed to 2006 (9-4). Between 2005 and 2006 they lost a number of key players in important positions, including defensive linemen Tamba Hali and team captain Alan Zermitis. NO MATTER how good a LB is, his success will always be partially contingent on the quality of players around him, especially the D-linemen in front of him. 2. Poz played 2005 as a WLB in a 4-3 zone defense. In 2006, because of player personnel, the team moved him to ILB in a 3-4 zone defense. Because of his playing style, intangibles, size, he is much more suited to play the outside rather then the inside. He played the inside well in 2006, but it was clear that he the WLB was his natural position and his position of comfort. 3.AND as a PRECAUTION to the knee injury he suffered in the Orange Bowl and at the advice and recommendation of team doctors, Poz wore a large brace on his knee at the start of the 2006 season. He almost complained that it was limiting his explosiveness and mobility and eventually changed to a smaller/lighter brace. After the switch his production and comfort picked up considerably. Despite ALL of this Poz STILL won the Bedardik award in 2006, maintained nearly identical stats as in 2005, and is still projected to be the top OLB in the NFL draft. So again, deluded? Now whose deluded?! " Then I gave you ESPN Insider's scouting report on him: "Paul Posluszny OLB | (6'1", 238, 4.63) | PENN STATE Scouts Grade: 94 Flags: (D: DURABILITY) Player that can't stay healthy Strengths: Possesses good height, adequate bulk and room on frame to get bigger. He is one of the most instinctive linebackers in this year's class. Plays the game with tremendous intensity and toughness. Displays adequate speed and athleticism. Diagnoses plays as quickly as any linebacker in the country and takes outstanding angles in pursuit. He makes plays from sideline-to-sideline versus the run. Possesses adequate-to-good fluidity in hips. Has great range in zone coverage and will be able to match up versus most running backs in the NFL one-on-one. Displays excellent instincts and closing burst as a pass rusher. He's a natural leader with tremendous overall intangibles. Few work harder and respect the game more than him. Very good student, as well. Weaknesses: Size is adequate but not elite, especially for teams that project him as a SLB in the NFL. May need to add some bulk to frame in order to hold up in the NFL. Effective in coverage, but lacks ideal ball skills and does not make many big plays in that facet of the game. Durability is an issue after knee injury in 2005-'06 Orange Bowl. Overall: Posluszny played in eight games as a true freshman in 2003, recording 36 total tackles, 2.5 tackles for loss, one interception, and one fumble recovery. He then started all 11 games at outside linebacker in 2004 finishing the year with 104 total tackles, 12 tackles for loss, three sacks, one interception, and one forced fumble. In 2005, Posluszny became a first team Associated Press All-American after starting every game (12) and registering 116 total tackles, 11 tackles for loss, and three sacks. Posluszny tore two ligaments in his right knee during Penn State's victory over Florida State in this year's Orange Bowl, but the injury did not require surgery. He returned to start all 13 games in 2006, finishing with 116 total tackles, 9.5 tackles for loss, three sacks, and two forced fumbles, earning him first team All-American honors, an All-Big Ten first team (coaches) selection, and the Bednarik Award as the nation's top defensive player. Posluszny is a throwback-type linebacker with very good physical tools and even better intangibles. He started slowly as a senior but he returned to form once he adjusted to his new position (from WLB in a 4-3 to ILB in a 3-4) and became more comfortable with a smaller knee brace. He possesses adequate size and speed, but his rare instincts and ferocious mentality are what make him a special player. Posluszny seems to fit best on the outside but he displays enough promise to play inside or both in the NFL, depending on the scheme. Regardless, he projects as one of the top-three linebackers in the 2007 class and should come off the board in the middle of the first round." Finally, If that's not enough here is more empirical data to prove my point: Here are some numbers that may surprise you. All of these times come from the NFL combine. The 4 focused events are the 3-cone drill, the frist 20 yards of the 40, the 40-yard dash and then number of bench press reps. Of the 4 the most significant for linebackers is the 3-cone because it tests the athlete's lateral and vertical movements and change of direction abilities. Essentially game condition traits. The next most important is the first 20 yards of the 40 yard dash. NEVER in a game will you see a linebacker run 40 yards stright in one direction. The 20-yard dash is more significant to the 40 yard dash because linebackers are usually asked to run between 10-20 yards on any average play and a good time in the first 20-yards indicates explosivness and good "attacking" ability. Finally the bench press and the 40 are the least signficant of the 4 because strenth can be measureable in many variables and because, as noted above, never will a linebacker have to runn 40 yards from point A to point B on a football field. With that in mind here are numbers of the top four projected LB's in the 2007 NFL draft: Patrick Willis – 237 pounds Paul Posluszny – 238 pounds Lawrence Timmons – 234 pounds Jon Beason – 237 pounds 3-Cone: Willis: 7.23 seconds Poz: 6.94 seconds Timmons: 6.92 seconds Beason: NA 20 yard: Willis: 4.46 Timmons: 4.32 Poz: 4.2 Beason: N/A Bench presses: Willis: 22 Timmons: 25 Poz: 22 Beason: 19 40-yard: Willis: 4.51 Timmons: 4.66 Poz: 4.7 So Poz is both FASTER then Willis in the first 20 yards AND much quicker in the 3-cone drill (note: this is not a knock against willis, I am merely pointing out that Wilis and Poz have nearly IDENTICAL numbers and in the drills the matter Poz actually has significantly higher scores. This all doesn't really correlate with your statement about a bum knee does it? Go ahead ignore the logic again and continue to post idiotic and thoughtless opinions.
