Dallas has been trade friendly in the past & they need a CB.

[Tipster19]

There has been talk CB Anthony Henry is losing a step and that the Cowboys are considering moving him to FS. I could see Dallas being interested in CB Leon Hall for his replacement if they did make this move. The Cowboys pick at #22 and that should be far back enough to just miss out on Hall and Darrelle Revis. Swapping 1st rd picks with them could net us Jones and possibly their 4th rd pick (#105). I'd much rather have Julius Jones vs Chris Brown at this point and his contract should be alot friendlier than Michael Turner's. I see Tatum Bell being suggested in other posts but that guy is a fumbler, that's why Shanahan traded him.

 

If we were to make this trade we would be picking up another draft pick and selecting at the #22 slot instead at #12 which would be a big difference in contract money. If LB Posluszny isn't available then Jon Beason would be. That would be two areas of need addressed and still leaves us in a great position to take a quality CB in the 2nd rd. The question that you would have to consider is if Willis would be the guy that we have to have. If so, then we can't do nothing and just better take him with our original 1st rd pick at #12.

[H2o]

I like Julius Jones alot. I'm a big ND fan as well, so I watched almost every college game he played too. He runs hard and has pretty good speed to go along with it. He's pretty agile also. I'd take him over Chris Brown ANY day out of the week. This possibility is interesting too. I heard the king of all draft tards, Mel Kiper, say that the Bengals were eying Beason though. That means he would be off the board at pick #18. Posluzny should be there unless someone moves up to get him. Maybe NE, just to try and stick it to us and because Bruschi is getting old.

[Pyrite Gal]

There has been talk CB Anthony Henry is losing a step and that the Cowboys are considering moving him to FS. I could see Dallas being interested in CB Leon Hall for his replacement if they did make this move. The Cowboys pick at #22 and that should be far back enough to just miss out on Hall and Darrelle Revis. Swapping 1st rd picks with them could net us Jones and possibly their 4th rd pick (#105). I'd much rather have Julius Jones vs Chris Brown at this point and his contract should be alot friendlier than Michael Turner's. I see Tatum Bell being suggested in other posts but that guy is a fumbler, that's why Shanahan traded him.

 

If we were to make this trade we would be picking up another draft pick and selecting at the #22 slot instead at #12 which would be a big difference in contract money. If LB Posluszny isn't available then Jon Beason would be. That would be two areas of need addressed and still leaves us in a great position to take a quality CB in the 2nd rd. The question that you would have to consider is if Willis would be the guy that we have to have. If so, then we can't do nothing and just better take him with our original 1st rd pick at #12.

 

This certainly would make sense for the Bills as they likely need to pick up an FA RB anyway (and even with this pick it still is not outrageous for them to pick up as a many as two more RBs in the draft as they are likely to have 5 total RBs (including FBs) and there is no certainty whatsoever that they have more than 2 RBs on the current roster (A-Train and Cieslak at FB).

 

They certainly need at least 1 LB from this draft and since one of their LB needs is for a starter, it would seem to be far more likely they get an OLB who MAY handle the starting job well as a rookie since given the diverse role called for of an MLB in the Cover 2, even the best MLB in this draft Willis is virtually certain to undergo some ugly struggles as any rookie learns how to be a vet.

 

Rookies can start at most positions, but making good reads is going to be so critical for the MLB who is required to both play the run like a DT and play the pass like a safety, Willis may end up as a Bill leaving the same impression he left in the Senior Bowl. His closing and catch-up speed is quite impressive but he got to show it a bit chasing down receivers who had toasted him in pass coverage.

 

Jones is a fairly flawed player who has yet to indicate he is more than a middlin' talent RB starter at best. However, this is more than A-Train has shown since at least Jones put up his 1000 yards last season rather than 2003 which is the last time A-Train hit this mark and in addition Jones started all 16 games as RB last year while A-Train;s max was 13 in 2003.

