The next LaMont Jordan

[smokinandjokin]

I hate to sour the mood and be the voice of reason amongst all of the "Michael Turner is a Pro Bowl RB" chatter. After all, he very well could be a Pro Bowl RB. However, that is what the Raiders thought they were getting when they broke the bank for LaMont Jordan after the '04 season. Jordan was very productive and explosive for the Jets, playing behind NFL rushing champ Curtis Martin. Since then, when he has been asked to shoulder the load as a #1, he has been less than advertised. So much so, that the Raiders restructured his huge contract this offseason.

 

Now, the Bills are supposed to give up some fairly high draft picks in order to acquire a player that has looked good in his role, which coincidentally has him playing backup to the current NFL rushing champ. With that will come a pretty sizable contract that will have fans demanding production. My point is, sometimes players look great filling one role, but turn out to be less than the hype when asked to be "the guy."

 

Not a fair comparison, because the Raiders are terrible? Would the dropoff from the Jets to the Raiders be all that different from the dropoff between the Chargers and Bills???

 

Here's some stats from Jordan's last season in Jersey:

 

2004 New York Jets: 16 games, 0 starts, 93 att, 479 yds, 5.2 avg, 33 longest, 2 TDs, 3 20+ rushes, 27 1st downs; plus 15 rec, 112 yds. He also ran back kicks, and was not a fumbler.

Now Turner:

 

2006 San Diego Chargers: 13 games, 0 starts, 80 att, 502 yds, 6.3 avg, 73 longest, 2 TD's, 7 20+ rushes, 24 1st downs; plus 3 rec, 47 yds. He ran back kicks, and was not a fumbler.

 

 

All I'm sayin is, be careful of annointing Turner the next great Bills RB, because if he doesn't fulfill these high expectations, in three years he will follow in the illustrious footsteps of Travis and Willis...Productive Bills backs who were sent packing.

[5 Wide]

What the.....is that a turd in my cheerios??

 

 

I think we do need to be careful not to annoint Turner a top tier running back. What he does have is an enticing package of skills and a brief resume whose only blemish is playing behind the best player in the league.

[bobblehead]

Actually, I thought LaMont Jordan did a pretty decent job for Oakland last year.

[JoeF]

Its been said a few times...but the Raiders scheme last year wasn't exactly the epitome of the modern offense...Jordan, when he wasn't being crushed in the backfield had very little room. Living in the Bay Area part-time last fall -- I gained a new respect for Jordan. It seemed often he was the only player on the Oakland O that really gave a sh-- about winning. Including Langston Walker...

 

Its tough as a player when you know that there is a 99% chance you are going to be outcoached on Sunday. Without injury Jordan probably would have had another 1000 yard year..he missed the three games on O where Oakland actually performed well.

[smokinandjokin]

Actually, I thought LaMont Jordan did a pretty decent job for Oakland last year.

 

He did so well, he was rewarded with a substantial pay cut.

[Tipster19]

I hate to sour the mood and be the voice of reason amongst all of the "Michael Turner is a Pro Bowl RB" chatter. After all, he very well could be a Pro Bowl RB. However, that is what the Raiders thought they were getting when they broke the bank for LaMont Jordan after the '04 season. Jordan was very productive and explosive for the Jets, playing behind NFL rushing champ Curtis Martin. Since then, when he has been asked to shoulder the load as a #1, he has been less than advertised. So much so, that the Raiders restructured his huge contract this offseason.

 

Now, the Bills are supposed to give up some fairly high draft picks in order to acquire a player that has looked good in his role, which coincidentally has him playing backup to the current NFL rushing champ. With that will come a pretty sizable contract that will have fans demanding production. My point is, sometimes players look great filling one role, but turn out to be less than the hype when asked to be "the guy."

 

Not a fair comparison, because the Raiders are terrible? Would the dropoff from the Jets to the Raiders be all that different from the dropoff between the Chargers and Bills???

 

Here's some stats from Jordan's last season in Jersey:

 

Now Turner:

All I'm sayin is, be careful of annointing Turner the next great Bills RB, because if he doesn't fulfill these high expectations, in three years he will follow in the illustrious footsteps of Travis and Willis...Productive Bills backs who were sent packing.

