flomoe Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I don't know if this point has been made recently concerning the movement of Spikes, Fletcher, McGahee and Clements along with last years departure of Milloy, Vincent and Moulds. I think it's pretty obvious that Marv and Dick are assembling a locker room that will be lead by the young leaders of tomorrow. J.P., Lee Evans, Jason Peters, Donte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Keith Ellison, Chris Kelsay and Aaron Schoebel, along with a few slightly older veterans such as Melvin Fowler, Derrick Dockery, Larry Tripplett and Kiwaukee Thomas. For the most part though, if you look at the current roster, this team is now JP Losman's team. The same thing happened back in the late 80's when Jim Kelly, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas, Kent Hull, Bruce Smith and Darryl Talley joined the Bills. There were a lot of veterans that were jetisoned to make room for the new core of players. Players such as Jerry Butler, Greg Bell, Carlton Bailey, Jestin Cross, Ken Jones, Tim Vogler and Charlie Romes were all shown the door in that late 80's era. The point is, change happens, sometimes good veteran players get let go or get traded to make room for a New Attitude in the locker room. Every player that the Bills have lost over the last two years has been part of a losing team which isn't their faults individually but collectively, they were part of a losing atmosphere at One Bills Drive and something needs to change. This team is JP's team now, like it or lump it, just as back in '88 and '89 when several players were shuffled out to make room for new ones to build around. Marv and Dick have a plan and they are basically weeding out the older players who ran the locker room to make room for the young guys such as Losman, Evans and Schoebel to become the new leaders of the Bills of the future and the futre is now with these guys. So, instead of harping on the negatives with the loss of a few older guys, look at the positives and similarities that the future of this team holds with a new core of leaders with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Chief Navy Pride Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I don't know if this point has been made recently concerning the movement of Spikes, Fletcher, McGahee and Clements along with last years departure of Milloy, Vincent and Moulds. I think it's pretty obvious that Marv and Dick are assembling a locker room that will be lead by the young leaders of tomorrow. J.P., Lee Evans, Jason Peters, Donte Whitner, Ko Simpson, Keith Ellison, Chris Kelsay and Aaron Schoebel, along with a few slightly older veterans such as Melvin Fowler, Derrick Dockery, Larry Tripplett and Kiwaukee Thomas. For the most part though, if you look at the current roster, this team is now JP Losman's team.The same thing happened back in the late 80's when Jim Kelly, Andre Reed, Thurman Thomas, Kent Hull, Bruce Smith and Darryl Talley joined the Bills. There were a lot of veterans that were jetisoned to make room for the new core of players. Players such as Jerry Butler, Greg Bell, Carlton Bailey, Jestin Cross, Ken Jones, Tim Vogler and Charlie Romes were all shown the door in that late 80's era. The point is, change happens, sometimes good veteran players get let go or get traded to make room for a New Attitude in the locker room. Every player that the Bills have lost over the last two years has been part of a losing team which isn't their faults individually but collectively, they were part of a losing atmosphere at One Bills Drive and something needs to change. This team is JP's team now, like it or lump it, just as back in '88 and '89 when several players were shuffled out to make room for new ones to build around. Marv and Dick have a plan and they are basically weeding out the older players who ran the locker room to make room for the young guys such as Losman, Evans and Schoebel to become the new leaders of the Bills of the future and the futre is now with these guys. So, instead of harping on the negatives with the loss of a few older guys, look at the positives and similarities that the future of this team holds with a new core of leaders with this team. This has got to be the best post I have read in recent memory!!! I agree 1000%. Great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I think it is more accurate to say that this COULD be JP's team but that it is not yet as though he clearly has shown a lot of potential, he defines the definition of potential simply meaning you have not done anything yet. There are a variety of models for success in the NFL and sports which range from teams like the Pats which even with Tom Brady clearly leading the charge on the field (with Belicheck leading the charge among non-players I that the seeming cause and definite effect of their success has been their ability to be a TEAM. On the other end of the team-building spectrum is the 49ers who though their clearly were a lot of the best players ever (like Jerry Rice) Joe Montana achieved so much, showed such leadership, and did this while not raising expectations as a player that it really shows the ability of an individual to be identified as embodying a team effort. However, what the teams on this spectrum share in common is that they clearly achieved something and the Bills with (and significantly prior to) JP have not even made the playoffs yet. It clearly can MAYBE be his team, but he has such a long way to go he is no where close that point yet. One could attempt to claim that this is purely a question of whether one views the same glass as being half empty or half full. However, the simple lack of even the most basic achievements of being a good team in the NFL in making the playoffs renders this more accurately being a difference in perspective between those who view the glass as 90% empty and those who view it as 10% full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bflojohn Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 No Pyrite Gal, it is his team!! I wholeheartedly agree with the premise that J.P. Losman has CLEARLY been handed the reigns and you may be the greatest fence sitter of all time! Oh, wait I can't decide!