Ray Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Remember when it seemed the secondary would faulter because we lost our two starting safeties? Well, the same thing is happening with the LB core. Maybe we are just used to these guys being there. I would have loved Spikes to stay, but it seems he did not want to be here. I loved Milloy and Fletcher as well, but with their big names we never even went to the playoffs. Crowell was our best LB last year and Ellison played better than TKO. Point being, if you watched the Bills closely last year and the year before you have to realize they were due for an overhaul. We saw it in the safeties and now we're seeing it in the LBs.
beerme1 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 We missed Vincent? Spikes was not missed because he missed so much time and when he returned was not the same guy. Fletcher will not be missed. Guys will get tackled closer to the line of scrimmage this year. Milloy, yes I believe we missed him. Tough son of a bi tch but at this point we have moved on. So no none of those guys are missed.
bflobarry Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I agree Ray. Crowell and Ellison are solid (imho), and round one will bring the 3'rd member of the troika, either Willis or Poz. I think LB is OK, barring injury. RB is the other main concern, and I still believe we will get a good one in RD 2, unless we get our guy in RD #1, and then the LB in rd#2.
Kuile Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 We won't miss them. Esp. when we have money to spend in the next few years without all those aging players.
jarthur31 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Remember when it seemed the secondary would faulter because we lost our two starting safeties? Well, the same thing is happening with the LB core. Maybe we are just used to these guys being there. I would have loved Spikes to stay, but it seems he did not want to be here. I loved Milloy and Fletcher as well, but with their big names we never even went to the playoffs. Crowell was our best LB last year and Ellison played better than TKO. Point being, if you watched the Bills closely last year and the year before you have to realize they were due for an overhaul. We saw it in the safeties and now we're seeing it in the LBs. We only missed TV because he was truly a teacher/mentor to Lee. The new safeties were upgrades and we pretty much all knew that. We won't miss the LB"s that much because neither was producing like they once did. We will, however, miss Nate most of all this year. I don't see McGee nor Youboty as being upgrades here.
clownments22 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I wish I could agree with you guys. The only reason you can say you won't miss Takeo is because you won't miss the way he played in 06. If you had written "we won't miss fletcher and spikes's play of last year" i would agree, but i think he's gonna be back really strong this year and the eagles are going to cash in on his production big time. The only way that I can look at this as a positive is to consider that Takeo wasn't as effective in our new defensive scheme. I think he's gonna put up monster sack numbers with Philadelphia this year with the way they blitz.
stinky finger Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I wish I could agree with you guys. The only reason you can say you won't miss Takeo is because you won't miss the way he played in 06. If you had written "we won't miss fletcher and spikes's play of last year" i would agree, but i think he's gonna be back really strong this year and the eagles are going to cash in on his production big time. The only way that I can look at this as a positive is to consider that Takeo wasn't as effective in our new defensive scheme. I think he's gonna put up monster sack numbers with Philadelphia this year with the way they blitz. Spikes = Kearse
Billsjunkie Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Spikes may have a great year though. Who knows. He is going to a scheme where he was a pro-bowler in Buffalo. The Bills just are not a blitzing team anymore and thats what Spikes was good at. So even if Spikes has a pro-bowl year coming off that injury it doesn't mean that he would do the same here. Cover 2 demands discipline and adhering to your assignments. The zone blitzing scheme is more of a balls out type of defense where the LBers attack the line of scrimmage. Thats why I think Ellison could have a monster year. He is perfect for what we want our Backers to do. To answer the posters question, will we miss Spikes and Fletcher? Well this is a two way answer. Leadership on the field and locker room.....yes. On the field play.....no. Double edge sword I guess. But new leaders will arise this year, its just a matter of time. Personally I think Crowell is ready to take the bull by the horns. I love his energy.
Ray Posted March 30, 2007 Author Posted March 30, 2007 My point being---you lose some big name guys and the national media knows them well and knows what they've done in the past. Spikes and Fletcher are on the wrong side of 30. They had some great games for the Bills, but at this time I think the Bills are better off with another LB crew. I think the Bills would have kept Spkies had he not wanted to be traded. They have the room and they will pay his replacement at least 1M a year probably more. I really don't think his very manageable 4.6M salary had much to do with it. I think the fact he did NOT want to be here, was critical of all the moves (remember the criticism he had getting rid of Vincent and Milloy). We missed Vincent? Exactly! We didn't!!!
Billsjunkie Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I'm just thankful that we have Ko Simpson instead of Vincent. Troys tackling was horrid. It was almost like he didn't want to tackle them. Ko on the other hand was laying the wood. Ko was really hitting people last year. Plus he covers a huge amount of area because of his long legs and big stride. Its going to be exciting to watch these young players grow.
marauderswr80 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Who missed Vincent and Milloy? I sure didnt........... I will miss Spikes and Fletcher and Clements for sure........ But who in their right minds misses Vincent & Milloy?
ganesh Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Last year we could not stop teams from running time of the clock in the 4th qtr and keeping our offense off the field. The patriots controlled the 4th qtr in game 1, the Colts never gave the ball back to us in the last 7 minutes, the Titans ran roughshod over the dense for 8 minute drive in the 4th qtr, the chargers got their safety TD pass in the 4th qtr and so on....Clements, Fletcher and Spikes were part of that defense that could not stop anything moving in the 4th qtr.... Football is a team game. These guys could not gel with the rest of the team. I am not faulting them individually, but collectively they were not able to get the job done. Considering the risk factor in re-signing to big extensions, the team had to look in a new direction... Good luck to those guys, but I think in the long term, this team might be better off without them.
