ESPN INSIDER- Can you help a brother out?

[smokinandjokin]

From ESPN's NHL page- the article is linked under the topic "Rumors: Drury or no Drury"

 

Thank you!

 

http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/nhl/index

[Rico]

From ESPN's NHL page- the article is linked under the topic "Rumors: Drury or no Drury"

 

Thank you!

 

http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/nhl/index

Tough decisions await Sabres

Apr 2 - Anxious Sabres fans are understandably worried about losing one or both of Buffalo's top two centers in the offseason when Chris Drury and Daniel Briere become unrestricted free agents.

 

The Buffalo News reports that the Sabres have made almost no effort to re-sign either one up until now, leading to speculation that the team is resigned to losing one of them because it doesn't think it can afford both.

 

It's unclear if the Sabres have a clear-cut preference, but many observers prefer Drury's complete two-way play and intensity over Briere's flashy offensive production.

 

The Buffalo News said the Sabres will have to offer Drury $6M-$7M per season, about what he'd be offered on the open market.

 

The Boston Globe reports that the Kings are a leading contender to get Drury because in the offseason he lives in Manhattan Beach, Calif., not far from Los Angeles D Rob Blake.

[smokinandjokin]

Tough decisions await Sabres

Apr 2 - Anxious Sabres fans are understandably worried about losing one or both of Buffalo's top two centers in the offseason when Chris Drury and Daniel Briere become unrestricted free agents.

 

The Buffalo News reports that the Sabres have made almost no effort to re-sign either one up until now, leading to speculation that the team is resigned to losing one of them because it doesn't think it can afford both.

 

It's unclear if the Sabres have a clear-cut preference, but many observers prefer Drury's complete two-way play and intensity over Briere's flashy offensive production.

 

The Buffalo News said the Sabres will have to offer Drury $6M-$7M per season, about what he'd be offered on the open market.

 

The Boston Globe reports that the Kings are a leading contender to get Drury because in the offseason he lives in Manhattan Beach, Calif., not far from Los Angeles D Rob Blake.

 

Thanks Rico. Not much there we didn't already know, I suppose. I have heard LA as a potential destination for Drury, and I hear Montreal and Philly are going to be the two heavy hitters in the Briere bidding.

[Dante]

If I had to lose one of those guys it would be Drury. I really like him though. Although the Sharks are pretty strong up the middle (Thornton, Marleau) it would be nice to have one of those guys out here. I think I would even deal Marleau (even though he is our captain) to make room for it. Especially if it were Briere

[smokinandjokin]

If I had to lose one of those guys it would be Drury. I really like him though. Although the Sharks are pretty strong up the middle (Thornton, Marleau) it would be nice to have one of those guys out here. I think I would even deal Marleau (even though he is our captain) to make room for it. Especially if it were Briere

 

My preference on which to keep (knowing full-well that both could be gone) seems to change from game-to-game. Both are incredibly important, both play different styles very well, and they complement each other nicely. Drury is the all-situations gamer and locker room leader, while Briere is more of your traditional high-scoring superstar.

 

Drury seems to be the pulse of the team...Remember when this board was questioning the Sabres' toughness because of a lack of retaliation when some of our offensive players were targeted with cheap shots? I know Gaustad went after Ovechkin when AO decked Briere, but that Ottawa rumble proved that Drury is the one guy on this team you do not mess with. He is revered in that locker room.

 

Briere is the gutsy, rags-to-riches star who has made himself an offensive force in the league. It's like the NHL watched film of Danny during the lockout and decided that he was the type of player they wanted to see excel under the enforced rules (notice I didn't call them "new" rules.) A supremely skilled playmaker and scorer, Briere also has a way of coming away from a scrum on the boards with more 50/50 pucks than anyone on the team.

 

Buffalo will do well to keep one of them, probably in the $6-$7M per year range. I'm not sure if you can make the wrong choice....The variable will be Connolly....If it looks like he can be healthy and revert to the form that had him as the most dangerous offensive player in the league for stretches last season, it might make it easier to let Briere walk and hope TC can fill those shoes...

[LongLiveRalph]

My preference on which to keep (knowing full-well that both could be gone) seems to change from game-to-game. Both are incredibly important, both play different styles very well, and they complement each other nicely. Drury is the all-situations gamer and locker room leader, while Briere is more of your traditional high-scoring superstar.

