Patrick Willis is an animal ...

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

I've been saying to get this guy for a while now. Glad to see people are finally catching on.

 

 

Wow what you must have a keen eye for scouting to find such an unheralded and under the radar player.

[JStranger76]

I agree with Soland about playing Willis at strong side as a rookie. As for Paul P., I would be livid if we took him at 12! I wouldn't mind loading up on LB's this year with Willis at 12 if he's there and trading back into the late 1st for Pusluszny.

[obie_wan]

I would not be upset if we did draft Willis and started him at SLB his rookie season. Crowell has beefed up to 246 and has the necessary experience to play MLB effectively, i.e. call the plays, etc. as well. This makes a certain kind of sense to my laymen mind.

 

Crowell has what experience?

 

Crowell has played zero games at MLB in his college or pro career.

 

Crowell played in a 3-4 in college.

 

The year he backed up Fletcher at MLB, they were not running the cover-2.

 

Willis at least played the middle and is familiar with the reads.

 

The only part that will be foreign is having to drop to cover the deep zone- which Crowell has zero experience doing as well.

 

If he has so much trouble with it as a rookie, Jauron will probably scale back to a normal cover 2- just like they modified teh zone coverages last year to accomodate McGee.

 

The Bills are not expesctding to compete for teh SuperBowl in 2007. Why would they put off teh learning curve until 2008 when they could actually be contenders.

 

If tehy draft Willis, he will play MLB from day 1 - where his big plays will outweigh the rookie mistakes.

[Sketch Soland]

Crowell has what experience?

 

In the Cover-2 in our defense from last year. he's knows our defense a lot more than Willis would by opening day.

 

Crowell has played zero games at MLB in his college or pro career.

 

Would you rather have a rookie running the defense or Crowell? Willis has played zero games in the NFL. There is no way he would have as deep a knowledge as Crowell would, at least initially.

 

Crowell played in a 3-4 in college.

 

So what's your point? Crowell has played in our defense and is a veteran. That gives him a definite leg up over Willis, when it comes to the general on the field part. Playing MLB in the Cover-2 is not just about being a superior athlete (which Willis obviously is), but also about being the quarterback of the defense. It's kind of like not throwing a rookie QB in on game one of his rookie season as the starter except that we have the luxury of playing a rookie MLB at SLB and thus giving him on the field experience that a rookie QB wouldn't have.

 

The year he backed up Fletcher at MLB, they were not running the cover-2.

 

True. But that is neither here or there about now in our defense.

 

Willis at least played the middle and is familiar with the reads.

 

Willis is familiar with the reads that our MLB makes in our style NFL cover-2 defense? You're saying that all MLB reads are the same, regardless of style of defense?

 

The only part that will be foreign is having to drop to cover the deep zone- which Crowell has zero experience doing as well.

 

Perhaps you didn't see that sideline tightrope INT he had last year? Crowell has the range to move in the field. And you know that Willis has experience in the deep zone? It is natural to him as a football player?

 

If he has so much trouble with it as a rookie, Jauron will probably scale back to a normal cover 2- just like they modified teh zone coverages last year to accomodate McGee.

 

My point is I can see the logic of starting Willis at SLB and then transferring him to MLB next year after he learns the ropes and gets into the swing of things.

 

The Bills are not expesctding to compete for teh SuperBowl in 2007. Why would they put off teh learning curve until 2008 when they could actually be contenders.

 

Why would they not put their players in the best position to win? It is certainly possible to argue that Willis starting at SLB would make it easier for him to get on the learning curve because initially he can focus on getting accustomed to the NFL game without having to run an NFL defense without any experience.

 

If tehy draft Willis, he will play MLB from day 1 - where his big plays will outweigh the rookie mistakes.

 

So sayeth the soothsayer. My point is that there are several options and possible scenarios that would result in Willis not starting at MLB initially and starting at SLB until he is ready to assume the multi-faceted position of MLB. I think it is a very plausible scenario that if they draft Willis, this could happen. It might not happen, but there is certainly a very reasonable train of thought that could see it happen.

[clownments22]

Wow. Both guys look great. I don't follow the college game much, so thanks for posting the clips. keep 'em comin. I really want either one over one of the top RB prospects in the draft.

[Captain Hindsight]

Here's some more video for you to enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFTqY8pSqcE

Ya this is the guy i want.

[bartshan-83]

I've been saying to get this guy for a while now. Glad to see people are finally catching on.