jri111 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Yea but I presume you are advocating for POZ if AP and Willis are gone, correct? Otherwise, it would be imprudent of Marv! Yes i think Poz would be a good pick at 12 if AP and Willis are gone, but it goes beyond that. My personal opinions aside, I think that it would be a pretty safe bet that Marv takes Poz at 12 if both AP and Willis are gone. For the reasons I stated above they are not going to try to trade down and "hope that he will still be there." Secondly, All i'm saying is that people better start getting it in their heads that he's a real possibility at 12 (and IMO a good one). If not they're setting themselves up for dissappointment. Just to back up what i'm saying this is From ESPN Insider's "rumor central" from 4/14: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors Buffalo No. 12 pick ? Bills eyeing Posluszny <Apr. 14> One interesting name to watch for the Bills with the 12th pick is Penn State linebacker Paul Posluszny, ESPN.com's John Clayton reports. The Bills could easily fill a need and take Marshawn Lynch to replace Willis McGahee, but linebacker is also a critical need, following the Takeo Spikes trade.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Yea but I presume you are advocating for POZ if AP and Willis are gone, correct? Otherwise, it would be imprudent of Marv!I would include Okoya in that list before Poz.
obie_wan Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 So you make the same comment a few days ago in another post and I comment that your post has no logic and was baseless. You proceeded to call me duluded for this and then I provide clear analytic proof to back my position up. What did you do? You ignored it completely and spew the same baseless opinions in another thread a few days later! so to refresh your memory and for the convenience of anyone else who didn't get to see it, here are three VALID reasons why his knee of no concern: (note what follows is taken directly from this thread: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=62908 QUOTE(obie_wan @ Apr 12 2007, 12:01 PM) "You are seriously deluded if you think he was the same player in 2006 than he was in 2005. The knee had a huge impact on his play in 2006. Maybe he comes back, maybe he doesn't. The Bills can not afford to take that chance with a 1st round pick, especially #12." I’m deluded?! HA! OK, this is the part where I provide concrete evidence for my position and you respond by restating your baseless opinion over and over and over again. Lets start with stats: 2005: Tackles: 116, Tackles for loss: 11, Sacks: 3 2006: Tackles: 116, Tackles for loss: 9.5, Sacks: 3 Pretty comparable, huh? Now you might argue that he was not as explosive or did not make as many big plays in 2006 as 2005, but there are MULTIPLE reasons for this aside from his knee: 1.Penn State was a legitimate National Championship contender in 2005 (11-1, almost 12-0) as opposed to 2006 (9-4). Between 2005 and 2006 they lost a number of key players in important positions, including defensive linemen Tamba Hali and team captain Alan Zermitis. NO MATTER how good a LB is, his success will always be partially contingent on the quality of players around him, especially the D-linemen in front of him. 2. Poz played 2005 as a WLB in a 4-3 zone defense. In 2006, because of player personnel, the team moved him to ILB in a 3-4 zone defense. Because of his playing style, intangibles, size, he is much more suited to play the outside rather then the inside. He played the inside well in 2006, but it was clear that he the WLB was his natural position and his position of comfort. 3.AND as a PRECAUTION to the knee injury he suffered in the Orange Bowl and at the advice and recommendation of team doctors, Poz wore a large brace on his knee at the start of the 2006 season. He almost complained that it was limiting his explosiveness and mobility and eventually changed to a smaller/lighter brace. After the switch his production and comfort picked up considerably. Despite ALL of this Poz STILL won the Bedardik award in 2006, maintained nearly identical stats as in 2005, and is still projected to be the top OLB in the NFL draft. So again, deluded? Now whose deluded?! " Then I gave you ESPN Insider's scouting report on him: "Paul Posluszny OLB | (6'1", 238, 4.63) | PENN STATE Scouts Grade: 94 Flags: (D: DURABILITY) Player that can't stay healthy Strengths: Possesses good height, adequate bulk and room on frame to get bigger. He is one of the most instinctive linebackers in this year's class. Plays the game with tremendous intensity and toughness. Displays adequate speed and athleticism. Diagnoses plays as quickly as any linebacker in the country