Simple Debate

[Pete]

WILLIS! We have bigger problems to worry about on the defense.

um no need to shout or be redundant- you already said your position. Whos to say rounds 2-7 are not devoted to defense? You can shore up a defense outside your first round pick. GOT IT?

[1billsfan]

Lets see Crowell a OLB coming off an injury making a switch to a new position, over Willis a tackling machine who knows the ILB position? And then a reach for Lynch who is dropping out of first round mocks faster than a speeding bullet.

 

After breaking it down, it's a no-brainer!!!

 

WILLIS!

 

So since Pat "Looney Tunes" Kirwin drops him out of his first round he's officially a reach at 12?

 

Pat Kirwin is the biggest flake covering the NFL. The guy changes his mind constantly. This is the same guy who was gaga over Kelly Holcomb being the starter for the Bills, this is who you want the Bills to take their drafting cues???????

 

Gil Brandt has Marshawn Lynch at #15 on his Nifty Fifty, and that's about as credible of a player evaluator as you can find in the NFL. Many teams have out-thought themselves regarding the stock up and stock down method of choosing players. I'm sure there are plenty of teams that would have chosen Shaun Alexander or Larry Johnson in a heartbeat but were scared off by the thought of their local media screaming that those players were huge reaches. There's no doubt in my mind that this stuff enters into it. I'm sure even Houston was talked out of drafting Vince Young after all of the vultures had left his dead carcass after going from the penthouse (unreal performance in the Nation Championship Game) to the outhouse (the NFL predraft season). If there was one player who was dragged through the mud with people questioning his talent and his smarts it was Vince Young.

 

However, if going after so called reaches were such a bad thing then have you forgotten who the Bills selected in the first round last year? That would be the "biggest reach in the draft", labeled as such by all of the NFL media national and local. So please don't pay too much attention at whose stock is where or what mock drafts are saying. It's a fools game game and thankfully one in which our GM won't play.

[RuntheDamnBall]

If our line is really as improved as we think it is, the value of keeping the opposing defense on the field with Peterson running the show is going to be a lot higher than the value lost with a slight downgrade at LB.

[Mickey]

If our line is really as improved as we think it is, the value of keeping the opposing defense on the field with Peterson running the show is going to be a lot higher than the value lost with a slight downgrade at LB.

I hear what you are saying but on the other hand, if our line is as improved as we hope, we don't need a world beater in the backfield. Denver just keeps plugging in 4th round RB's and they do just fine because they have such good blocking. I think the future of the league is moving away from the notion of a "franchise running back" as a must have to win a championship. As old as he is, I am willing to bet that Marv is pretty keen on seeing where the future of the game is moving.

 

Football is a team sport and compared to other leagues, it has a pretty firm salary cap. The cash it takes to hang on to a franchise back inevitably costs you elsewhere on the roster. I think the decisionmakers in the league are moving towards the committe backfield approach in part as a reaction to the realities of the cap. Splitting the carries means neither back ends up with the production stats to fuel a hold out. It also probably lowers the amount of the offers they get when they become FA's. It isn't a bad strategy. Spread the money on your line and your defense.

 

I am old school myself so I love the idea of an exciting, game breaking RB. I always did prefer a long run to a long completion for excitement. I was a kid during the Simpson era so I am pre-programmed to think the a star RB is the be all and end all. After watching Willis though, I'd be happy with a guy who hits the hole, can get to the corner and doesn't wiff on his blitz pick ups.

[Ozymandius]

Willis.

 

He's much more likely to still be around, healthy, and playing well in 10 years. He would also be a team leader and someone you'd be proud to have around in the community.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I hear what you are saying but on the other hand, if our line is as improved as we hope, we don't need a world beater in the backfield. Denver just keeps plugging in 4th round RB's and they do just fine because they have such good blocking. I think the future of the league is moving away from the notion of a "franchise running back" as a must have to win a championship. As old as he is, I am willing to bet that Marv is pretty keen on seeing where the future of the game is moving.