 

I'm thinking about taking a trip to Argentina sometime....you wanna take credit for that too?

[Acantha]

Okay, something that never makes sense to me. Why is the MLB the ONLY guy on the field that calls the plays and makes adjustments?????

 

Easy answer....he isn't. Crowell can do it from the middle or outside. Willis will be able to learn, play, and adjust to the position before he becomes the go to guy directing the defense.

 

I know Angelo (Crowell) is ready to take on that role whether it's in the middle for us or playing at a strong side or weak side position. I think he can command the huddle and really get everyone where they need to be pre-snap."

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4684

"I talked to London the other day and he said, 'Crowell this is your time right here,'" said Crowell. "They're going to be looking for leadership and this is your time to make your stand.'"

 

Fletcher made all the checks and adjustments before the snap the past four years to ensure that all 11 men were lined up properly for the upcoming play. Even if Crowell doesn't play in the middle, he'd still be able to execute that role for the defense.

 

"I got a little bit of a taste of that last year when London wasn't practicing and I was making calls from the 'will' or the 'sam' position," said Crowell. "It's not going to be any different, they'll just be some more mental gymnastics for myself. I just have to make sure I prepare and take care of myself first and then help the other guys."

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4669

[The Dean]

In the Cover-2 in our defense from last year. he's knows our defense a lot more than Willis would by opening day.

Would you rather have a rookie running the defense or Crowell? Willis has played zero games in the NFL. There is no way he would have as deep a knowledge as Crowell would, at least initially.

So what's your point? Crowell has played in our defense and is a veteran. That gives him a definite leg up over Willis, when it comes to the general on the field part. Playing MLB in the Cover-2 is not just about being a superior athlete (which Willis obviously is), but also about being the quarterback of the defense. It's kind of like not throwing a rookie QB in on game one of his rookie season as the starter except that we have the luxury of playing a rookie MLB at SLB and thus giving him on the field experience that a rookie QB wouldn't have.

True. But that is neither here or there about now in our defense.

Willis is familiar with the reads that our MLB makes in our style NFL cover-2 defense? You're saying that all MLB reads are the same, regardless of style of defense?

Perhaps you didn't see that sideline tightrope INT he had last year? Crowell has the range to move in the field. And you know that Willis has experience in the deep zone? It is natural to him as a football player?

My point is I can see the logic of starting Willis at SLB and then transferring him to MLB next year after he learns the ropes and gets into the swing of things.

Why would they not put their players in the best position to win? It is certainly possible to argue that Willis starting at SLB would make it easier for him to get on the learning curve because initially he can focus on getting accustomed to the NFL game without having to run an NFL defense without any experience.

So sayeth the soothsayer. My point is that there are several options and possible scenarios that would result in Willis not starting at MLB initially and starting at SLB until he is ready to assume the multi-faceted position of MLB. I think it is a very plausible scenario that if they draft Willis, this could happen. It might not happen, but there is certainly a very reasonable train of thought that could see it happen.

 

Keep fighting the good fight, Sketch. God forbid, ob ever questions his first thoughts.

[Pyrite Gal]

In the Cover-2 in our defense from last year. he's knows our defense a lot more than Willis would by opening day.

Would you rather have a rookie running the defense or Crowell? Willis has played zero games in the NFL. There is no way he would have as deep a knowledge as Crowell would, at least initially.

So what's your point? Crowell has played in our defense and is a veteran. That gives him a definite leg up over Willis, when it comes to the general on the field part. Playing MLB in the Cover-2 is not just about being a superior athlete (which Willis obviously is), but also about being the quarterback of the defense. It's kind of like not throwing a rookie QB in on game one of his rookie season as the starter except that we have the luxury of playing a rookie MLB at SLB and thus giving him on the field experience that a rookie QB wouldn't have.

True. But that is neither here or there about now in our defense.

Willis is familiar with the reads that our MLB makes in our style NFL cover-2 defense? You're saying that all MLB reads are the same, regardless of style of defense?

Perhaps you didn't see that sideline tightrope INT he had last year? Crowell has the range to move in the field. And you know that Willis has experience in the deep zone? It is natural to him as a football player?

My point is I can see the logic of starting Willis at SLB and then transferring him to MLB next year after he learns the ropes and gets into the swing of things.

Why would they not put their players in the best position to win? It is certainly possible to argue that Willis starting at SLB would make it easier for him to get on the learning curve because initially he can focus on getting accustomed to the NFL game without having to run an NFL defense without any experience.