Gordio Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 We missed Vincent?Spikes was not missed because he missed so much time and when he returned was not the same guy. Fletcher will not be missed. Guys will get tackled closer to the line of scrimmage this year. Milloy, yes I believe we missed him. Tough son of a bi tch but at this point we have moved on. So no none of those guys are missed. I thought Milloy was horrible the last year he played with the bills.
Gordio Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I wish I could agree with you guys. The only reason you can say you won't miss Takeo is because you won't miss the way he played in 06. If you had written "we won't miss fletcher and spikes's play of last year" i would agree, but i think he's gonna be back really strong this year and the eagles are going to cash in on his production big time. The only way that I can look at this as a positive is to consider that Takeo wasn't as effective in our new defensive scheme. I think he's gonna put up monster sack numbers with Philadelphia this year with the way they blitz. There is noway Takeo comes back to play like he did pre injury. The guy is 30 yrs old, has taken a pounding in the league for 9yrs. I think your going to see in the fall, Spikes is going to have these little nagging injuries that are really going to prevent him from being effected. In one of the articles in the Philly paper, a writer made a very interesting observation. It was tough to find, because all the articles in the Philly paper were prety much a love fest with Spikes. But there was one blurb that said, that said "Spikes claims he is 100%, but if you looked carefully you could tell when he went to the podium he had slight limp" Writer didnt make a big deal about it nor should he at this point just stated it. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
ganesh Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 The only way that I can look at this as a positive is to consider that Takeo wasn't as effective in our new defensive scheme. I think he's gonna put up monster sack numbers with Philadelphia this year with the way they blitz. TKO himself mentioned that in his press conference. He said he was a misfit for the cover 2 scheme and he was excited that the Eagles played the same scheme that he was under Jerry Gray here with Williams and Mularkey. I think he really will excel in the Jimmy Johnsons Blitzing scheme which I think is similar to what was run by Gray.
Gordio Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Spikes may have a great year though. Who knows. He is going to a scheme where he was a pro-bowler in Buffalo. The Bills just are not a blitzing team anymore and thats what Spikes was good at. So even if Spikes has a pro-bowl year coming off that injury it doesn't mean that he would do the same here. Cover 2 demands discipline and adhering to your assignments. The zone blitzing scheme is more of a balls out type of defense where the LBers attack the line of scrimmage. Thats why I think Ellison could have a monster year. He is perfect for what we want our Backers to do. To answer the posters question, will we miss Spikes and Fletcher? Well this is a two way answer. Leadership on the field and locker room.....yes. On the field play.....no. Double edge sword I guess. But new leaders will arise this year, its just a matter of time. Personally I think Crowell is ready to take the bull by the horns. I love his energy. Spikes' game is not blitzing. In Buffalo, he certainly was not asked to blitz alot. Look at his sack totals throughout his career. He never had a high sack total. His game was always stopping the run on the weak side pursuit & dropping back into coverage. With this injury he no longer posses the speed in trying to stay with faster TEs & Rbs anymore. I suppose that is one of the main reasons the bills viewed him as dispensable.
ganesh Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 Spikes' game is not blitzing. In Buffalo, he certainly was not asked to blitz alot. Look at his sack totals throughout his career. He never had a high sack total. His game was always stopping the run on the weak side pursuit & dropping back into coverage. With this injury he no longer posses the speed in trying to stay with faster TEs & Rbs anymore. I suppose that is one of the main reasons the bills viewed him as dispensable. That is incorrect. In Jerry Grays 'I love to blitz on every play' defense (in which TKO played 3 of his 4 seasons for the bills) TKO was the guy who was asked to do everything playing the weak side.
Gordio Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 That is incorrect. In Jerry Grays 'I love to blitz on every play' defense (in which TKO played 3 of his 4 seasons for the bills) TKO was the guy who was asked to do everything playing the weak side. No he wasnt, watch the games. He dropped back in coverage more times then he blitzed. In 2003 & 2004 playing under Jerry Gray Blitz schem he had a grand total of 2 sacks & 3 sacks respectively. Someone as good as spikes that is blitzing that much would have more sacks then that.
beerme1 Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 I thought Milloy was horrible the last year he played with the bills. I wont say I disagree totally. But I specifically remember when he broke his arm and was out, our defense disappeared without him. I don't want to give the wrong impression in that I felt we were doomed without him.
Gordio Posted March 30, 2007 Posted March 30, 2007 That is incorrect. In Jerry Grays 'I love to blitz on every play' defense (in which TKO played 3 of his 4 seasons for the bills) TKO was the guy who was asked to do everything playing the weak side. & by the way, spikes highest sack total was 6 in his career & he has averaged over his career only 2.5 sacks per year. I took out his injury year of 05. His game has always been dropping back into coverage & pursuiting the run from the weka side. Not getting after the qb.
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