 

Football is a team sport and compared to other leagues, it has a pretty firm salary cap. The cash it takes to hang on to a franchise back inevitably costs you elsewhere on the roster. I think the decisionmakers in the league are moving towards the committe backfield approach in part as a reaction to the realities of the cap. Splitting the carries means neither back ends up with the production stats to fuel a hold out. It also probably lowers the amount of the offers they get when they become FA's. It isn't a bad strategy. Spread the money on your line and your defense.

 

I am old school myself so I love the idea of an exciting, game breaking RB. I always did prefer a long run to a long completion for excitement. I was a kid during the Simpson era so I am pre-programmed to think the a star RB is the be all and end all. After watching Willis though, I'd be happy with a guy who hits the hole, can get to the corner and doesn't wiff on his blitz pick ups.

I think I'd be happy with Willis, but if we can get that same guy but with 1-2 correctable flaws in his game or .05 slower 40 time but in the second round, AND get Peterson, I say it's a win-win.

[Gordio]

WILLIS! We have bigger problems to worry about on the defense.

 

 

Well that confirms it. LSI says Willis, that means the pick should definately be Peterson.

[OnTheRocks]

I think we're easily a much better team with a Peterson and David Harris or reasonable facsimile draft than we are with a Willis and Tony Hunt or reasonable facsimile draft. It's Peterson by a lot, IMO. That's a guy you want for 6-8 years and I think there is a better chance of Peterson being a superstar than Willis.

 

I agree with this very much.

[PromoTheRobot]

Defense wins championships. Go D with the #1 pick. There are good RBs in rounds 2 and 3.

 

PTR

[firstngoal]

So since Pat "Looney Tunes" Kirwin drops him out of his first round he's officially a reach at 12?

 

Pat Kirwin is the biggest flake covering the NFL. The guy changes his mind constantly. This is the same guy who was gaga over Kelly Holcomb being the starter for the Bills, this is who you want the Bills to take their drafting cues???????

 

Gil Brandt has Marshawn Lynch at #15 on his Nifty Fifty, and that's about as credible of a player evaluator as you can find in the NFL. Many teams have out-thought themselves regarding the stock up and stock down method of choosing players. I'm sure there are plenty of teams that would have chosen Shaun Alexander or Larry Johnson in a heartbeat but were scared off by the thought of their local media screaming that those players were huge reaches. There's no doubt in my mind that this stuff enters into it. I'm sure even Houston was talked out of drafting Vince Young after all of the vultures had left his dead carcass after going from the penthouse (unreal performance in the Nation Championship Game) to the outhouse (the NFL predraft season). If there was one player who was dragged through the mud with people questioning his talent and his smarts it was Vince Young.

 

However, if going after so called reaches were such a bad thing then have you forgotten who the Bills selected in the first round last year? That would be the "biggest reach in the draft", labeled as such by all of the NFL media national and local. So please don't pay too much attention at whose stock is where or what mock drafts are saying. It's a fools game game and thankfully one in which our GM won't play.

 

I'm no Kirwan fan, but he did attend the owners meeting with Sirius radio and came away with the impression that Lynch could be falling in the Draft. Lynch is labeled with the "C" word attached.

 

As for Brandt, I respect his opinion but if you read his Nifty 50 he has the players arranged in alphabetical order which is the only reason Lynch is at #15.

 

I also heard ESPN's McShay say on a radio interview that Lynch could be a bit overrated because of (Jeff Tedfords spread offense) the system he was in which allowed him to gain chunks of yards.

 

Lynch is not a top 15 pick, and the Bills won't take him with their first round pick.

[1billsfan]

I'm no Kirwan fan, but he did attend the owners meeting with Sirius radio and came away with the impression that Lynch could be falling in the Draft. Lynch is labeled with the "C" word attached.

 

As for Brandt, I respect his opinion but if you read his Nifty 50 he has the players arranged in alphabetical order which is the only reason Lynch is at #15.