 

I'd make this deal if i were the Bills since there seems to be potential OLB at least contributor and possible starter talent even if Pos is gone and he should be there and if SF is basically blowing smoke about their interest (as all teams do during the draft) then Kiper and other pundits may ne right that Willis may even be there at #22. Word is that he can play SLB and it makes far more sense for the production of the Bills D in 07 and also for Willis learning the NFL for him to start at Sam rather than at Mike,

[junior]

We would have our runningback tandem in J.Jones/A-Train. Then, either Posluszny, Timmons, and Beason will still be on the board at 22. That would be a good trade

[obie_wan]

For a coach whose whoel offensive is geared to running the football and controlling the clock - why would he want to get rid of a young tailback

 

- unless that back is severely flawed and injury prone.

 

No thanks.

 

Do what Parcells did and draft a RB inthe mid-rounds like Marion Barber and make him your starter.

[Beerball]

For a coach whose whoel offensive is geared to running the football and controlling the clock - why would he want to get rid of a young tailback

 

- unless that back is severely flawed and injury prone.

 

No thanks.

 

Do what Parcells did and draft a RB inthe mid-rounds like Marion Barber and make him your starter.

Jones has been a disappointment in Dallas, and some of that might be tuna's doing. The local word is he didn't hit holes hard, and never was able to get it into gear. Speculation is that tuna was inside the kid's head. He was scared because of tuna rants, ran with both hands on the ball so as not to fumble and be banished to the scrapheap. This took away his elusiveness etc. While a change of scenery might do him good I would pass on him.

[BuffaloWings]

Not a bad idea, but I can't see Marv doing this. If he could either draft the defensive player he wanted or get Julius in a trade (giving up said pick), he'd take that draft pick.

[Pyrite Gal]

Jones has been a disappointment in Dallas, and some of that might be tuna's doing. The local word is he didn't hit holes hard, and never was able to get it into gear. Speculation is that tuna was inside the kid's head. He was scared because of tuna rants, ran with both hands on the ball so as not to fumble and be banished to the scrapheap. This took away his elusiveness etc. While a change of scenery might do him good I would pass on him.

 

It sounds like a classic case where a change of teams might be just the thing to put a player in a different space to be all that he can be. I think for the Bills, the main argument would be not whether Jones is any good, but simply whether he is better than what you got.

 

Unfortunately at RB the standard for the "bird-in-the-hand" at RB is A. Thomas who since 2003 at best as been a back-up performer. It is not an extremely have level for Jones to reach to make this a "plus" move for the Bills.

[Pyrite Gal]

For a coach whose whoel offensive is geared to running the football and controlling the clock - why would he want to get rid of a young tailback

 

- unless that back is severely flawed and injury prone.

 

No thanks.

 

Do what Parcells did and draft a RB inthe mid-rounds like Marion Barber and make him your starter.

 

The stats indicate little that Jones is injury prone (again stats are not conclusive of anything in and of themselves but they are an indicator one should not simply ignore). He STARTED all 16 games at RB for the Cowpokes last year so if you want to focus on the 11 games he did miss in his first two seasons, he certainly solved an injury issues last year.

 

If you want to site his missing starts and games due to injuries as a showing of injury proneness, then take a look at A-Train's record of missing games Jones would be a trade up for us in this regard.

 

In terms of assessing whether he is flawed. Clearly he is not a great RB and his production so far is average at best. However, here in the real world (as real as the fantasy of NFL entertainment gets) the question is not whether he meets some theoretical standard of perfection (he does not) but simply whether he would be a trade up over what you have or reasonably could have for the price you are giving up.

 

I think there is little question that the performance last year of 16 starts at RB with just short of 1100 yards though fairly mundane is better than what we got at RB right now.

 

Second in terms of what we give up, we give up little in this trade and in fact we would gain if Dallas were "nice" enough to give us this deal. We get an extra choice out of the deal and still retain our 1st. We would in fact give up the #12 for a 22, but once your pick drops out of the top 10 as you yourself have pointed out by advocating we trade up, you really are not getting a player with an excellent shot at starting immediately.

 

We have too many needs to be filled right now in order for this team to be competitive, that there really are no players worth mortgaging the present for in order to trade up.