and takes outstanding angles in pursuit. He makes plays from sideline-to-sideline versus the run. Possesses adequate-to-good fluidity in hips. Has great range in zone coverage and will be able to match up versus most running backs in the NFL one-on-one. Displays excellent instincts and closing burst as a pass rusher. He's a natural leader with tremendous overall intangibles. Few work harder and respect the game more than him. Very good student, as well. Weaknesses: Size is adequate but not elite, especially for teams that project him as a SLB in the NFL. May need to add some bulk to frame in order to hold up in the NFL. Effective in coverage, but lacks ideal ball skills and does not make many big plays in that facet of the game. Durability is an issue after knee injury in 2005-'06 Orange Bowl. Overall: Posluszny played in eight games as a true freshman in 2003, recording 36 total tackles, 2.5 tackles for loss, one interception, and one fumble recovery. He then started all 11 games at outside linebacker in 2004 finishing the year with 104 total tackles, 12 tackles for loss, three sacks, one interception, and one forced fumble. In 2005, Posluszny became a first team Associated Press All-American after starting every game (12) and registering 116 total tackles, 11 tackles for loss, and three sacks. Posluszny tore two ligaments in his right knee during Penn State's victory over Florida State in this year's Orange Bowl, but the injury did not require surgery. He returned to start all 13 games in 2006, finishing with 116 total tackles, 9.5 tackles for loss, three sacks, and two forced fumbles, earning him first team All-American honors, an All-Big Ten first team (coaches) selection, and the Bednarik Award as the nation's top defensive player. Posluszny is a throwback-type linebacker with very good physical tools and even better intangibles. He started slowly as a senior but he returned to form once he adjusted to his new position (from WLB in a 4-3 to ILB in a 3-4) and became more comfortable with a smaller knee brace. He possesses adequate size and speed, but his rare instincts and ferocious mentality are what make him a special player. Posluszny seems to fit best on the outside but he displays enough promise to play inside or both in the NFL, depending on the scheme. Regardless, he projects as one of the top-three linebackers in the 2007 class and should come off the board in the middle of the first round." Finally, If that's not enough here is more empirical data to prove my point: Here are some numbers that may surprise you. All of these times come from the NFL combine. The 4 focused events are the 3-cone drill, the frist 20 yards of the 40, the 40-yard dash and then number of bench press reps. Of the 4 the most significant for linebackers is the 3-cone because it tests the athlete's lateral and vertical movements and change of direction abilities. Essentially game condition traits. The next most important is the first 20 yards of the 40 yard dash. NEVER in a game will you see a linebacker run 40 yards stright in one direction. The 20-yard dash is more significant to the 40 yard dash because linebackers are usually asked to run between 10-20 yards on any average play and a good time in the first 20-yards indicates explosivness and good "attacking" ability. Finally the bench press and the 40 are the least signficant of the 4 because strenth can be measureable in many variables and because, as noted above, never will a linebacker have to runn 40 yards from point A to point B on a football field. With that in mind here are numbers of the top four projected LB's in the 2007 NFL draft: Patrick Willis – 237 pounds Paul Posluszny – 238 pounds Lawrence Timmons – 234 pounds Jon Beason – 237 pounds 3-Cone: Willis: 7.23 seconds Poz: 6.94 seconds Timmons: 6.92 seconds Beason: NA 20 yard: Willis: 4.46 Timmons: 4.32 Poz: 4.2 Beason: N/A Bench presses: Willis: 22 Timmons: 25 Poz: 22 Beason: 19 40-yard: Willis: 4.51 Timmons: 4.66 Poz: 4.7 So Poz is both FASTER then Willis in the first 20 yards AND much quicker in the 3-cone drill (note: this is not a knock against willis, I am merely pointing out that Wilis and Poz have nearly IDENTICAL numbers and in the drills the matter Poz actually has significantly higher scores. This all doesn't really correlate with your statement about a bum knee does it? Go ahead ignore the logic again and continue to post idiotic and thoughtless opinions. Willsi does not have a bad knee, Pos does. With many options available, too risky to take a speed LB with a bad wheel. It may holdup today, but what about after a few NFL hits. no thanks Tim shaw would be a better value since he outplayed Pos last year but didn't have the name so didn't get the hype.
