HeyNowBuffalo Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Pretty hard to argue that, over the last two years, Darwin Walker was the best player of the three in the Bills/Eagles trade... An oversimplification perhaps, particularly in light of Spikes' injuries and the ramifications of the salary cap in the NFL... But it's still true...
ROCCEO Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Pretty hard to argue that, over the last two years, Darwin Walker was the best player of the three in the Bills/Eagles trade... An oversimplification perhaps, particularly in light of Spikes' injuries and the ramifications of the salary cap in the NFL... But it's still true... I think you underrate Holcomb
HeHateMe78 Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 I think you underrate Holcomb [/quote Holcomb moved about the same pace as a special olympic hurdler , He is garbage!
Steve O Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Pretty hard to argue that, over the last two years, Darwin Walker was the best player of the three in the Bills/Eagles trade... An oversimplification perhaps, particularly in light of Spikes' injuries and the ramifications of the salary cap in the NFL... But it's still true... Based on the last 2 years you are correct, Walker is the better player. Based on the two years before that, Spikes is by far the better player. We will only knowwho got the better of this deal after the next two years. Bills certainly got more of a known commodity, Eagles certainly got more potential. Disregarding of course the draft pick.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Based on the last 2 years you are correct, Walker is the better player. Based on the two years before that, Spikes is by far the better player. We will only knowwho got the better of this deal after the next two years. Bills certainly got more of a known commodity, Eagles certainly got more potential. Disregarding of course the draft pick. I don't know if I'd say the Eagles got more potential. Even without suffering an almost invariably talent-robbing injury, Spikes is on the wrong side of 30 and would have been on the downside of his career. It will be almost impossible for him to regain his pre-2005 form.
Steve O Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 I don't know if I'd say the Eagles got more potential. Even without suffering an almost invariably talent-robbing injury, Spikes is on the wrong side of 30 and would have been on the downside of his career. It will be almost impossible for him to regain his pre-2005 form. The injury has of course cut short several careers. But Spikes is a monster, if he can recover from it Philly will get the better of the deal. Regarding the age, this is virtually irrelevant. Spikes is only 6 months older than Walker, who will be 30 before training camp. My only point is that we can't look at the past 2 years and say Walker will be the better player based on that. Hopefully both players will gel new environents, both seem like class guys
Rubes Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Look, what it really comes down to is this: fans find all the things wrong with the player who left, and play up the upside of the guy who just arrived. Philly fans are stoked at getting a LB of the caliber of Spikes. They see the upside if he returns to form. They play up the fact that he improved as the year went on. At worst, they see themselves getting a good LB who brings a lot of fire to the table. They also see themselves getting a solid backup QB. And all they gave up was an average DT and a worthless 7th round pick. On the flip side, we're stoked at getting a veteran DT who will fit our system perfectly, potentially fixing our defensive line problems and striking DT off the list of need positions in the draft. We love his sack stats and play up the positive reports we can find from people who have seen him play. We had to give up a great teammate but a guy who is really expensive and who has missed as much playing time as he's seen the last two years, appears to be a shell of his old self, and probably will never reach his old form. That and an expensive guy who will likely be their 3rd string QB -- big deal. Who won this deal? Who got robbed? Nobody did, certainly not yet. If Spikes returns to his Pro Bowl form, then the Eagles did well. If Walker solidifes our defensive line, then we did well. Holcomb is barely even part of the equation, to be honest. But certainly nobody could honestly proclaim, with a straight face, that either team made out better than the other at this point in time.
Booster4324 Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 The injury has of course cut short several careers. But Spikes is a monster, if he can recover from it Philly will get the better of the deal. Regarding the age, this is virtually irrelevant. Spikes is only 6 months older than Walker, who will be 30 before training camp. My only point is that we can't look at the past 2 years and say Walker will be the better player based on that. Hopefully both players will gel new environents, both seem like class guys Honestly, I wish the best to both of them. I am picturing the Bills in 2008-2009. Spikes wouldn't be part of the equation by then. Walker might, but I see him as just a guy to fill the rotation for this year.