 

This deal as presented (speaking of fantasy) would give us a great leg up in going RBBC, give us a shot to at least have an average RB starter, and give us an additional resource to increase competition and add depth.

 

I think the deal as presented advantages us to such an extent it likely is not possible and if it is its a no-brainer.

 

In terms of Parcells. I guarantee he will not suffer even one loss as HC this year!

[obie_wan]

The stats indicate little that Jones is injury prone (again stats are not conclusive of anything in and of themselves but they are an indicator one should not simply ignore). He STARTED all 16 games at RB for the Cowpokes last year so if you want to focus on the 11 games he did miss in his first two seasons, he certainly solved an injury issues last year.

 

If you want to site his missing starts and games due to injuries as a showing of injury proneness, then take a look at A-Train's record of missing games Jones would be a trade up for us in this regard.

 

In terms of assessing whether he is flawed. Clearly he is not a great RB and his production so far is average at best. However, here in the real world (as real as the fantasy of NFL entertainment gets) the question is not whether he meets some theoretical standard of perfection (he does not) but simply whether he would be a trade up over what you have or reasonably could have for the price you are giving up.

 

I think there is little question that the performance last year of 16 starts at RB with just short of 1100 yards though fairly mundane is better than what we got at RB right now.

 

Second in terms of what we give up, we give up little in this trade and in fact we would gain if Dallas were "nice" enough to give us this deal. We get an extra choice out of the deal and still retain our 1st. We would in fact give up the #12 for a 22, but once your pick drops out of the top 10 as you yourself have pointed out by advocating we trade up, you really are not getting a player with an excellent shot at starting immediately.

 

We have too many needs to be filled right now in order for this team to be competitive, that there really are no players worth mortgaging the present for in order to trade up.

 

This deal as presented (speaking of fantasy) would give us a great leg up in going RBBC, give us a shot to at least have an average RB starter, and give us an additional resource to increase competition and add depth.

 

I think the deal as presented advantages us to such an extent it likely is not possible and if it is its a no-brainer.

 

In terms of Parcells. I guarantee he will not suffer even one loss as HC this year!

 

If you are going to sign a previouly underperforming RB- I would take a chance with Chris Brown.

 

Julius Jones is exactly what we don't want - an inconsistent fumbler

 

Jones may have dressed for all games, but he sure didn't get the critical carries and was always dinged.

 

not thanks

[ans4e64]

Great trade for the Bills and probably the Cowboys as well if that happened. I'd do it in a flash.

[Phil Indablanc]

There has been talk CB Anthony Henry is losing a step and that the Cowboys are considering moving him to FS. I could see Dallas being interested in CB Leon Hall for his replacement if they did make this move. The Cowboys pick at #22 and that should be far back enough to just miss out on Hall and Darrelle Revis. Swapping 1st rd picks with them could net us Jones and possibly their 4th rd pick (#105). I'd much rather have Julius Jones vs Chris Brown at this point and his contract should be alot friendlier than Michael Turner's. I see Tatum Bell being suggested in other posts but that guy is a fumbler, that's why Shanahan traded him.

 

If we were to make this trade we would be picking up another draft pick and selecting at the #22 slot instead at #12 which would be a big difference in contract money. If LB Posluszny isn't available then Jon Beason would be. That would be two areas of need addressed and still leaves us in a great position to take a quality CB in the 2nd rd. The question that you would have to consider is if Willis would be the guy that we have to have. If so, then we can't do nothing and just better take him with our original 1st rd pick at #12.

 

 

Dallas's 4th rd pick is 122 not 104

[WVUFootball29]

There has been talk CB Anthony Henry is losing a step and that the Cowboys are considering moving him to FS. I could see Dallas being interested in CB Leon Hall for his replacement if they did make this move. The Cowboys pick at #22 and that should be far back enough to just miss out on Hall and Darrelle Revis. Swapping 1st rd picks with them could net us Jones and possibly their 4th rd pick (#105). I'd much rather have Julius Jones vs Chris Brown at this point and his contract should be alot friendlier than Michael Turner's. I see Tatum Bell being suggested in other posts but that guy is a fumbler, that's why Shanahan traded him.