 

Drury seems to be the pulse of the team...Remember when this board was questioning the Sabres' toughness because of a lack of retaliation when some of our offensive players were targeted with cheap shots? I know Gaustad went after Ovechkin when AO decked Briere, but that Ottawa rumble proved that Drury is the one guy on this team you do not mess with. He is revered in that locker room.

 

Briere is the gutsy, rags-to-riches star who has made himself an offensive force in the league. It's like the NHL watched film of Danny during the lockout and decided that he was the type of player they wanted to see excel under the enforced rules (notice I didn't call them "new" rules.) A supremely skilled playmaker and scorer, Briere also has a way of coming away from a scrum on the boards with more 50/50 pucks than anyone on the team.

 

Buffalo will do well to keep one of them, probably in the $6-$7M per year range. I'm not sure if you can make the wrong choice....The variable will be Connolly....If it looks like he can be healthy and revert to the form that had him as the most dangerous offensive player in the league for stretches last season, it might make it easier to let Briere walk and hope TC can fill those shoes...

 

I am the exact same way! Everytime I think I've got it figured out, the other one does something that makes me say "We can't lose him!" Both have been playing the best hockey of their lives for the past two years.

 

At the moment, I would say Drury is the one to sign...Just because there is nobody quite like him when considering his all-around game and what he brings off the ice. Briere is a one-of-a-kind as well, but Buffalo has several players who are similar in style: Connolly and Max. They may lack the complete offensive package of playmaking AND goal scoring that Briere has, but if healthy, they could potentially minimize the negative impact of Briere's departure.

 

FWIW, a guy I work with lives in Amherst, and his kid goes to school and is friends with one of Briere's kids. Briere's son told this guy's son that he will not be living around here next year....Take it with a grain of salt, but that's what my co-worker told me...

[Alaska Darin]

I am the exact same way! Everytime I think I've got it figured out, the other one does something that makes me say "We can't lose him!" Both have been playing the best hockey of their lives for the past two years.

 

At the moment, I would say Drury is the one to sign...Just because there is nobody quite like him when considering his all-around game and what he brings off the ice. Briere is a one-of-a-kind as well, but Buffalo has several players who are similar in style: Connolly and Max. They may lack the complete offensive package of playmaking AND goal scoring that Briere has, but if healthy, they could potentially minimize the negative impact of Briere's departure.

 

FWIW, a guy I work with lives in Amherst, and his kid goes to school and is friends with one of Briere's kids. Briere's son told this guy's son that he will not be living around here next year....Take it with a grain of salt, but that's what my co-worker told me...

If I kept one it'd be Drury - he just has the intangible around him. The issue with Briere is little guys tend to fall off quickly once they hit 30. I know someone out there is going to offer him a "max" or close to "max" contract but it won't be Buffalo, unfortunately.

 

As far as what Danny's kid said, I've seen his house. If he gets a new long term contract in Buffalo, he's going to build something bigger in a neighborhood with more space. I guarantee that.

[smokinandjokin]

If I kept one it'd be Drury - he just has the intangible around him. The issue with Briere is little guys tend to fall off quickly once they hit 30. I know someone out there is going to offer him a "max" or close to "max" contract but it won't be Buffalo, unfortunately.

 

As far as what Danny's kid said, I've seen his house. If he gets a new long term contract in Buffalo, he's going to build something bigger in a neighborhood with more space. I guarantee that.

 

I'd probably bet on Drury as well. More versitile, and harder to replace on AND off the ice. Briere scores huge goals, though, and that will be tough to lose. Guys like Roy and Stafford will have to step up...

 

Darcy can take solace in the fact that Buffalo sports fans are a logical bunch, and if the Sabres happen to win the Cup this year, I'm sure the fans will grant the franchise a nice grace period to organize their roster with cap-friendly deals.

[Buftex]

It's gotta be Drury. I would hate to lose either, but as "LongLiveRalph" says, the Sabres have more players who can piecemeal together what Briere brings to the offense, than they do to replace the role that Drury plays.

 

But hey, I am of the mindset, right now, to not even think about this stuff...I am looking forward to to the playoffs more this year, than I have anything in sports in some time. This kind of speculation seems to be the sole role the Bills fill for me these days. I want to keep the Sabres love immune!

