The Holocaust is offensive

[SilverNRed]

Here's a fun article. Try to read it and not barf.

 

Daily Mail

 

Schools are dropping the Holocaust from history lessons to avoid offending Muslim pupils, a Government-backed study has revealed.

 

It found some teachers are reluctant to cover the atrocity for fear of upsetting students whose beliefs include Holocaust denial.

In other words, don't teach historical facts that might not jive with kids' goofy, conspiracy-theory beliefs.

 

And it gets worse:

There is also resistance to tackling the 11th century Crusades - where Christians fought Muslim armies for control of Jerusalem - because lessons often contradict what is taught in local mosques.

 

The findings have prompted claims that some schools are using history 'as a vehicle for promoting political correctness'.

 

The study, funded by the Department for Education and Skills, looked into 'emotive and controversial' history teaching in primary and secondary schools.

 

It found some teachers are dropping courses covering the Holocaust at the earliest opportunity over fears Muslim pupils might express anti-Semitic and anti-Israel reactions in class.

 

The researchers gave the example of a secondary school in an unnamed northern city, which dropped the Holocaust as a subject for GCSE coursework.

 

The report said teachers feared confronting 'anti-Semitic sentiment and Holocaust denial among some Muslim pupils'.

 

It added: "In another department, the Holocaust was taught despite anti-Semitic sentiment among some pupils.

 

"But the same department deliberately avoided teaching the Crusades at Key Stage 3 (11- to 14-year-olds) because their balanced treatment of the topic would have challenged what was taught in some local mosques."

 

Nice to see the Brits are phasing out history in schools. Facts are lame anyway.

[OCinBuffalo]

And why shouldn't this happen? The truth, the real truth - (I know some of you, Molsen_Golden, have no idea what I'm talking about), has been driven from our lives in favor of ideology. This has been going on in social sciences/psychology for years. What's so shocking about it making it's way to history? The PC bullsh!t train had to go somewhere next. Why not history? Since nothing, especially not God, is above the PC ideology, where does history get off being truthful if it doesn't conform to PC?

 

Political Correctness is now a truth-free substitute that has all the taste, without any of the calories and nasty things like, perspective, honor, remembrance, insight, regret, and wisdom. Why bother with those nasty things when we can simply forget that the Nazi's killed 10 million people, 6 million of those Jews, in those camps? Never mind that there is something to be learned from this sordid tale. Never mind the fact that the EXACT SAME reasoning that was in place that allowed that event to occur, IS NOW being used by the crazy Muslims(few, not all) as their pretext for murder. Nope, sitting down young Muslims and MAKING them learn these facts has no possible value at all , since it might offend them , and gives direct contradiction, or at least adds perspective, to whatever BS ideology they are "learning" at the Mosque. It might make young Hassan think twice before he straps on that Suicide Bomb(make no mistake the guys that attacked the trains in London were British subjects and had been for years if not born there), but, it is offensive = can't be tolerated.

 

How about this question? Since it has been confirmed that Stalin killed at least 3 million Jews also(possibly even more than the Nazis), are we supposed to deny that he existed? See, he pretty much killed Jews for the same reason Hitler did: he didn't like them. The difference is: he gave those orders personally. And, the Russians were, depending on one's perspective, too stupid or too smart to keep the exacting records of this atrocity with the same efficiency as the Nazis. So you can't use a word for this, since it wasn't a formal operation - no records, no hierarchy, therefore, you can't deny the existence of a word that isn't used. The only thing left to deny is the person who gave the orders.

 

So, if you don't want to offend Muslims, now you have to deny the existence of Joseph Stalin, or at least his existence as Socialist Savior of the Human Race(all those with Socialist tendencies - please stfu and sit down), because he was the instrument of death, not some abstracted word like the Holocaust. By the time we get done denying things, how much do you want to bet that all we will have left is history according to the Koran? Hmm. Would that be politically correct?

 

How about this: Why don't we simply deny the existence of Muslims? This way when they complain about being offended, we can simply say: we can't acknowledge your complaints, since you don't exist. That makes about as much sense as PC "truth" being used here as "reasoning", so why not?

[Passepartout]

Rent Schindler's List as it really hits home. One of the best movies ever made if not THE BEST!!

[John Adams]

Rent Schindler's List as it really hits home. One of the best movies ever made if not THE BEST!!

 

Really?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Really?

 

That was some sterling insight, wasn't it? There's a good book out there called The Beast Reawakens, I think it's recommended reading for those who want to see what influence Nazism carries today all over the globe. This would include the Middle East.

