Turner for a #1,or swap of #1s

[Phil Indablanc]

He had a lot of practice.

 

LMFAO Thats some funny zit.

[GG]

I focused on the failures because the Bills are the ones who have been bitten by them.

 

Good thing that Marv vetoed the trades for Cornelius Bennett & Pete Metzellaars, because trades never work out in Buffalo's favor.

 

Turner is the Chargers insurance policy if ever LT were to go down with a major injury. They are a team that can afford the luxury of retaining a back like Turner who has performed when called upon. That's why they tendered him with the highest amount. That's also why they are being stubborn in trade talks. If I were them I'd think long and hard about letting him go. As for the hype, I hope the Bills are not going to be the ones to throw the dice on him. Maybe if he's shown more as a pass catching all around threat then I'd be more psyched about the possiblity. But what I see is a two down back, who has one gawdy stat to his credit.

 

Turner is garnering attention, but the problem here is that the Chargers are holding out for a trade price that's unreasonably high given the previous trades for more or less proven starting runningbacks.

 

I honestly believe that Lynch will be better than Turner. There's obviously strong feelings on both sides of this fence.

 

Spoken like a man who's never had to negotiate anything. An insurance policy would mean signing Turner for more than a one year tender. If he was just a backup, Chargers could then sign the benchwarmer to a standard backup RB contract of $1 mil.

 

Shaud Williams is a good insurance policy. Plus Shaud Williams is very adept in catching balls from the backfield.

[IDBillzFan]

John Elway.

Brett Favre.

Marshall Faulk.

Jerome Bettis.

Yura Moron.

Now that's some seriously funny shitt right there.

[1billsfan]

Good thing that Marv vetoed the trades for Cornelius Bennett & Pete Metzellaars, because trades never work out in Buffalo's favor.

Spoken like a man who's never had to negotiate anything. An insurance policy would mean signing Turner for more than a one year tender. If he was just a backup, Chargers could then sign the benchwarmer to a standard backup RB contract of $1 mil.

 

Shaud Williams is a good insurance policy. Plus Shaud Williams is very adept in catching balls from the backfield.

 

Turner is a restricted free agent with a high value which was why the tendered the highest offer. Tendering him to a 1 million backup contract would leave the door open for another team to get him for less pick value what the higher tender would garner them. Isn't this what TD did when Price was a RFA? If it was, that certainly turned out good for us.

 

Hey GG, you sound like a nice guy, no need to drag yourself down to the potshot level. I've negotiated plenty of contracts. I was refering to Turner possibly being a one year insurance policy for San Diego if they kept him. He's a free agent at the end of the season and though I'm not sure, I don't think you can have multiple year tenders. Anyways, having him around for that final year would be their insurance policy for any bad injury happening to LT during the season.

[The Dean]

Hey GG, you sound like a nice guy,

 

 

GG is a BASTARD in sheep's clothing!

[Captain Hindsight]

really i thinkwe should just sign this drew bledsoe kid, i dont think jp can do it

[ThreeBillsDrive]

Turner was a 5th round draft pick in his draft year. Good backfield talent can be found in the middle rounds of the draft. Do we really want to part with a 1st and 3rd to get Turner?

[GG]

Turner is a restricted free agent with a high value which was why the tendered the highest offer. Tendering him to a 1 million backup contract would leave the door open for another team to get him for less pick value what the higher tender would garner them. Isn't this what TD did when Price was a RFA? If it was, that certainly turned out good for us.

 

Are you arguing against yourself now? Turner is a restricted free agent. Period. The high value is because that's where Chargers tendered him knowing that he would get a lucrative FA deal, and they didn't want him going for only a 4th rounder. Why didn't anyone tender for Tim Anderson or Anthony Hargrove?

 

Hey GG, you sound like a nice guy, no need to drag yourself down to the potshot level. I've negotiated plenty of contracts. I was refering to Turner possibly being a one year insurance policy for San Diego if they kept him. He's a free agent at the end of the season and though I'm not sure, I don't think you can have multiple year tenders. Anyways, having him around for that final year would be their insurance policy for any bad injury happening to LT during the season.

 

Tenders are one year offers, but there's nothing preventing SD signing Turner to a long term deal. He, of course wouldn't want a standard deal for a back up insurance RB, and would be perfectly willing to play out the string until he's a UFA. There's enough NFL film on the guy to make pro personnel directors think that he's got as good a shot of being a star, as not. Otherwise, SD would not have tendered him so high.

 

I don't understand why is this so difficult to get. No one is saying that Bills should give up a 1st & 3rd for the guy - if that was the case, Bills would have tendered a market value FA contract to him, daring SD to match. The probably wouldn't and Turner would be Buffalo's for a 1st & 3rd. Obviously, someone believes that Turner is probably worth less than that, and my guess is - it's less than Bills' No. 1 pick. Once you come to that realization, then it's hard to argue that based on what we've seen from Turner IN THE NFL, that he wouldn't be worthy of giving up a 2nd round pick.