 

I also heard ESPN's McShay say on a radio interview that Lynch could be a bit overrated because of (Jeff Tedfords spread offense) the system he was in which allowed him to gain chunks of yards.

 

Lynch is not a top 15 pick, and the Bills won't take him with their first round pick.

 

Kudos to you...I didn't catch that, but Brandt apparently does have him in the 11-20 range:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10033502

 

As for Kirwin, come on, are you as gullible as he is? It's common knowledge that teams and GMs lie their asses off as to who they like, who they don't like, and who they think's going to fall. If there were ever a time not to trust information it's when that information comes out of the owners meeting before the draft.

 

Instead of listening to what some ESPN analyst (another p_ss poor source of information btw) has to say, why don't you listen to what Lynch's coaches and teamates have to say about his talent and leadership.

 

Again, Peterson will not be availible when the Bills pick and Angelo Crowell is currently our MLB. You have no idea on whether the Bills will take Marshawn Lynch. Lynch is the logical choice here, and I hope Marv is feeling the same way too.

[firstngoal]

Kudos to you...I didn't catch that, but Brandt apparently does have him in the 11-20 range:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10033502

 

Instead of listening to what some ESPN analyst (another p_ss poor source of information btw) has to say, why don't you listen to what Lynch's coaches and teamates have to say about his talent and leadership.

 

Again, Peterson will not be availible when the Bills pick and Angelo Crowell is currently our MLB. You have no idea on whether the Bills will take Marshawn Lynch. Lynch is the logical choice here, and I hope Marv is feeling the same way too.

 

Tell me you're not serious! Please tell me you're not serious!

Listen to his coaches and teamates about what they have to say are U kidding??

Do you think for one moment that they aren't going to "have his back"??

 

The Titans went to WVU to investigate Pacman and his coaches and teammates gave him a ringing endorsement and look where it got them! i.e = "they had his back"

 

I do remember ESPN red-flagging Pacman for his character issues that year.

 

Again, Marv won't take a player with the "C" word attached.

Period!

[1billsfan]

Tell me you're not serious! Please tell me you're not serious!

Listen to his coaches and teamates about what they have to say are U kidding??

Do you think for one moment that they aren't going to "have his back"??

 

The Titans went to WVU to investigate Pacman and his coaches and teammates gave him a ringing endorsement and look where it got them! i.e = "they had his back"

 

I do remember ESPN red-flagging Pacman for his character issues that year.

 

Again, Marv won't take a player with the "C" word attached.

Period!

 

 

Dude, I hope you're never up for jury duty...WOW.

 

There were two instances that were tagging Lynch as having character issues and both instances have been discredited. Unless you count being shot at in a case of mistaken identity and being the victim of extortion as character flaws. It's pretty low that you're now comparing him to Jones. Please either give us some credible character issues regarding Lynch or give up your propoganda campaign.

 

Lynch is the perfect runningback for Steve Fairchilds offense. He's the only back in the draft that has shown the ability to be a great rusher and pass catcher in college. I'm not saying he's the next Mashall Faulk or Thurman Thomas, but the same type of skills are clearly there.

 

I won't be unhappy if the Bills end up selecting Willis or Peterson, I'm just being a realist. Peterson is flat out gone before we pick. Between Willis and Lynch, Lynch is the clear need, and I feel the runningback we've been waiting for since Thurman Thomas left town. For you to not even include him in the conversation is basically burying your head in the sand.

[Matt in KC]

If both are there, I would take Peterson.

 

So anyone know the current vote?

 

Willis 9 / Peterson 13 / Other nonsense not dealing with this hypothetical 8?

[Koufax]

The question posed was not will Peterson be available, it was just Willis or Peterson.

 

I already voted, and I voted Peterson, because I think he will be a better player. But I think Willis is close behind, and I wouldn't be disappointed by either.