Lurker Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Nah...the Pats are going to snag him at the bottom of the round and he'll break Bills fans hearts for the next decade.
Pete Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 I could see Willis turning into a Lawerence Taylor If that were the case he should be the first pick overall. Hell I would trade all our day 1 picks for the second coming of Lawrence Taylor
Brandon Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Willsi does not have a bad knee, Pos does. With many options available, too risky to take a speed LB with a bad wheel. It may holdup today, but what about after a few NFL hits. no thanks Tim shaw would be a better value since he outplayed Pos last year but didn't have the name so didn't get the hype. As far as I know, Posluszny's knee injury didn't even require surgery. His mid-4.6 40 isn't great, but its better than a lot of NFL LBs, including Ellison and Crowell. He's not my first choice at #12, but if the Bills select him, I'm pretty confident that he'll be a very good player. BTW, Lee Evans also looked a half-step slow during much of his senior season following a much more severe knee injury. He was lucky that he was 100% (or close to it) for the combine and proved the doubters wrong.
KOKBILLS Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 No offense but Biscuit wasn't even our best LB ever. Well...thus the wink...
K-Gun10 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Well...thus the wink... No but you know who was Jay Foremen anyone else want one.
sarmanuscg07 Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 No but you know who was Jay Foremen anyone else want one. After this weekend.,., i could use a few whatcha got??
Bills#23Iowa Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 #1 is a WR Baby! We need offense, and Touchdowns in the red zone. Lee is the #1 WR, But we need a #2 who can have about 6 or 7 TD this season, and make alot of big catches for JP. Go WR first. Bills to the playoffs.
Lurker Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Go WR first. Bills to the playoffs. Hard to figure a WR would get much playing time with the opposing team controlling the ball with running plays for 50 minutes a game...
ndirish1978 Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 FYI ESPN rumor mill made it a point to say the Bills are looking to take Pos with 12. Marv already told us Angelo Crowell is out MLB so it makes perfect sense we look at Pos over Willis. I'd be happy with the pick.
VABills Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 FYI ESPN rumor mill made it a point to say the Bills are looking to take Pos with 12. Marv already told us Angelo Crowell is out MLB so it makes perfect sense we look at Pos over Willis. I'd be happy with the pick. Reading comprehension isn't a strong point is it? MLB - LONDON VS. ANGELO: GM Marv Levy officially confirmed that moving Angelo Crowell to MLBis an option if London Fletcher departs via free agency. What I found interesting were the repeated comments of Levy concerning the kind of play required at the linebacker position in this defensive scheme. http://www.buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp...9&print=yes or This is why the Bills defensive staff wouldn't definitively say that Crowell would man the MLB spot because knowing they'd move Spikes, Crowell could be anywhere. If the Bills draft a MLB capable of starting (like Willis) Crowell would presumably play in Spikes spot on the strong side and likely still make the defensive calls from there. If they take an OLB (like Pozluszny) then Crowell would play inside. http://www.buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=1197
EndZoneCrew Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 i don't think he's as good as people make him out to be.JMO What do you base that on?
cåblelady Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Ummmmm......before we draft the guy....can somebody tell me how to pronounce his last name?
ndirish1978 Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Reading comprehension isn't a strong point is it?http://www.buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp...9&print=yes or http://www.buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=1197 Watch the interview on buffalobills.com jagoff
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