[1billsfan]

Are you arguing against yourself now? Turner is a restricted free agent. Period. The high value is because that's where Chargers tendered him knowing that he would get a lucrative FA deal, and they didn't want him going for only a 4th rounder. Why didn't anyone tender for Tim Anderson or Anthony Hargrove?

 

 

 

Tenders are one year offers, but there's nothing preventing SD signing Turner to a long term deal. He, of course wouldn't want a standard deal for a back up insurance RB, and would be perfectly willing to play out the string until he's a UFA. There's enough NFL film on the guy to make pro personnel directors think that he's got as good a shot of being a star, as not. Otherwise, SD would not have tendered him so high.

 

I don't understand why is this so difficult to get. No one is saying that Bills should give up a 1st & 3rd for the guy - if that was the case, Bills would have tendered a market value FA contract to him, daring SD to match. The probably wouldn't and Turner would be Buffalo's for a 1st & 3rd. Obviously, someone believes that Turner is probably worth less than that, and my guess is - it's less than Bills' No. 1 pick. Once you come to that realization, then it's hard to argue that based on what we've seen from Turner IN THE NFL, that he wouldn't be worthy of giving up a 2nd round pick.

 

I've never said Turner wouldn't be worthy of giving up a second round pick. I actually think it's close to a fair deal. He's just the last RB on my list of Lynch, Peterson and Turner that I want as the next Bills starting RB. There are plenty of people here that like Turner so much that they are willing to give up the first or a swap of first round picks. You're getting way to deep in the minutiae  of contracts and RFA details. Either people are ok with giving up a first round pick (or pick swap) or they're not. I'm definitely not ok with it.

[GG]

I've never said Turner wouldn't be worthy of giving up a second round pick. I actually think it's close to a fair deal. He's just the last RB on my list of Lynch, Peterson and Turner that I want as the next Bills starting RB. There are plenty of people here that like Turner so much that they are willing to give up the first or a swap of first round picks. You're getting way to deep in the minutiae of contracts and RFA details. Either people are ok with giving up a first round pick (or pick swap) or they're not. I'm definitely not ok with it.

 

I don't know how many times it needs to be explained that swapping 1st round picks is not the same as giving away a 1st rounder. I don't know how many times it's been said that SD's starting point of 1st round pick as compensation is too high for Turner, and that's why it's a starting point for SD, not for Buffalo or Tenn.

[obie_wan]

I'm not saying Turner is surely going to be a stud. That is something no one knows, not you, not me, not AJ Smith, not Marv, not Turner himself. But the one thing that kind of stands out to me is that virtually everyone except some small portion of outsider fans seem to think he is the real deal. He has never, to my knowledge, NOT been terrific. He was terrific in college, one of the greatest statistical running backs in NCAA history. ALL of the Charger fans seem to think he is terrific. The pundits seem to think he is terrific. AJ Smith does. LT and Neal do. All three years he's played he's played terrific. Someone earlier posted his pre-season stats and they were terrific. He has never NOT been terrific. He has no physical limitations. He is big and strong and fast and he runs hard and rarely fumbles. So that makes me believe he will be pretty good.

 

well there's the rub-

 

for as terrific he was in college as a runner- he still was only drafted in the 5th round.

 

and as terrific as he's in been in mop up duty for SD, he has not forced SD to get him on the field more.

 

Note that Darrick Blalock looked great running the ball when Priest got hurt, but he has seriously sucked when the focal point of the offense.

 

My guess is that Turner is a terrific runner, but he has serious shortcomings in blocking, blitz pickup and pass receiving that will prevent him from being a "terrific" feature back - and thus not worth the picks and contract being floated around.

[Gordio]

Hershal Walker

Rob Johnson

Drew Bledsoe

Alvin Harper

Peerless Price

 

Trading picks for other team's players has a way of biting you in the ass. Please Marv, don't do it.

 

Turner is a 2 down back that has just 7 catches, 5 touchdowns and has only averaged 5 carries per game average in the NFL.

 

Both Peterson and Lynch will have better careers than this guy. Count on it.

 

You forgot to add Priest Holmes & Marshal Faulk to that list.

[Gordio]

I've never said Turner wouldn't be worthy of giving up a second round pick. I actually think it's close to a fair deal. He's just the last RB on my list of Lynch, Peterson and Turner that I want as the next Bills starting RB. There are plenty of people here that like Turner so much that they are willing to give up the first or a swap of first round picks. You're getting way to deep in the minutiae  of contracts and RFA details. Either people are ok with giving up a first round pick (or pick swap) or they're not. I'm definitely not ok with it.

 

Your looking at this all wrong though. The question is would you rather have Lynch or Peterson as the next bills rb or Turner & also Willis or Okoye to strengthen the defense.

[1billsfan]

I don't know how many times it needs to be explained that swapping 1st round picks is not the same as giving away a 1st rounder. I don't know how many times it's been said that SD's starting point of 1st round pick as compensation is too high for Turner, and that's why it's a starting point for SD, not for Buffalo or Tenn.