 

If we were to make this trade we would be picking up another draft pick and selecting at the #22 slot instead at #12 which would be a big difference in contract money. If LB Posluszny isn't available then Jon Beason would be. That would be two areas of need addressed and still leaves us in a great position to take a quality CB in the 2nd rd. The question that you would have to consider is if Willis would be the guy that we have to have. If so, then we can't do nothing and just better take him with our original 1st rd pick at #12.

 

My problem with this trade is it doesnt fit the value chart for swapping drafts picks in our favor. JJ and his issues or the lack thereof aside, the Bills 1st pick is worth 1200 points according to most value charts and the Cowboys pick is worth 780 and their 4th rounder is worth only 50 for a total of 830. 370 points difference in value is a lot after the first round even with JJ in the mix. 370 points is the 48th selection overall and I dont see JJ as worth that much any more. There would need to be some conditional picks in the 2008 draft to make this trade worth it.

[Pyrite Gal]

If you are going to sign a previouly underperforming RB- I would take a chance with Chris Brown.

 

Julius Jones is exactly what we don't want - an inconsistent fumbler

 

Jones may have dressed for all games, but he sure didn't get the critical carries and was always dinged.

 

not thanks

 

Actually, there would seem to be a world of difference between the output of Chris Brown and the output of Julius Jones that is not in Brown's favor.

 

Given that you are right that we are going to be taking a chance with any RB we acquire, the choice between these two is taking a chance on a player who 2006 line was was appearing in 5 games (3 of which he started) where rushed all 41 times last year amassing 156 yards for a 3.8 YPC.

 

Jones on the other hand had an average year at best but rather than simply dressing for all 16 games was in fact the RB starter in all these games and got this job with a credible #2 Marion Barber behind him. Parcells is no shrinking violet and my sense is that if he was so displeased with Jones then to the bench he goes.

 

I did not watch the Cowpokes last season so I can not say to what level Jones was dinged, but it certainly was never bad enough it either stopped him from starting or even reduced whatever effectiveness he had so that Parcells sat him.

 

I'd be curious to know what specifics we are talking about here as there is nothing in his stats to indicate that there was a big time injury issue (or much of one at all) last year and Parcells does not seem like one to coddle a player along if he really sucks and there is an alternative available.

 

I definitely have heard of some fumble issues regarding Jones, though last I heard was a diagnosis that his yardage totals were actually limited by his efforts to improve this problem and by holding onto the ball with two hands whenever he was in danger he had made himself into an average yardage gainer.

 

However, the bottomline for us is not to get fooled into comparing whatever alternatives against some perfection standard, but this deal if true is something we can easily work with and on the face of it bodes far less risk of injuries than Brown and far more production than Brown as well.

[H2o]

If you are going to sign a previouly underperforming RB- I would take a chance with Chris Brown.

 

Julius Jones is exactly what we don't want - an inconsistent fumbler

 

Jones may have dressed for all games, but he sure didn't get the critical carries and was always dinged.

 

not thanks

 

 

So was Tiki Barber until he started to carry the ball differently. Maybe that's all Thomas needs to do is try the "Tiki Technique". I still believe that it would be a good trade for us. Jones is a solid back. I wouldn't swap picks and take Jones straight up though. They'd have to throw in their 3rd rounder or something else as well. Then we could package a couple of picks together and move up to get someone else we really wanted in the draft, maybe in the early second round. Someone like Eric Wright (CB UNLV), a WR like Steve Smith (USC), or a second LB after we get Beason, Posluzny, or Timmons. Maybe David Harris, ILB from Michigan. Or even Tim Shaw who was Posluzny's running mate at Penn St. and performed exceptionally well in his workouts. Then we could move Posluzny to his position of comfort at OLB, have Shaw at the other OLB position, and Crowell playing the middle. I think that would be a LB core that would be something special for years to come barring serious injury.

[John Adams]

Julius Jones?!?! Jesus H people: get a grip. Why would the Bills give up anything more than a 5th for the guy? He hasn't even shown he's below average so far in the NFL. He has one season of just barely clearing 1000 yards. On a run-happy team.