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beausox Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Omigod. A handful of positive posts in a row. Surely one of the Board Weaels will destroy this interesting thread soon. Congrats to posters to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 No Pyrite Gal, it is his team!! I wholeheartedly agree with the premise that J.P. Losman has CLEARLY been handed the reigns and you may be the greatest fence sitter of all time! Oh, wait I can't decide!!! I totally agree. Jump on one side of the fence or the other Pyrite Gal. & spare us your 25 paragraph posts that basically does not tell us a dam thing. There is no doubt they are giving JP the keys to the car. Make no mistake about it. This is his team now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flomoe Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 I just want to add that I am not comparing JP to JK in any way here or the team that was built in the late 80's to the current team but that the moves being made are similar in some ways and that there is obviously a plan in place to build this team around a certain core of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinandjokin Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I just want to add that I am not comparing JP to JK in any way here or the team that was built in the late 80's to the current team but that the moves being made are similar in some ways and that there is obviously a plan in place to build this team around a certain core of players. I understand the general theme of your post, but comparing the construction of a Super Bowl-caliber team now and in the mid-80's is not really valid. You had the ability in those days to retain all of your 1st round picks and build around them for as long as you wanted to pay them. Now, with free agency and the cap, teams have to try to bottle their success for a 2-3 year period and hope everything clicks at the right time. You do not have 5 or 6 years to continue adding skilled, character guys to complete your perfect roster. It is the nature of the league right now that you will have some pieces on your roster that you would prefer to replace, but cannot afford to do so. Like I said, I appreciate the gist of your post, as far as building the team. I do see some similarities, and it's obvious the types of players Marv likes has remained the same over the past 20 years. However, it should be noted that the window of opportunity is much smaller now than it was then, and I hope Marv realizes that. If you feel like your team is on the cusp, you have to jump at the opportunity. If the window is missed, it will be more cap-saving cuts and several years of 6-10 records and rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Dude... Carlton Bailey wasn't brought in until 89 or 90 and was on at least two SB teams before departing via FW. He scored the lone TD in the Bills 10-7 win over Denver in their 2nd AFC championship to avance to SB 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsjunkie Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 For anyone who wants to question whether this is JPs team or not......go watch his interviews on BB.com The kid just beams leadership and just the way he presents himself shows me that this is his team. This is not the same JP going into last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 One could attempt to claim that this is purely a question of whether one views the same glass as being half empty or half full. However, the simple lack of even the most basic achievements of being a good team in the NFL in making the playoffs renders this more accurately being a difference in perspective between those who view the glass as 90% empty and those who view it as 10% full. Indeed, one COULD claim that. Did one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketch Soland Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I think it is more accurate to say that this COULD be JP's team but that it is not yet as though he clearly has shown a lot of potential, he defines the definition of potential simply meaning you have not done anything yet. There are a variety of models for success in the NFL and sports which range from teams like the Pats which even with Tom Brady clearly leading the charge on the field (with Belicheck leading the charge among non-players I that the seeming cause and definite effect of their success has been their ability to be a TEAM. On the other end of the team-building spectrum is the 49ers who though their clearly were a lot of the best players ever (like Jerry Rice) Joe Montana achieved so much, showed such leadership, and did this while not raising expectations as a player that it really shows the ability of an individual to be identified as embodying a team effort. However, what the teams on this spectrum share in common is that they clearly achieved something and the Bills with (and significantly prior to) JP have not even made the playoffs yet. It clearly can MAYBE be his team, but he has such a long way to go he is no where close that point yet. One could attempt to claim that this is purely a question of whether one views the same glass as being half empty or half full. However, the simple lack of even the most basic achievements of being a good team in the NFL in making the playoffs renders this more accurately being a difference in perspective between those who view the glass as 90% empty and those who view it as 10% full. Your point is well made; I think a better way to put it is Marv and Co. are removing all potential obstacles out of JP's way so that he can most clearly and directly make his move on the throne of the Bills being his team. I sense that they have a great optimism about the continued expansion of JP as a QB and Leader, and they view this process as more of a rearranging of the pieces around him to help him more than hoping that he actually comes through. I think last year did a lot to show them that they don't have to worry so much about JP and worry more about the pieces assembled around him. If you look at the JP now as opposed to the JP last offseason, the difference is monumental and I think the reciprocal confidence flowing between coaching/management staff and JP is really electric with potential and promise. Certainly we are still dealing with potential in JP, but there is a difference between electrically confident potential and crossing your fingers potential. JP has made the jump from the latter to former in the course of one season, imo, and the plan continuing to be implemented by Marv and Co. is a direct reflection of this rapid growth and, especially, maturity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 good post and i love the new attitude "core players".go bills in"07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Here is a similar thought I wrote up in the other thread. Vincent, Milloy, TKO Fletcher departure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary owen Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Indeed, one COULD claim that. Did one? oh my god. I usually just skip past PG's appearances in a thread. I was doing just that, then you quoted a piece and bolded it. I was sucked right in. Man am I sorry I did. That sh*t from "One could" to "10% full" made my damn head hurt. Thanks Dean BTW, Flomoe, excellent post. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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