 

No one said swapping 1st round picks is the same as giving away a 1st rounder, I certainly never said that. It's still too rich for a player that is a backup at a position that's clearly a buyers market. The swap of picks equals out to be the 33rd pick of the draft according to the value chart. I think Turner's worth is somewhere towards the bottom of the second round.

 

Let's just say that Turner is worth pick 50 (mid second round) which is 400 points on the chart.

 

For instance, this trade hits that number dead on...

Swap of 2nd rounders = 190

Giving SD our first 3rd round pick = 210

 

If we do end up trading for Turner, this is the kind of trade the Bills should make.

[1billsfan]

Your looking at this all wrong though. The question is would you rather have Lynch or Peterson as the next bills rb or Turner & also Willis or Okoye to strengthen the defense.

 

I want the Bills to draft Lynch or Peterson in the first, then draft OLB linebacker in the second and MLB in the third. If we ended up with getting Willis, I'd certainly be able to deal with Turner at RB. I think he's more hype than a superstar RB. I also think that both Lynch and Peterson will be better backs than Turner.

[GG]

No one said swapping 1st round picks is the same as giving away a 1st rounder, I certainly never said that. It's still too rich for a player that is a backup at a position that's clearly a buyers market. The swap of picks equals out to be the 33rd pick of the draft according to the value chart. I think Turner's worth is somewhere towards the bottom of the second round.

 

Let's just say that Turner is worth pick 50 (mid second round) which is 400 points on the chart.

 

For instance, this trade hits that number dead on...

Swap of 2nd rounders = 190

Giving SD our first 3rd round pick = 210

 

If we do end up trading for Turner, this is the kind of trade the Bills should make.

 

Do you make every single decision in your life based on what a chart says you should do? Cartologists would love you then.

 

That stupid draft chart is a guide, just like any other quantitative guide that help you in making a decision. Unfortunately, life doesn't work in a way to fit a tidy black box that gives you a magic ball answer. The chart doesn't take into account your current roster, your needs and your opponents' needs. For the same reason Levy didn't trade out of No. 8 last year, because he felt the risk of losing Whitner was too high. The stupid little chart said that Levy was an idiot for not trading out of that spot because he could get more "value" later. What the hell is that value? And how is that value allocated to each individual draft, especially since it's been consistently proven that draft quality varies greatly from year to year? How does the chart account for a truly great 1st round and mediocre 2nd round and onward?

 

There are too many variables involved in this to stick your head into a spreadsheet and say "my numerologist said that Friday is a bad day to make this trade. I better wait til Monday, when the Moon is rising."

[1billsfan]

Do you make every single decision in your life based on what a chart says you should do? Cartologists would love you then.

 

That stupid draft chart is a guide, just like any other quantitative guide that help you in making a decision. Unfortunately, life doesn't work in a way to fit a tidy black box that gives you a magic ball answer. The chart doesn't take into account your current roster, your needs and your opponents' needs. For the same reason Levy didn't trade out of No. 8 last year, because he felt the risk of losing Whitner was too high. The stupid little chart said that Levy was an idiot for not trading out of that spot because he could get more "value" later. What the hell is that value? And how is that value allocated to each individual draft, especially since it's been consistently proven that draft quality varies greatly from year to year? How does the chart account for a truly great 1st round and mediocre 2nd round and onward?

 

There are too many variables involved in this to stick your head into a spreadsheet and say "my numerologist said that Friday is a bad day to make this trade. I better wait til Monday, when the Moon is rising."

 

Dude, it's just my opinion...relax, it's Friday.

 

I think that Turner is worth nothing more than a mid to late second round pick. Can't you deal with someone who's not wet in the pants over Turner the Burner?

 

Frankly, I don't want Turner at all. The Chargers can keep their over hyped bench warmer.

[Ramius]

I think you're wrong. There's no way that a career back up, who's padded his stats in blow out wins is a better player than a can't-miss prospect from college. Isn't that right, Blair Thomas? Or did I have him mixed up with Curtis Enis? I get those guys mixed up, ever since they switched their nameplates at the Canton ceremonies.

 

Sorry to (William Green) inform you GG (TJ Duckett), but you forgot (Leeland McElroy) a whole host of (Michael Bennett) 1st round (Napolean Kaufman) "cant miss" (Ron Dayne) RB's that are (Trung Candidate) well on their (John Avery) way to canton (Lawerence Phillips). And i only (Tim Biakabutuka) went back to (Tyrone Wheatley) 1995 (Rashann Salaam).

[nucci]

Turner was a 5th round draft pick in his draft year. Good backfield talent can be found in the middle rounds of the draft. Do we really want to part with a 1st and 3rd to get Turner?

We are not going to part with 1st and a 3rd. If we were we would just sign him to an offer sheet and SD would not match. There would be no need for trade talk. He is a RFA.