[Band of Merriman]

Julius Jones?!?! Jesus H people: get a grip. Why would the Bills give up anything more than a 5th for the guy? He hasn't even shown he's below average so far in the NFL. He has one season of just barely clearing 1000 yards. On a run-happy team.

As a Bills fan in Dallas I'm very up on the Cowgirls. Early in Jones' career he was heavily criticized by the Tuna for taking himself out of games due to getting dinged. Parcell's expected him to be tougher and play through the pain. Jones never did that well. Barber has been playing a greater role in the offense. It's to the point that when inside the 10 it's Barber that's in the game and not Jones. I could see Barber moving into the starting role if Jones stays in Dallas, so I think they'd be open to this trade scenario.

 

That being said, the 'boys o'line has not been good for the last several years and I would like to see this deal happen, if Marv was confident that we'd be able to get Poz or Willis (if he truly slips this far) at 22. If he feels we can get Peterson at 12 then I stay right where we are. Peterson would be the best back we've had since Thurman.

[obie_wan]

Actually, there would seem to be a world of difference between the output of Chris Brown and the output of Julius Jones that is not in Brown's favor.

 

Given that you are right that we are going to be taking a chance with any RB we acquire, the choice between these two is taking a chance on a player who 2006 line was was appearing in 5 games (3 of which he started) where rushed all 41 times last year amassing 156 yards for a 3.8 YPC.

 

Jones on the other hand had an average year at best but rather than simply dressing for all 16 games was in fact the RB starter in all these games and got this job with a credible #2 Marion Barber behind him. Parcells is no shrinking violet and my sense is that if he was so displeased with Jones then to the bench he goes.

 

I did not watch the Cowpokes last season so I can not say to what level Jones was dinged, but it certainly was never bad enough it either stopped him from starting or even reduced whatever effectiveness he had so that Parcells sat him.

 

I'd be curious to know what specifics we are talking about here as there is nothing in his stats to indicate that there was a big time injury issue (or much of one at all) last year and Parcells does not seem like one to coddle a player along if he really sucks and there is an alternative available.

 

I definitely have heard of some fumble issues regarding Jones, though last I heard was a diagnosis that his yardage totals were actually limited by his efforts to improve this problem and by holding onto the ball with two hands whenever he was in danger he had made himself into an average yardage gainer.

 

However, the bottomline for us is not to get fooled into comparing whatever alternatives against some perfection standard, but this deal if true is something we can easily work with and on the face of it bodes far less risk of injuries than Brown and far more production than Brown as well.

 

The world of differnce is that Chris Brown would not cost us an arn and leg ( the loss of use of the 12th pick).

 

I would take the chance on Chris Brown - who is very effective both running and receiving when healthy. HIs upside is much higher than Jones.

 

Jones is soft.

 

The Bill shoud learn that when good coaches like Parcells and Belichek cut loose players there is probably a real good reason why.

 

The risk of injury with Brown is mitigated by drafting a RB in the 3rd round and using Atrain.

[Pyrite Gal]

The world of differnce is that Chris Brown would not cost us an arn and leg ( the loss of use of the 12th pick).

 

I would take the chance on Chris Brown - who is very effective both running and receiving when healthy. HIs upside is much higher than Jones.

 

Jones is soft.

 

The Bill shoud learn that when good coaches like Parcells and Belichek cut loose players there is probably a real good reason why.

 

The risk of injury with Brown is mitigated by drafting a RB in the 3rd round and using Atrain.

 

In this case though there was no action to cut Jones lose by Parcells. The simple fact is that Jones is still a Cowboy and Parcells is not. Perhaps what you want to say to make your description fit the reality of the situation is that

 

"The Bill shoud learn that when good coaches like WADE PHILLIPS and Belichek cut loose players there is probably a real good reason why."

 

if you are going to make that case.

 

The last thing we know about what Parcells did with Jones was he started him at RB 16 straight games even though he had a credible alternative in Marion Barber available.