 

All I know is if Buffalo signs Turner the city better call out the bulldozers. This signing will rock the foundation so much that there will be nothing but rubble from all the plaster and lath being shaken off the walls!

[smokinandjokin]

Without injury Jordan probably would have had another 1000 yard year..he missed the three games on O where Oakland actually performed well.

 

How come Willis didn't get this slack when he missed games against the pitiful rushing defenses of the Packers, Colts, and Texans? All that is mentioned around here is that he wasn't even a 1000-yard back.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I don't agree totally with the fact that Jordan has been a bust--he had one pretty good season and one injury-plagued one.

 

That said, what I find interesting is how his ypc dropped so dramatically after became a full-time back. He averaged one season over 7 ypc and another over 5 ypc as a back-up. Then as a starter he averaged 3.8 ypc for both seasons in Oakland.

 

I think you'll see something similar with Turner's numbers-- his 6+ ypc is probably inflated due to a few good runs and not a lot of carries. Over the long haul, he might only be a 3.5 ypc type of back--just don't know.

[apuszczalowski]

So because Jordan never found success running behind Oaklands "wonderful" offensive line, it means Turner would not succeed playing for the Bills?

 

So what should they do? Draft AP or Lynch in the first or a RB in the 2nd or 3rd? No running back drafted on Day 1 has ever come into the league expected to succeed and been a bust.

[2003Contenders]

Can we please stop with this Turner = Jordan stuff? If you take a look at what Jordan did in 2005, his first season starting for the Raiders, he posted about 1600 all purpose yards and double-digit TDs (in just 14 starts) for a not-very-good football team.

[JoeF]

How come Willis didn't get this slack when he missed games against the pitiful rushing defenses of the Packers, Colts, and Texans? All that is mentioned around here is that he wasn't even a 1000-yard back.

 

 

If I tried to speculate why some people post what they post--I might end up more insane than I already am....

 

Ask Joyce Brothers or Dr. Phil

[smokinandjokin]

Can we please stop with this Turner = Jordan stuff? If you take a look at what Jordan did in 2005, his first season starting for the Raiders, he posted about 1600 all purpose yards and double-digit TDs (in just 14 starts) for a not-very-good football team.

 

A big chunk of his APY that year was from his 70 receptions- he was a proven pass catcher out of the backfield when Oakland signed him.

 

Turner has 7 catches in 4 years!!!!

 

So you're right, let's stop the comparisons. Jordan showed MUCH more than Turner as a backup. And I never called Jordan a bust. I'm just saying he has been slightly less than stellar, and obviously Oakland's brass felt that they overpaid for him, thus the offseason restructure.

[stinky finger]

Actually, I thought LaMont Jordan did a pretty decent job for Oakland last year.

He's a good and sometimes very good RB. It all depends on the situation. Guys like LT will shine anywhere. Most need help from a servicable OL and other talent around him. Jordan in the right situation can carry the load.

 

I would classify the following runners in the same class...Michael Turner, LaMont Jordan and Rudi Johnson.

 

Rudi Johnson flys under the radar, IMO but is a very good back. Why? he plays with some awfully good talent and and upper echelon OL. A good, hard runner.

 

Aren't the Bills looking to put the pieces together correctly? They've virtually broken down the entire roster and have begun to rebuild the trenches, both OL and DL. They have their QB and 1st class WR. Now they need a RB to carry the load.

 

MT can be that guy. I just hope we don't overpay unnecassarily with picks and a head-scratching contract. But make no mistake. MT can be the RB to bring us to where we all want to be, IMO.

[stinky finger]

Turner has 7 catches in 4 years!!!!

This is a question mark. He certainly hasn't been called upon to catch the rock. Of course Rudi Johnson doesn't make a living catching passes but I'd hook my wagon to that horse any day.