 

When was the last time any of us rooted for a team that was a legit favorite to win it all...I am not going to be scared to be cocky about this team...next year doesn't come for a while!

 

GO Sabres!

[apuszczalowski]

For $6-7 million a year I'd let Drury go and re-sign Briere, thats really overpaying Drury, 5-5.5 mil tops for 5 years. Briere I would offer 6-7 million.

 

I would not want to lose either, and would rather see Connolly, Hecht, Kotalik go before either Drury or Briere, but if Darcy doesn't get his @ss in gear and start talking contrct, both will be gone. If either gets to sniff FA, they will not stay in Buffalo

[SHOUTBOX MONSTER!]

For $6-7 million a year I'd let Drury go and re-sign Briere, thats really overpaying Drury, 5-5.5 mil tops for 5 years. Briere I would offer 6-7 million.

 

I would not want to lose either, and would rather see Connolly, Hecht, Kotalik go before either Drury or Briere, but if Darcy doesn't get his @ss in gear and start talking contrct, both will be gone. If either gets to sniff FA, they will not stay in Buffalo

 

Why the hell would they talk contract now? This is the worst possible time for it. Not only would it be a distraction, but it would certainly tell the other guy that he's as good as gone.

 

Don't give them contracts yet. Give them the opportunity to earn a bigger offer in the playoffs. The season will end (at the latest) in early June. July 1st is the start of free agency and that is when Darcy can worry about it.

[The Dean]

Why the hell would they talk contract now? This is the worst possible time for it. Not only would it be a distraction, but it would certainly tell the other guy that he's as good as gone.

 

Don't give them contracts yet. Give them the opportunity to earn a bigger offer in the playoffs. The season will end (at the latest) in early June. July 1st is the start of free agency and that is when Darcy can worry about it.

 

 

??? We can't afford to sign them NOW, for Christ's sake. IF they are awesome in the playoffs, as I expect them to be, it will be that much harder to do later than now, IMO. Contract talk can be done at ANY time between GM and agent and should never really be a distraction to anybody. That's media speak.

 

Moving on...

 

I PM'd our pious Canadian friend (and Leafs' fan), millbank last night after the game and one of the things I NEEDED to say was, "Since the acquisition of Briere and Drury this team is a blue collar, but skilled phenomenon." As much as I credit Lindy (and to a lesser degree, Darcy) for this team's turn-around, it started, IMO with Briere and Drury. And, the team's consistent effort/heart, etc comes from these two guys, IMO.

 

I'm guessing we can't afford them both, but I'm sure hoping we can. These are the kind of players you want to be on your team until they retire, if financially possible.

[SHOUTBOX MONSTER!]

Contract talk can be done at ANY time between GM and agent and should never really be a distraction to anybody. That's media speak.

 

Moving on...

 

I PM'd our pious Canadian friend (and Leafs' fan), millbank last night after the game and one of the things I NEEDED to say was, "Since the acquisition of Briere and Drury this team is a blue collar, but skilled phenomenon." As much as I credit Lindy (and to a lesser degree, Darcy) for this team's turn-around, it started, IMO with Briere and Drury. And, the team's consistent effort/heart, etc comes from these two guys, IMO.

 

I'm guessing we can't afford them both, but I'm sure hoping we can. These are the kind of players you want to be on your team until they retire, if financially possible.

 

Darcy is not going to talk contract now, but I'm not sure if you were implying that or not. I do believe it would be a distraction for one player to know he's coming back and won't have to worry about his contract, while the other guy has to know he will be someplace completely different after the season ends. Plus, how will their teammates respond?

 

At the same time, if the Sabres are able to deal Kalinin and Kotalik (both are way overpaid and over-rated), they will at least have some wiggle room and they could potentially put contracts on the table for both Drury and Briere.

[The Dean]

Darcy is not going to talk contract now, but I'm not sure if you were implying that or not. I do believe it would be a distraction for one player to know he's coming back and won't have to worry about his contract, while the other guy has to know he will be someplace completely different after the season ends. Plus, how will their teammates respond?

 

 

 

 

Let me repeat for effect

of

 

I didn't say the players themselves should be siting in a room with Darcy instead of practicing. Their AGENTS negotiate with Darcy. The wheels should be in motion. You probably don't reach a full agreement before the end of the playoffs. If so, you don't have to ANNOUNCE the agreement, if you reach one until after the playoffs.

