Billsguy Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I don't know if anybody has mentioned this already amidst the euphoria, but Langston Walker, our new answer at RT was on an offensive line that was 29th in the league in rushing offense and their offensive line gave up 72 sacks! The worst offensive line in recent NFL history. I watched every Raiders game last year. It was UGLY, especially the offense. The latest savior, Darwin Walker, was expendable in Philly principally because they couldn't stop the run. The Philly defense was 26th in the league in rushing defense. The cover 2 defense couldn't stop the run last year and it likely won't this year. The best rushing defenses around the league have guys up the middle in the 325lb. range. This is not just a coincidence. The Bills D-line will get steamrolled again next year. Speed can be overpowered. Look at he tapes from last year and you will see London Fletcher getting pushed 8-10 yds back or knocked down after the DT's were handled with relative ease. A rotation system at DT can be an excuse for not having anybody good enough to handle the position(s) by himself. A defensive scheme (i.e.cover 2) cannot disguise a lack of talent. The Bills have a couple new faces which gets everybody excited, but IMO they haven't improved.
crazyDingo Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 You forgot one Walker... Me. Texas Ranger. They're putting me on the defensive line next year and I will sack QB's by staring at them. --Chuck Norris
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Running off right tackle the raiders actualy ranked 9th in the league at 4.39 yards a clip which is much better then what the bills did ranking 27th in the league in runs off right tackle at 3.92 yards a clip. Now Langston Walker might not be the answer at rt. Looking at these stats though and I'll assume he played rt last year for the raiders. Seems to me that's a pretty good rushing average. If it's true it'll balance the left side of the line well. I hate to bet against a guy as massive as Langston Walker so I'll continue on with cautious optimism. http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php As Far as Darwin Walker goes. The job of the cover 2 is not to stop the run it's to create pressure that leads to turnovers with minimal to no blitzing. Yeah smaller guys can be overpowered, but again the job is to not hold gaps. It's a system based on creating interior pressured designed to string running plays wide, or hurry throws leading to turnovers. It's a speed oriented defense that with the right personell is extremely effective. Darwin Walker is a very good interior rusher which is what fits the defense, and will fit well into the rotation. The reason for quicker linemen as opposed to fat boys is to create pressure strictly from your defensive line, in order to keep lb's and db's in coverage and not blitzing. Like any scheme it works if you have the players that fit.
ROCCEO Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Its not impossible to stop the run with the cover two, look at the bears last year. For the most part their DTs are under 300 lbs. Tommie Harris goes about 280 and hes one of the best in the league. Tampa has been notoriously hard to run on for years. They also have done it with a smaller d-line.
Dr. Trooth Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 The Bills have a couple new faces which gets everybody excited, but IMO they haven't improved. Certainly they've improved. If you look exclusively at the signing of "Langston" and "Darwin", it's difficult to see how the Bills have improved. However, if you look at these moves in concert with everything else, the picture is more clear... and that picture will become more clear after the draft. The aquistion of Langston without brining in Dockery to solidify the left said meant little. However, if Pennington continues his rapid ascent and Preston continues to unimpress, Langston could easily step in at RG because he's played the position before. And, the result could mean a formidable offensive line. Darwin's aquisition adds another experienced DT that will rotate. Istead of 50 snaps a game, Walker's going to get 25 -35 snaps... that will increase his effectiveness. Also, even though the Bills re-signed Anderson, it was only cheap insurance if they don't get the DT they want in the draft. I'm pretty sure the Bills don't see Anderson, even as a short term answer... and they will enhance the DT and perhaps DE too in the draft. Lastly... You can sya the same thing you said in the top of you message about the Free Agents or trades the Bills made. Spikes, Clements, Fletcher played on a piss poor Bills defense. By your logic... any team that acquired those players got crap. And, the same goes for McGahee... he played on a bottom five offense, therefore he stinks (which may be true), but he may be utilized in an offense that is more suitable to his one dimensional skill. I have a hard time believeing that an offensive line that consisted of Langston Walker, Jake Grove, Bob Gallery, and Barry Sims stunk. The offensive woes of the Raiders couldn't possibly be because of Art shell, who hired an offensive coordinator that hadn't been involved in football for several years...and stunk to begin with. It couldn't possibly be because of having Andrew Walter (yeah, who?) at QB.... or 3 of the most selfish players the NFL has to offer in Randy Moss, Jerry Porter, and Aaron Brooks, could it? The Bills did their homework on these guys... and Jauron said Langston graded out very well according to how he measures performance. Jauron's the guy that has to make it work... not you.
Ray Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I could see the right side of the line with Walker at RG and Pennington at RT if reports are true that Pennington really worked/is working hard this offseason.