[GG]

Congratulations, Europe for trying to narrow the high school education gap with the US.

[molson_golden2002]

What a great topic! The writing of history. Not exactly a scientific exercise, is it? Careful how you throw around the idea that the “facts” need to be adhered to, there is a tremendous amount of blame to go on in every direction. Denying the holocaust happened is despicable, of course. Teaching children that it never happened is even worse. Before anyone wants to run off and use this in their racist agenda to kill all Arabs, though, let’s at least put it in perspective. Israel seems to be just as historically challenged as other nations:

 

Panel slams inclusion of pre-1967 borders in school maps

 

By Or Kashti, Haaretz Correspondent

 

The Knesset Education and Culture Committee decided on Monday to summon Education Minister Yuli Tamir to answer questions about her decision to include Israel's pre-1967 border in textbook maps.??During the session, Kadima party and right-wing MKs lashed out at Tamir for her decision made two weeks ago to include the so-called Green Line border which excludes the West Bank, Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights from Israel.??National Religious Party Chairman MK Zevulun Orlev presented the committee with the 1967 Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee decision to remove the Green line -as well as the pre-1948 British Mandate border- from all but historical maps.?

 

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/802646.html

 

And Israelis have been as bad at anyone in manipulating history. A new generation of Israeli scholars is challenging the official myths of Israel, but they are being called traitors for it. A good read:

 

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0795/9507006.htm

 

There, of course, is the exploitation of the Holocaust for gain by Jews. Isn’t that pretty bad, too? BTW, Ray Finklestein is a Jew who argues there is a “Holocaust Industry.”

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry

 

I’ll add that Japan is in a fuss right now over the “Comfort Women” of WW2 and whether that should be taught in schools. And judging by the reaction on this board of slavery being the cause of the Civil War, America is hardly innocent of the official spreading of ignorance.

[molson_golden2002]

Rent Schindler's List as it really hits home. One of the best movies ever made if not THE BEST!!

Great movie! And yes, perhaps one of the best ever. Too bad there were not more historical films like this. I can think of a hundred topics that need to be covered like that

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

What a great topic! The writing of history. Not exactly a scientific exercise, is it? Careful how you throw around the idea that the “facts” need to be adhered to, there is a tremendous amount of blame to go on in every direction. Denying the holocaust happened is despicable, of course. Teaching children that it never happened is even worse. Before anyone wants to run off and use this in their racist agenda to kill all Arabs, though, let’s at least put it in perspective. Israel seems to be just as historically challenged as other nations:

 

Panel slams inclusion of pre-1967 borders in school maps

 

By Or Kashti, Haaretz Correspondent

 

The Knesset Education and Culture Committee decided on Monday to summon Education Minister Yuli Tamir to answer questions about her decision to include Israel's pre-1967 border in textbook maps.??During the session, Kadima party and right-wing MKs lashed out at Tamir for her decision made two weeks ago to include the so-called Green Line border which excludes the West Bank, Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights from Israel.??National Religious Party Chairman MK Zevulun Orlev presented the committee with the 1967 Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee decision to remove the Green line -as well as the pre-1948 British Mandate border- from all but historical maps.?

 

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/802646.html

 

And Israelis have been as bad at anyone in manipulating history. A new generation of Israeli scholars is challenging the official myths of Israel, but they are being called traitors for it. A good read:

 

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0795/9507006.htm

 

There, of course, is the exploitation of the Holocaust for gain by Jews. Isn’t that pretty bad, too? BTW, Ray Finklestein is a Jew who argues there is a “Holocaust Industry.”

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_Industry

 

I’ll add that Japan is in a fuss right now over the “Comfort Women” of WW2 and whether that should be taught in schools. And judging by the reaction on this board of slavery being the cause of the Civil War, America is hardly innocent of the official spreading of ignorance.

 

WTF? Israel earned the borders it has today. 67 was self-defense and 73 was also self-defense.

[molson_golden2002]

How about this question? Since it has been confirmed that Stalin killed at least 3 million Jews also(possibly even more than the Nazis), are we supposed to deny that he existed? See, he pretty much killed Jews for the same reason Hitler did: he didn't like them. The difference is: he gave those orders personally. And, the Russians were, depending on one's perspective, too stupid or too smart to keep the exacting records of this atrocity with the same efficiency as the Nazis. So you can't use a word for this, since it wasn't a formal operation - no records, no hierarchy, therefore, you can't deny the existence of a word that isn't used. The only thing left to deny is the person who gave the orders.