 

But both of these "holes" we have at LB and RB we created intentionally, and I think taking an inferior player because he fills one of the holes we created doesn't make sense. So it comes down to who is the better player of the two. I think there is a reason most people think Peterson will go in the top 3 and nobody has Willis in the top 10. Peterson could be a bust and Willis could be as big an impact as Merriman, but we could also find Thurman in the second round and Brady in the sixth. We won't know any of that at #12, so I think the decision is who the Bills think is the better football talent, and that edge goes to Peterson right now.

[Bill from NYC]

A reluctant vote for

I would however be very happy with Willis.

[firstngoal]

Dude, I hope you're never up for jury duty...WOW.

 

There were two instances that were tagging Lynch as having character issues and both instances have been discredited. Unless you count being shot at in a case of mistaken identity and being the victim of extortion as character flaws. It's pretty low that you're now comparing him to Jones. Please either give us some credible character issues regarding Lynch or give up your propoganda campaign.

 

Lynch is the perfect runningback for Steve Fairchilds offense. He's the only back in the draft that has shown the ability to be a great rusher and pass catcher in college. I'm not saying he's the next Mashall Faulk or Thurman Thomas, but the same type of skills are clearly there.

 

I won't be unhappy if the Bills end up selecting Willis or Peterson, I'm just being a realist. Peterson is flat out gone before we pick. Between Willis and Lynch, Lynch is the clear need, and I feel the runningback we've been waiting for since Thurman Thomas left town. For you to not even include him in the conversation is basically burying your head in the sand.

 

Nobody really knows what happened between Lynch and the girl or why he was "in the wrong place at the wrong time" with that shooting incident but those two incidents have alerted NFL teams that there could be a problem there. I'm sure every team that is interested in him has done an extensive background search on Lynch, so If he does drop in the Draft we will all know there were issues there with him. It's just my opinion but I don't think the Bills will even consider him because if they had him in for an interview then they saw what I saw (and much more) when he was on the NFL Network for an interview, the interview didn't last very long because Lynch didn't come over as being "too bright" to put it mildly.

 

I for one wouldn't trust him with a boat-load of first round money.

 

If both Lynch and Willis are still available when the Bills pick, it will be Willis by a landslide!

[Matt in KC]

If both Lynch and Willis are still available when the Bills pick, it will be Willis by a landslide!

 

This thread is about Willis versus Peterson. Kindly take the Lynch conversation elsewhere. Thanks you.

 

 

Willis 9 / Peterson 14 / Other nonsense not dealing with this hypothetical 9

[nichebiche]

This thread is about Willis versus Peterson. Kindly take the Lynch conversation elsewhere. Thanks you.

Willis 9 / Peterson 14 / Other nonsense not dealing with this hypothetical 9

 

he did start the thread, so he can pretty much talk about whatever he wants.

[1billsfan]

Nobody really knows what happened between Lynch and the girl or why he was "in the wrong place at the wrong time" with that shooting incident but those two incidents have alerted NFL teams that there could be a problem there. I'm sure every team that is interested in him has done an extensive background search on Lynch, so If he does drop in the Draft we will all know there were issues there with him. It's just my opinion but I don't think the Bills will even consider him because if they had him in for an interview then they saw what I saw (and much more) when he was on the NFL Network for an interview, the interview didn't last very long because Lynch didn't come over as being "too bright" to put it mildly.

 

I for one wouldn't trust him with a boat-load of first round money.

 

If both Lynch and Willis are still available when the Bills pick, it will be Willis by a landslide!

 

Wrong place, wrong time? He was at his sister's graduation.

 

Lynch and the girl?..."Alameda County Deputy District Attorney who specializes in domestic violence cases declined to press charges, citing a lack of evidence and "grave inconsistencies" in the alleged victim's accusations"

 

As for being not being "too bright", does anyone here remember Travis Henry? Heck, Nate Clements sounds like a moron but the guy still played his ass off. Make no mistake, the Bills will strongly consider Lynch at #12.

 

As for the guy who doesn't want me to discuss Lynch? Put a sock it it, you're not the boss here and this isn't Communist Russia. Freedom of Speech lives here at TSW baby. BTW, Firstandgoal has had no problems whatsoever defending why he left out Lynch.