Bill from NYC Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Certainly they've improved. If you look exclusively at the signing of "Langston" and "Darwin", it's difficult to see how the Bills have improved. However, if you look at these moves in concert with everything else, the picture is more clear... and that picture will become more clear after the draft. The aquistion of Langston without brining in Dockery to solidify the left said meant little. However, if Pennington continues his rapid ascent and Preston continues to unimpress, Langston could easily step in at RG because he's played the position before. And, the result could mean a formidable offensive line. Darwin's aquisition adds another experienced DT that will rotate. Istead of 50 snaps a game, Walker's going to get 25 -35 snaps... that will increase his effectiveness. Also, even though the Bills re-signed Anderson, it was only cheap insurance if they don't get the DT they want in the draft. I'm pretty sure the Bills don't see Anderson, even as a short term answer... and they will enhance the DT and perhaps DE too in the draft. Lastly... You can sya the same thing you said in the top of you message about the Free Agents or trades the Bills made. Spikes, Clements, Fletcher played on a piss poor Bills defense. By your logic... any team that acquired those players got crap. And, the same goes for McGahee... he played on a bottom five offense, therefore he stinks (which may be true), but he may be utilized in an offense that is more suitable to his one dimensional skill. I have a hard time believeing that an offensive line that consisted of Langston Walker, Jake Grove, Bob Gallery, and Barry Sims stunk. The offensive woes of the Raiders couldn't possibly be because of Art shell, who hired an offensive coordinator that hadn't been involved in football for several years...and stunk to begin with. It couldn't possibly be because of having Andrew Walter (yeah, who?) at QB.... or 3 of the most selfish players the NFL has to offer in Randy Moss, Jerry Porter, and Aaron Brooks, could it? The Bills did their homework on these guys... and Jauron said Langston graded out very well according to how he measures performance. Jauron's the guy that has to make it work... not you. You see Doc, I am really hoping you are correct about the right side. I paid attention to it as much as one possibly could last season and came away not knowing at all what to think of Pennington. Apparently, Marv wasn't satisfied because he needed a ton of help from RBs and TEs. If Walker can simply hold his own, he will be an upgrade. The Bills were barely able to run to the right side in 06. I find it almost impossible to believe that the coaches are impressed with Preston (I know that I wasn't) which might indicate a different RG. As a bigger, and more experienced player, it seems very likely that Walker will be able to offer more help to the RG than did Pennington, who was the receiptient of a ton of help himself. The above is why I am hoping for a first day OG. Even if he doesn't start right away, we still need an infusion of talent up front. Peters didn't start right away, and he has a chance to be great imo. Youboty didn't play much either, yet there are few complaints. As soon as the Bills get stronger and better on both lines, they will be a playoff team imo. With the new guys, some tough rookies, and the improvement I expect from Peters, this could be the year,and I just don't care what Jaworski, or the rest of the media thinks. I pay a lot more attention to the thoughts of certain posters on this board.
marauderswr80 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I don't know if anybody has mentioned this already amidst the euphoria, but Langston Walker, our new answer at RT was on an offensive line that was 29th in the league in rushing offense and their offensive line gave up 72 sacks! The worst offensive line in recent NFL history. I watched every Raiders game last year. It was UGLY, especially the offense. The latest savior, Darwin Walker, was expendable in Philly principally because they couldn't stop the run. The Philly defense was 26th in the league in rushing defense. The cover 2 defense couldn't stop the run last year and it likely won't this year. The best rushing defenses around the league have guys up the middle in the 325lb. range. This is not just a coincidence. The Bills D-line will get steamrolled again next year. Speed can be overpowered. Look at he tapes from last year and you will see London Fletcher getting pushed 8-10 yds back or knocked down after the DT's were handled with relative ease. A rotation system at DT can be an excuse for not having anybody good enough to handle the position(s) by himself. A defensive scheme (i.e.cover 2) cannot disguise a lack of talent. The Bills have a couple new faces which gets everybody excited, but IMO they haven't improved. I have to disagree. I think Walker was a good OL on a bad team. Its the same situation with Jason Peters, hes a great OL that was on a bad team and was well overlooked by many people. But.........way to be positive i like it! Atleast wait until you see them on the field.
Lurker Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Running off right tackle the raiders actualy ranked 9th in the league at 4.39 yards a clip which is much better then what the bills did ranking 27th in the league in runs off right tackle at 3.92 yards a clip. Ther you go spouting facts again...