 

To wait until the season is over does just one thing, IMO...make the process end later.

 

If I'm Darcy, I want these guys to sign (or, at least have a working agreement) while they are still thrilled to be teammates on a successful team. They are doing their jobs now, and contract talk is part of that job. Once the season's over, they are (possibly) likely to want to take a month or two AWAY from everything hockey. Then what? You wait and wait to talk, in the meantime their agents get all kinds of offers and, a month or two after the high of winning the Stanly Cup (or losing on a bad call) has faded, $$$ becomes even more of an issue than it might be in the throws (throes?) of a playoff run.

 

Obviously, I don't know what really is best for any particular player. I just think agents and GMs jobs, to a large degree, are negotiating contracts. I'd like to see that process begin ASAP for two of our top players. The "distraction" stuff is nonsense, IMO. Agents don't play hockey...at least for the Sabres.

[The Dean]

What happened to that last EXCELLENT post. I wanted to respond, but it disappeared.

[Taro T]

... The wheels should be in motion. You probably don't reach a full agreement before the end of the playoffs. If so, you don't have to ANNOUNCE the agreement, if you reach one until after the playoffs.

 

To wait until the season is over does just one thing, IMO...make the process end later.

 

If I'm Darcy, I want these guys to sign (or, at least have a working agreement) while they are still thrilled to be teammates on a successful team. They are doing their jobs now, and contract talk is part of that job. Once the season's over, they are (possibly) likely to want to take a month or two AWAY from everything hockey. Then what? You wait and wait to talk, in the meantime their agents get all kinds of offers and, a month or two after the high of winning the Stanly Cup (or losing on a bad call) has faded, $$$ becomes even more of an issue than it might be in the throws (throes?) of a playoff run.

 

Obviously, I don't know what really is best for any particular player. I just think agents and GMs jobs, to a large degree, are negotiating contracts. I'd like to see that process begin ASAP for two of our top players. The "distraction" stuff is nonsense, IMO. Agents don't play hockey...at least for the Sabres.

Darcy stated a while back that he had discussions with their agents, but the way he said it made it sound like nothing remotely close to serious had been discussed. My guess as to why they haven't negotiated seriously since 1/1 when they finally could negotiate with Danny is they don't think they can afford to keep both of them AND keep the team intact currently and into the future. (I have no idea why they didn't negotiate with and work out a deal with Drury in the summer/ early part of the season (if in fact they didn't have serious negotiations back then, and all indications are they didn't). After Drury's fast start, his pricetag had to be high and hasn't gotten any lower; and Danny played very well prior to 1/1 as well and one has to assume that All Star Game MVP is something Danny's agent thinks deserves a premium.

 

I expect both players to end up with at least 4 year deals and wouldn't be surprised to see Drury's average out close to $6MM/year and Danny's over $7MM. (I'd be shocked if Drury's deal averages less than $5MM or if Danny's averages $6MM or less, or if either deal is only for a couple of years.)

 

I would also like to see deals worked out ASAP. I agree with you that Darcy should want both of these guys to sign now if he thinks they can both be fit under the cap and they don't have to jettison several players to get them signed, but if they believe they can only get 1 it probably does make sense to wait until after the playoffs to sign them at this time. (Although the cap is likely going up a little next year (it'll most likely be somewhere between $44-47MM) this team that was tight to the cap this year still needs to sign Vanek to a large raise (if not initiated by the Sabres, someone else will very likely give him an offer and I'd expect the Sabres to match if it isn't completely outrageous) and a few other guys are RFA's (Paetsch and Roy to name 2) as well and will likely get raises. If the team has a plan of setting aside a little money, say $2MM to cover injuries and or other needs for in-season cap relief, then that leaves little to no money for both guys without losing much more than just Biron and probably Teppo and Mair. If they did sign Briere and Drury today, what does that do to the morale of the midlevel guys who now know that at least 2, probably more like 4-5, will have to be gone after the season? It most likely doesn't effect their play, but that's not a definite.) My gut feel is that they'll make the strong play for Drury and reluctantly part ways with Briere. Were Chris signed today and Danny left hanging (or vice versa), I think we'd be looking at a divisive issue in the locker room at a time they don't need any distractions. (Additionally, if they do only plan on being able to sign 1 of the 2, how Connolly recovers could factor significantly into their decision on which one you keep and might be a reason for delay on the part of the Sabres.)