So sayeth the soothsayer. My point is that there are several options and possible scenarios that would result in Willis not starting at MLB initially and starting at SLB until he is ready to assume the multi-faceted position of MLB. I think it is a very plausible scenario that if they draft Willis, this could happen. It might not happen, but there is certainly a very reasonable train of thought that could see it happen.

 

Exactly!

[Pyrite Gal]

Okay, something that never makes sense to me. Why is the MLB the ONLY guy on the field that calls the plays and makes adjustments?????

 

Easy answer....he isn't. Crowell can do it from the middle or outside. Willis will be able to learn, play, and adjust to the position before he becomes the go to guy directing the defense.

 

The MLB is NOT the only player who can call signals and I 'm not sure who ever said that was the case because it is flat out untrue that though the Bills historically (even prior to the Cover 2) have used the MLB for this role that this is the only way to do it.

 

Traditionally the MLB is the signal caller because:

 

A. The MLB is in the center of the field and can see the entire offense equally from this position. Signals can be called by an OLB who is in a wing position, certainly but he has a marginally small difference in perspective looking as a player on the far side of the field (Generally. my sense is this perceptual difference is so small as to be easily ignored).

 

B. However, where this difference in position makes a difference which can be larger is when the signal caller is yelling out adjustments to his teammates on the far side of the field. Particularly in a noisy stadium with a rowdy crowd this can be a significant difference leading to missed adjustments. Many opposing Os will actually go to a silent count when the noise is so loud and this can have an impact on the D player calling adjustments as well (I think many of us remember a play against AT the season before last where TKO was trying to point out a move made by AT was forced by crowd noise to turn all his attention to being heard and the AT snapped a ball and the player he was supposed to cover got free for a huge gain as he had to put so much effort into simply being heard across the field he did not pay attention to the snap or coverage),

 

C, Some folks swear by reading the eyes of the opposing QB and the MLB has a birdseye view at doing this that an OLB may not have.

 

Traditionally, when teams cannot go with an MLB as signal caller, rather than using an OLB as a second option teams often will go to the safeties as their plan B.

 

These players also can have the center of the field advantage though it usually is not as pronounced as the MLB but usually is not as sever as the OLBs in terms of being on the outside. The ruling factor actually tends to be the players as the signal caller is usually a vet who has seen a lot of plays and understands the D. In the Bills case as both safeties are coming off their rookie years, the suspicion is that neither of these youngsters will be given the playcalling duty. In this case likely Crowell, whether he is at MLB or at WLB will likely have the playcalling responsibility for the Bills as both the other LBs will be first game of the season starters for the first time.

 

It has been said publicly by the Bills players about signal calling in our Hybrid Cover 2 that it actually takes a year of play in this D before a player knows it and is ready to call signals and actually it takes 2 years in the D before a player devours it and masters it.

 

Crowell has called signals in the pros before and likely is going to still be substandard to where Jauron and we want him to be. Willis would simply be worse,

[Pyrite Gal]

Crowell has never played MLB in a cover-2 either and doesn't have the athleticism that Willis does.

 

At least Willis has played MLB (not inside in a 3-4) his whole career.

 

The Bills will not lose the Superbowl in 2007 because Willis made a few rookie mistakes in 2007, but he could make them a legitimate contender in 2008.

 

If we chose Willis and he starts at MLB I hope you are right that he can quickly master it and it involves simply a few "burps" rather than being a big problem (though I really doubt it).

 

The key here though is not that Crowell has never played MLB in s Cover 2 (just like the rookie Willis) but that unlike the rookie Willis, Crowell has seen NFL plays called and develop for several years playing the game and a rookie has only seen it on TV.

 

The other advantage that Crowell brings to the game regarding the Cover 2 was pointed out in another thread where a player quoted as saying it takes playing the game in the Cover 2 (which all the Bills defenders have done) before a player can feel he has mastered it and it actually takes 2 years of playing the D before a player can "devour" it and really manipulate it very well.

 

Crowell starting at MLB is likely to be adequate at best and Willis starting at MLB will almost certainly be worse and likely be that way for more than just a couple of games blip.

 

I for one (and actually a couple of others as well judging from some of the posts on TSW) really hope that if we draft Willis that he starts and learns the game at SLB because if the braintrust takes the risk you seem quite willing to take then likely we can write off 2007 being much more than an extended pre-season for the Bills because I doubt we will have a serious chance at winning with a rookie at MLB.