[RayFinkle]

I am confused. Are you trying to prove Turner is better than Jordan (averaging over 1 yard per carry more than Jordan and over twice as many 20+ runs), or are you trying to prive he is not as good as Jordan (not as many catches)?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I am confused. Are you trying to prove Turner is better than Jordan (averaging over 1 yard per carry more than Jordan and over twice as many 20+ runs), or are you trying to prive he is not as good as Jordan (not as many catches)?

 

He doesn't have a point. His "point" is that since Jordan's had issues behind arguably the worst OL in all the NFL that Turner is destined to fail in Buffalo.

[Kelly the Dog]

So you would just despise if Turner had 1600 yards, 70 receptions and 11 TDs this year for Buffalo, even if he averaged 3.8 yards per carry?

 

There are dozens of examples of back-ups becoming stars and there are dozens of examples of back-ups becoming duds. There is zero connection between Lamont Jordan and Michael Turner. Brett Favre became a Hall of Famer, and Rob Johnson became a Hall of Shamer. Is there a connection between those guys?

 

Tell me, in all seriousness, if Lamont Jordan had a fabulous two years with Oakland would you be starting threads saying we must get Michael Turner, look what happened to Lamont Jordan! It's almost a sure thing!

[GG]

Brett Favre became a Hall of Famer, and Rob Johnson became a Hall of Shamer. Is there a connection between those guys?

 

They both look hot in tight red shorts?

[smokinandjokin]

He doesn't have a point. His "point" is that since Jordan's had issues behind arguably the worst OL in all the NFL that Turner is destined to fail in Buffalo.

 

Thanks Joe. You are the resident expert on posts without a point, so I appreciate you stepping in and clearing things up.

 

Actually, my point is that Turner is nothing more than a successful backup right now, the same thing LaMont Jordan was in 2004. For whatever reason, Bills fans have latched on to Turner and are proclaiming him to be well worth whatever draft picks and salary is necessary to get him. My point with comparing him to Jordan was that a guy who averages 6+ ypc as a backup can easily drop into the the 3.7 ypc range as a #1.

 

As for the Raiders line...Jordan went from running behind an OL that produced a rushing champ for the NYJ to running behind the Raiders stiffs. Is a comparison of the dropoff between the Chargers O-line (definitely one of the best) and the Bills O-line (one of the NFL's worst for years) completely unrealistic???

 

billsoverdue makes several excellent points in his post above- that's my general feeling too. Scroll up past JoeSixPack's canned condescending post that he uses in every thread, and you will find billsoverdue's post.

 

LaMont Jordan is not a failure. I just think the Raiders overpayed, and they admitted as much when they restructured.

[Kelly the Dog]

Thanks Joe. You are the resident expert on posts without a point, so I appreciate you stepping in and clearing things up.

 

Actually, my point is that Turner is nothing more than a successful backup right now, the same thing LaMont Jordan was in 2004. For whatever reason, Bills fans have latched on to Turner and are proclaiming him to be well worth whatever draft picks and salary is necessary to get him. My point with comparing him to Jordan was that a guy who averages 6+ ypc as a backup can easily drop into the the 3.7 ypc range as a #1.

 

As for the Raiders line...Jordan went from running behind an OL that produced a rushing champ for the NYJ to running behind the Raiders stiffs. Is a comparison of the dropoff between the Chargers O-line (definitely one of the best) and the Bills O-line (one of the NFL's worst for years) completely unrealistic???

 

billsoverdue makes several excellent points in his post above- that's my general feeling too. Scroll up past JoeSixPack's canned condescending post that he uses in every thread, and you will find billsoverdue's post.

 

LaMont Jordan is not a failure. I just think the Raiders overpayed, and they admitted as much when they restructured.

It's a message board on a totally inexact science. The best people in the world at this game (drafting rookies and signing free agents) are hit or miss on whether guys pan out or not. People all gung ho about Michael Turner think he could be great but no one here is saying he's a sure thing. And you assuming that it's likely to not pan out like Lamont Jordan is the exact same thing you're complaining about, only in a reverse negative manner. He looks good on film. He's NEVER not been highly productive. He has an impressive physical ability, size and speed. He has glossy statistics.

 

He's not a sure thing but no one is. And a lot of people think the chances of him being very good or great are better than all other viable options not named Adrian Peterson.