34-78-83 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Running off right tackle the raiders actualy ranked 9th in the league at 4.39 yards a clip which is much better then what the bills did ranking 27th in the league in runs off right tackle at 3.92 yards a clip. Now Langston Walker might not be the answer at rt. Looking at these stats though and I'll assume he played rt last year for the raiders. Seems to me that's a pretty good rushing average. If it's true it'll balance the left side of the line well. I hate to bet against a guy as massive as Langston Walker so I'll continue on with cautious optimism. http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php As Far as Darwin Walker goes. The job of the cover 2 is not to stop the run it's to create pressure that leads to turnovers with minimal to no blitzing. Yeah smaller guys can be overpowered, but again the job is to not hold gaps. It's a system based on creating interior pressured designed to string running plays wide, or hurry throws leading to turnovers. It's a speed oriented defense that with the right personell is extremely effective. Darwin Walker is a very good interior rusher which is what fits the defense, and will fit well into the rotation. The reason for quicker linemen as opposed to fat boys is to create pressure strictly from your defensive line, in order to keep lb's and db's in coverage and not blitzing. Like any scheme it works if you have the players that fit. Excellent Post. I think they're going to be willing to Sacrifice some yards in order to maintain pressure in the backfield on both passing and running plays. I think they feel that today's game on defense is more about stopping the pass and "containing" the run. We've seen this work for a few teams recently.
obie_wan Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I don't know if anybody has mentioned this already amidst the euphoria, but Langston Walker, our new answer at RT was on an offensive line that was 29th in the league in rushing offense and their offensive line gave up 72 sacks! The worst offensive line in recent NFL history. I watched every Raiders game last year. It was UGLY, especially the offense. The latest savior, Darwin Walker, was expendable in Philly principally because they couldn't stop the run. The Philly defense was 26th in the league in rushing defense. The cover 2 defense couldn't stop the run last year and it likely won't this year. The best rushing defenses around the league have guys up the middle in the 325lb. range. This is not just a coincidence. The Bills D-line will get steamrolled again next year. Speed can be overpowered. Look at he tapes from last year and you will see London Fletcher getting pushed 8-10 yds back or knocked down after the DT's were handled with relative ease. A rotation system at DT can be an excuse for not having anybody good enough to handle the position(s) by himself. A defensive scheme (i.e.cover 2) cannot disguise a lack of talent. The Bills have a couple new faces which gets everybody excited, but IMO they haven't improved. which is why Fletcher is no longer a Bill. A team which bases its defense on speed also has to have all the parts working together. As the DL pushes upfield to disrupt plays in the backfield, the LBs and DBs need to be properly positioned to make the tackles. The LBs need to aggressively attack the cutback lanes. They will draft LBs that fit this profile. What they lose in experience, they will make up for in speed, tackling and aggressiveness. With a full year and another off-season, the entire defense will function much better as a unit- even though they are missing some big names.
billybob Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 The cover 2 can work but you need really quick DTs - Warren Sapp, Tommy Harris - small guys who are kind of quick just don,t cut it and will get caught and pushed out-really you might be better off putting extremely quick 250lbs in at tackle cause the idea is to explode into the gap virtually untouched.
kenny3000 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 You forgot one Walker... Me. Texas Ranger. They're putting me on the defensive line next year and I will sack QB's by staring at them. --Chuck Norris Holy crap, you just made me spit out my cheerios. well done
Lofton80 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I believe the final straw for Fletcher and Spikes was the Tenn game. Vince Young and Travis Henry ran over and by both of them in the fourth quarter with little resistance. Adding Darwin Walker and assuming increased production from a healthy John McCargo, one would hope for an improvement upfront in the second year of Fewell's scheme. As for Langston Walker, earlier someone posted a youtube clip from his Oakland days and he was not terrible at all. The Oakland QB takes deep drops which certainly doesn't help. He has good footwork and is huge. I imagine a lot of film was studied before they signed him. If the left side is dominant with Dockery and Peters, it will help the whole line. I am more concerned about Fowler than Walker to be honest.
obie_wan Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 . . A rotation system at DT can be an excuse for not having anybody good enough to handle the position(s) by himself. A defensive scheme (i.e.cover 2) cannot disguise a lack of talent. Or s rotation can be a way to get elite level production from the unit when none of the individual parts are superstar caliber. When the front 7 operates as a team and gang tackles in mass, you can cover up some lack of talent by scheme and energy. Reality is that you can't have elite players at all positions. Since the path to the playoffs goes thru NE and NYJ, 2 teams with quick timing passing attacks, it makes the most sense to use a defense that will attack the pocket and disrupt the timing of the offense. Bills will be fine
nodnarb Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 This has been covered and covered ad nauseum. The Bills addressed this specifically. Everyone around the league knows that the Oakland *coaching staff* was the overmatched group on that squad. You can't succeed with an OC that has been out of the game for 10 years attending a bed and breakfast, and you can't succeed with an OLine coach who hasn't adjusted his schemes since the early 90s. Nobody around the league considered the Oakland linemen to be the cause, either individually or as a group. And when the Bills scouted Walker, their EXPERIENCED, TRAINED EYES told them that Walker was the highlight of the bunch, he always did his job, knew his assignment, and looked about as good as a player could be in that quasi-system.
Chicken Little Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 THE SKY IS FALLLLING Hey, quit cutting in on my action. I can handle this myself.
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Both Walkers will be starters and I see them playing very well this year.
billybob Posted March 31, 2007 Posted March 31, 2007 Langston Walker at 366lbs will not be starting at right tackle or right guard- Ill bet some combination of Pennington, Butler, Preston will fill those two positions.
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