 

I am not sure at all what your argument is here because the facts are otherwise.

 

I think the "world of difference" that you seem to diminish here is that the Bills would not necessarily be taking an arm and a leg chance in acquiring either Jones or Brown since really all they would be giving up here is a draft choice.

 

I think fans simply generally give too much importance to the draft as ESPN has marketed it extremely well and the interest in fantasy football has put interest into overdrive. The draft is a crapshoot with TD's estimate that 50% of 1st round choices being busts standing statistically uncontroverted by anything I have seen.

 

I think TD does exaggerate here a bit though because I think that many 1st rounders were disappointing yes, but not busts. However, the greater exaggeration is from those who have made the conventional wisdom be that a 1st rounder should be a first year or even immediate starter.

 

Looking at what really happened with last years draft, I did take the time to look at depth charts a couple of weeks ago (its fun taking time away from saving the world to do this stuff) and of the 32 picks a bit over 50%- 18 of them- were first on the depth chart at their position a full season after they were picked.

 

While one should not throw draft picks around as though one were Mike Ditka, a team is taking actually the remote chance that you are giving up Peyton Manning in exchange for the vet you are picking up but the reality is that you also may be giving up Ryan Leaf. Since the success of drafted players is heavily weighted toward the top 10 picks, the fact that the Bills are giving up a mere 12th for a vet whom they know what they can do is not an arm and a leg at all.

 

The more compelling argument you make is the one that the vet is"soft" or has some other problem. However, in this case, the "soft" assessment is simply a matter of opinion which not having seen Jones I really cannot make with any legitimacy (not that this a requirement of any of TSW posters). I have seen Brown and his seemingly unrelenting injury problems to me make it more likely he will miss a bunch of games than not. He does hsve his moments, but unless a team is committing to RBBC I do not think he is a good choice.

 

All I can see from the stats which is the best indicator I have in the absence of seeing a player, the simple fact is that while he has suffered injury issues his first two years, the fact he started all 16 last year and did so for Parcells who clearly will do what is necessary to win to me speaks this initial injury issue have relented for at least one season.

 

The trade as proposed is interesting to me because while the draft picks should not be thrown around (good players have to come from somewhere and good players tend to get drafted) the proposal is to trade a future pick which for my admitted bias the future being now this interests me.

 

In part because our two primary needs are RB and LB and because this years LB class is generally regarded as a weaker one with no AJ Hawk or definite top 10 choices, I get very interested in proposals to try to meet these needs through trades.

[1billsfan]

There has been talk CB Anthony Henry is losing a step and that the Cowboys are considering moving him to FS. I could see Dallas being interested in CB Leon Hall for his replacement if they did make this move. The Cowboys pick at #22 and that should be far back enough to just miss out on Hall and Darrelle Revis. Swapping 1st rd picks with them could net us Jones and possibly their 4th rd pick (#105). I'd much rather have Julius Jones vs Chris Brown at this point and his contract should be alot friendlier than Michael Turner's. I see Tatum Bell being suggested in other posts but that guy is a fumbler, that's why Shanahan traded him.

 

If we were to make this trade we would be picking up another draft pick and selecting at the #22 slot instead at #12 which would be a big difference in contract money. If LB Posluszny isn't available then Jon Beason would be. That would be two areas of need addressed and still leaves us in a great position to take a quality CB in the 2nd rd. The question that you would have to consider is if Willis would be the guy that we have to have. If so, then we can't do nothing and just better take him with our original 1st rd pick at #12.

 

How would having two NFL starting runningback failures be considered having a "great RB tandem"?

 

No offense to A-Train but he never lived up to becoming a good starting NFL runningback. That doesn't mean he's a bad person. In fact he seems like a good person and I'm kind of glad he's our backup runningback.

 

As for Julius Jones, I don't get the fascination. The guy had never lived up to being able to carry the load in Dallas. 16 TDs in 35 starts tells me all I need to know as to why Dallas wants to trade him to another team. Plus he has 0 touchdowns receiving which is pathetic for a RB with that many starts.

 

Sorry, but I would have to consider that tandem to be a very bad one.