I can't answer to all the ignorant crap you spew, but will address this. Why should we just care about the Jews he killed? How many people died on the Russian front? The Ukraine suffered more [perhaps 10 million deaths?] than any other region from Soviet and Nazi policies of mass murder, yet that isn't taught in schools and there are no museums in Washington--paid for by our taxes, btw. And your insanity is showing when you leap out and say people are denying Stalin's murders. As if there isn't enough outrage already, you need to invent more, connect it to socialism, and I assume, Liberals. You are just an idiot

[molson_golden2002]

WTF? Israel earned the borders it has today. 67 was self-defense and 73 was also self-defense.

Earned the borders? Did Germany earn the borders through Poland in 1939? Israel started the war in 1967. Anyway, even if they were 100% in the right--The UN [see resolution 242] and United states said they were not--what's the harm of showing pre-1967 borders to students? Hiding something?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Earned the borders? Did Germany earn the borders through Poland in 1939? Israel started the war in 1967. Anyway, even if they were 100% in the right--The UN [see resolution 242] and United states said they were not--what's the harm of showing pre-1967 borders to students? Hiding something?

 

Poland was never a threat to Germany. Jordan, Syria and Egypt WERE threats to Israel.

[molson_golden2002]

Poland was never a threat to Germany. Jordan, Syria and Egypt WERE threats to Israel.

The war was over resources. Isreal just decided to take all the water out of the Jordan river for themselves, everyone else, be damned. Water is a pretty important resouce over there. When Israel's neighbors were deciding to do something about it Isreal launched a sneak attack against them, swallowed up a ton of land, and now refuses to teach their kids about it, which is the main point of this thread.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The war was over resources. Isreal just decided to take all the water out of the Jordan river for themselves, everyone else, be damned. Water is a pretty important resouce over there. When Israel's neighbors were deciding to do something about it Isreal launched a sneak attack against them, swallowed up a ton of land, and now refuses to teach their kids about it, which is the main point of this thread.

 

OK, and that's Israel's fault HOW? Their neighbors were ready to strike them, they just beat them to the punch.

[DC Tom]

The war was over resources. Isreal just decided to take all the water out of the Jordan river for themselves, everyone else, be damned. Water is a pretty important resouce over there. When Israel's neighbors were deciding to do something about it Isreal launched a sneak attack against them, swallowed up a ton of land, and now refuses to teach their kids about it, which is the main point of this thread.

 

Anyone else struck by the recasting of the historical basis of the Six Day War so as to make Israel's motives appear as sinister as possible?

 

I mean, really...doubt the validity of Israel's actions all you want (I certainly do, for reasons that would escape your average turnip like molson_goldfish). But isn't rewriting the history of the conflict a de facto admission that the actual history of the conflict doesn't support the assumption of Israel's sinister intent that you're trying so hard to prove?

[molson_golden2002]

OK, and that's Israel's fault HOW? Their neighbors were ready to strike them, they just beat them to the punch.

Yup, stole the water and then attacked them and now they won't teach that in their schools.

[DC Tom]

Yup, stole the water and then attacked them and now they won't teach that in their schools.

 

Stole the water, and THEN attacked them?

[molson_golden2002]

Anyone else struck by the recasting of the historical basis of the Six Day War so as to make Israel's motives appear as sinister as possible?

 

I mean, really...doubt the validity of Israel's actions all you want (I certainly do, for reasons that would escape your average turnip like molson_goldfish). But isn't rewriting the history of the conflict a de facto admission that the actual history of the conflict doesn't support the assumption of Israel's sinister intent that you're trying so hard to prove?

But then why the aversion to showing a simple map in Israeli schools of the REAL--see fact--pre-1967 border? Let's say Israel was 100% right. If they were, why are they afraid of their kids seeing a historical map? Isn't that something of a de facto admission itself?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yup, stole the water and then attacked them and now they won't teach that in their schools.

 

LOL...I fail to see how ANYONE can fault a nation whose neighbors were threatening imminent violence and the theft of a vital resource from striking first!

 

The Arab states got what was coming to them in 67.

[DC Tom]

But then why the aversion to showing a simple map in Israeli schools of the REAL--see fact--pre-1967 border? Let's say Israel was 100% right. If they were, why are they afraid of their kids seeing a historical map? Isn't that something of a de facto admission itself?

 

Is that the real border? What about the 1948 border?

 

Talking about Israeli borders is always a slippery conversation. What makes the land annexed after 1948 any more or less Israeli than that annexed in 1967? Understand THAT little datum, instead of picking an arbitrary date and saying "This is when the borders of Israel were set!", and maybe you'll actually gain some insight into the Arab-Israeli conflict.