 

While the Sabres might not want to announce the deal the day it's signed, it does have to go to the league office and would be made public. If they work out a deal, but don't sign it right away, there is nothing in it for the player. Contracts are guaranteed, so if Drury has a deal in principle with the Sabres it is in his best interest to get Larry's sig on the SPC ASAP, because if he gets hurt in the interim he gets none of that guaranteed money. (Nor, not insignificantly, does the agent get any of that money until a contract is signed.) And Drury and Briere aren't eligible for any signing bonuses or other type of bonuses, so with the exception of including or not a no-trade clause, I don't see how they get "close" to an agreement but decide to table negotiations until later to finalize a deal. (There are no details to finalize. How much the player's paid in a particular year needs to get hammered out once total $'s are determined, but that would seem to be a relatively minor point; and not worth it in the player's (or agent's) eyes to not sign the day the deal is worked out.)

 

I disagree with your take on players not negotiating for a couple of months because free agency begins on 7/1. So something has to get done quickly after the playoffs AND as you mentioned, it's the agent that deals with it. The player can (hopefully) still be riding around to different Championship parties while his agent is doing the dirty work.

[The Dean]

Darcy stated a while back that he had discussions with their agents, but the way he said it made it sound like nothing remotely close to serious had been discussed. My guess as to why they haven't negotiated seriously since 1/1 when they finally could negotiate with Danny is they don't think they can afford to keep both of them AND keep the team intact currently and into the future. (I have no idea why they didn't negotiate with and work out a deal with Drury in the summer/ early part of the season (if in fact they didn't have serious negotiations back then, and all indications are they didn't). After Drury's fast start, his pricetag had to be high and hasn't gotten any lower; and Danny played very well prior to 1/1 as well and one has to assume that All Star Game MVP is something Danny's agent thinks deserves a premium.

 

I expect both players to end up with at least 4 year deals and wouldn't be surprised to see Drury's average out close to $6MM/year and Danny's over $7MM. (I'd be shocked if Drury's deal averages less than $5MM or if Danny's averages $6MM or less, or if either deal is only for a couple of years.)

 

I would also like to see deals worked out ASAP. I agree with you that Darcy should want both of these guys to sign now if he thinks they can both be fit under the cap and they don't have to jettison several players to get them signed, but if they believe they can only get 1 it probably does make sense to wait until after the playoffs to sign them at this time. (Although the cap is likely going up a little next year (it'll most likely be somewhere between $44-47MM) this team that was tight to the cap this year still needs to sign Vanek to a large raise (if not initiated by the Sabres, someone else will very likely give him an offer and I'd expect the Sabres to match if it isn't completely outrageous) and a few other guys are RFA's (Paetsch and Roy to name 2) as well and will likely get raises. If the team has a plan of setting aside a little money, say $2MM to cover injuries and or other needs for in-season cap relief, then that leaves little to no money for both guys without losing much more than just Biron and probably Teppo and Mair. If they did sign Briere and Drury today, what does that do to the morale of the midlevel guys who now know that at least 2, probably more like 4-5, will have to be gone after the season? It most likely doesn't effect their play, but that's not a definite.) My gut feel is that they'll make the strong play for Drury and reluctantly part ways with Briere. Were Chris signed today and Danny left hanging (or vice versa), I think we'd be looking at a divisive issue in the locker room at a time they don't need any distractions. (Additionally, if they do only plan on being able to sign 1 of the 2, how Connolly recovers could factor significantly into their decision on which one you keep and might be a reason for delay on the part of the Sabres.)

 

While the Sabres might not want to announce the deal the day it's signed, it does have to go to the league office and would be made public. If they work out a deal, but don't sign it right away, there is nothing in it for the player. Contracts are guaranteed, so if Drury has a deal in principle with the Sabres it is in his best interest to get Larry's sig on the SPC ASAP, because if he gets hurt in the interim he gets none of that guaranteed money. (Nor, not insignificantly, does the agent get any of that money until a contract is signed.) And Drury and Briere aren't eligible for any signing bonuses or other type of bonuses, so with the exception of including or not a no-trade clause, I don't see how they get "close" to an agreement but decide to table negotiations until later to finalize a deal. (There are no details to finalize. How much the player's paid in a particular year needs to get hammered out once total $'s are determined, but that would seem to be a relatively minor point; and not worth it in the player's (or agent's) eyes to not sign the day the deal is worked out.)