[Paup 1995MVP]

In the Cover-2 in our defense from last year. he's knows our defense a lot more than Willis would by opening day.

Would you rather have a rookie running the defense or Crowell? Willis has played zero games in the NFL. There is no way he would have as deep a knowledge as Crowell would, at least initially.

So what's your point? Crowell has played in our defense and is a veteran. That gives him a definite leg up over Willis, when it comes to the general on the field part. Playing MLB in the Cover-2 is not just about being a superior athlete (which Willis obviously is), but also about being the quarterback of the defense. It's kind of like not throwing a rookie QB in on game one of his rookie season as the starter except that we have the luxury of playing a rookie MLB at SLB and thus giving him on the field experience that a rookie QB wouldn't have.

True. But that is neither here or there about now in our defense.

Willis is familiar with the reads that our MLB makes in our style NFL cover-2 defense? You're saying that all MLB reads are the same, regardless of style of defense?

Perhaps you didn't see that sideline tightrope INT he had last year? Crowell has the range to move in the field. And you know that Willis has experience in the deep zone? It is natural to him as a football player?

My point is I can see the logic of starting Willis at SLB and then transferring him to MLB next year after he learns the ropes and gets into the swing of things.

Why would they not put their players in the best position to win? It is certainly possible to argue that Willis starting at SLB would make it easier for him to get on the learning curve because initially he can focus on getting accustomed to the NFL game without having to run an NFL defense without any experience.

So sayeth the soothsayer. My point is that there are several options and possible scenarios that would result in Willis not starting at MLB initially and starting at SLB until he is ready to assume the multi-faceted position of MLB. I think it is a very plausible scenario that if they draft Willis, this could happen. It might not happen, but there is certainly a very reasonable train of thought that could see it happen.

 

 

Crowell has some range, but he doesn't move nearly as well as Patrick Willis. If we take Patrick Willis, we need to play him at his natural position which is MLB. Everyone talks about the cover 2 defense like it is the most complicated thing in the world. Willis has played a lot of football in his life. I am sure he will pick up the basics of the defense to understand it enough to the point where his football instincts (which are abundant) will take over.

 

Marv and Dick have said they want linebackers who will attack the line of scrimmage. Patrick Willis is EXACTLY THAT!! If he is there at 12, we have to take him.

[Acantha]

Why does everything have to be so over complicated???

 

You want to take Willis out of his natural position....the position he is most certainly going to play for his whole career....and stunt his growth in that position, just because he is a rookie. Why? By his own admission Crowell has, can, and will make the calls no matter what position he is at.

 

If Willis is drafted he needs to play HIS position. Rookie MLB's come in the league all the time, and teams that need them use them there. We are no different.

[Pyrite Gal]

Why does everything have to be so over complicated???

 

You want to take Willis out of his natural position....the position he is most certainly going to play for his whole career....and stunt his growth in that position, just because he is a rookie. Why? By his own admission Crowell has, can, and will make the calls no matter what position he is at.

 

If Willis is drafted he needs to play HIS position. Rookie MLB's come in the league all the time, and teams that need them use them there. We are no different.

 

[/i

 

I do not think that it is true "all the time" that rookies start at MLB all the time though obviously they are drafted all the time. I have not examined it in detail and certainly would appreciate if you or others have other examples, but I believe there was one rookies MLB starter at MLB last year and they do not run a Cover 2 or actually a hybrid like we run which is closer to the Tampa 2 where the MLB has diverse responsibilities which emphasizes the importance of making vet level play reads.

 

If Willis is so good, then why does he need to play HIS position and nothing else to develop.

 

I'm not saying he definitely cannot do it well, (though no one has presented any objective reason to think he can) but between his fellow players saying one needs to play the Cover 2 for a year to be consistently adequate at it and actually two years to truly master it, and given he struggled in pass coverage at times in the Senior Bowl there are some outside reason beyond fan hopes to fear he would have to learn by getting burned for a good chunk of the season. I and other rational fans did not make the game so complicated, its been the NFL itself and some fans simply choose to see reality on this issue.

[Nanker]

too bad he tore up his knee and ruined his career.

 

Yeah. Such a pity. That's the career death-knell for sure. Nobody's done well in theNFL after popping a knee in kallage like that.

[Sisyphean Bills]

[sarcasm on]

Yeah, but he played in the South. He must suck.

[sarcasm off]

 

<sigh>