 

I disagree with your take on players not negotiating for a couple of months because free agency begins on 7/1. So something has to get done quickly after the playoffs AND as you mentioned, it's the agent that deals with it. The player can (hopefully) still be riding around to different Championship parties while his agent is doing the dirty work.

 

The excellent post returns!

 

Thanks, Dave. This all makes a lot of sense, and your edit answered most of my questions. I'd like to think a team and a player can still have a "gentleman's agreement", but I may be living in the past. Hockey players may be a little different breed than other pro athletes, but many pros have been known to shut it all down for awhile after the season (probably for spite and negotiating reasons) if the deal doesn't get done before the end of the season.

 

Let's get back to the area where we (mostly) agree. I'd like to see them go HARD to get them both signed and damn the consequences. Losing one, or possibly BOTH of these guys, would be devastating to this team, IMHO. They are the straws that stir this drink.

[Taro T]

Thanks, Dave. This all makes a lot of sense, and your edit answered most of my questions. I'd like to think a team and a player can still have a "gentleman's agreement", but I may be living in the past. Hockey players may be a little different breed than other pro athletes, but many pros have been known to shut it all down for awhile after the season (probably for spite and negotiating reasons) if the deal doesn't get done before the end of the season.

 

Let's get back to the area where we (mostly) agree. I'd like to see them go HARD to get them both signed and damn the consequences. Losing one, or possibly BOTH of these guys, would be devastating to this team, IMHO. They are the straws that stir this drink.

Even if both parties were willing to have a "gentleman's agreement", I think Article 26 which deals with circumvention of the CBA and the salary cap itself would prevent one from happening.

 

Agreed about losing both Drury and Briere. The team would still be strong, but would be at least 2, probably 3-4, years away from being a legit contender again. That would be a heck of a lot of leadership lost. Especially if Timmy can come back next year at 95%+ of where he was in the playoffs last year, and perhaps they re-sign Zubrus, I think the additional maturation of guys like Pominville, Vanek, Max, and Stafford could make up for a lot of the offense they'd lose if Danny walks.

 

I just don't see how they replace the intangibles that Drury brings if he walks. The guy has won at every level in every sport he plays. I don't want to see them lose Danny, but am almost resigned to that. I will be EXTREMELY unhappy if Chris walks.

 

(As an aside, as outrageous as Danny's request for nearly $9MM over 3 years looked 2 years ago, can you say "bargain"? Not only would it have saved money in the long run, it also would have put his contract up 1 year after Drury's which should have made it easier to negotiate with Chris during the season for a few reasons.)

[The Dean]

I just don't see how they replace the intangibles that Drury brings if he walks. The guy has won at every level in every sport he plays. I don't want to see them lose Danny, but am almost resigned to that. I will be EXTREMELY unhappy if Chris walks.

 

Agreed. Drury is a MUST. At least that's what I think today. Ask me again another day and I might say it's Danny. Seriously, Drury's "intangible skill set" (I just made that up) is the one most needed by this team.

 

 

As an aside, as outrageous as Danny's request for nearly $9MM over 3 years looked 2 years ago, can you say "bargain"? Not only would it have saved money in the long run, it also would have put his contract up 1 year after Drury's which should have made it easier to negotiate with Chris during the season for a few reasons

 

That's the fact, Jack...er, Dave.

 

Thanks for the VERY informative take, D B.

[apuszczalowski]

The problem is, if you let them go without getting atleast a prelimenary deal in place now, it will only put them one step closer to becoming FA.

 

Once the seasons is over and if Buffalo wins the cup, it will be mid June, with july 1 only weeks away, why wouldn't both of them hold off signing a deal until they see whats available. Whats the rush to sign a new contract for them? They might as well see what they are worth around the league. its not like Buffalo is making it a priority to keep either of them (if it was a priority, both would be having new contracts written up) Their agents should be fired if either is allowed to sign a deal before atleast testing the market, unless Buffalo pays league max for either of them. You let either test the market, and they are as good as gone