Rico Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Honestly, I wish the best to both of them. I am picturing the Bills in 2008-2009. Spikes wouldn't be part of the equation by then. Walker might, but I see him as just a guy to fill the rotation for this year.Yeah, I see this trade as a whole lotta noise over nothing. TKO and Holcomb wouldn't have and shouldn't have been on the Bills 2007 Week 1 roster... even if Walker doesn't make the team, the Bills still come out ahead with the $$$ savings and the draft pick.
Paup 1995MVP Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Yeah, I see this trade as a whole lotta noise over nothing. TKO and Holcomb wouldn't have and shouldn't have been on the Bills 2007 Week 1 roster... even if Walker doesn't make the team, the Bills still come out ahead with the $$$ savings and the draft pick. Walker not making the team? I see him playing a lot of snaps in a rotation with McCargo, Tripplet and Kyle Williams. Say goodbye to Tim Anderson. Darwin Walker will upgrade our D-line!!
DrDawkinstein Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 where does it say you have to "win" the deal? cant it be win-win with this trade? cause thats the way i see it. the players are better fit for both teams, and the teams are better fit for both players... perfect!
Koufax Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Walker not making the team? I see him playing a lot of snaps in a rotation with McCargo, Tripplet and Kyle Williams. Say goodbye to Tim Anderson. Darwin Walker will upgrade our D-line!! Agreed. I actually see him ahead of Kyle and McCargo until McCargo proves otherwise. I think he is a perfect pickup as a solid proven rotational tackle. I'm very excited to add him. Losing TKO is no fun, especially if he comes back to close to full health (which I think he will). He will be older at full health, so he won't be 2004 TKO, but he will be a very good player. Hopefully Ellison-Willis-Crowell will be the solution that doesn't leave us slapping our foreheads. While I am sorry to see TKO go and think he has some very good upside, I think this is overall a very good deal for the Bills, and better than I was expecting.
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Agreed. I actually see him ahead of Kyle and McCargo until McCargo proves otherwise. I think he is a perfect pickup as a solid proven rotational tackle. I'm very excited to add him. Losing TKO is no fun, especially if he comes back to close to full health (which I think he will). He will be older at full health, so he won't be 2004 TKO, but he will be a very good player. Hopefully Ellison-Willis-Crowell will be the solution that doesn't leave us slapping our foreheads. While I am sorry to see TKO go and think he has some very good upside, I think this is overall a very good deal for the Bills, and better than I was expecting. If he is not better than Williams then the Bills should still be in the market for a DT on the first day of the draft. McCargo is the wildcard, of course. I think this trade should benefit both teams but the Bills are definitely lacking at LB and I wouldn't mind seeing two LB's in the first four rounds.
Pyrite Gal Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Actually I think the true measure is does it make your team better and what end does the hoped for improvement create. I think folks who ignore this point actually miss what probably both teams were thinking which prompted them to make this move. Bills- They were facing a situation where they had diagnosed one of the big problems for this team was the lack of attacking LBs. Fletcher was the example folks assumed Marv was basically referring to when he made this comment in his end of the season presser, but actually I think that this opinion probably applied even more clearly to TKO. The MLB definitely has duel duty in the Hybrid Cover we we play and actually it is quite hard to fault F-Bs play in terms of pass coverage. He simply led all NFL LBs in INTS and chipped in a few sacks as well. As always the key to his game is his mobility and he played deep cover quite well. In terms of playmaking he scored two defensive TDs. In terms of stopping the run, he once again led the team in tackles and his ratio of two solo tackles to his credit to assisted tackles speaks to him generally being strong enough to bring dowm runner by himself. Still, the run stopping game was simply inadequate and though much pf this is due to our DTs not being a very good first line of defense (hence Anderson likely gone and Walker in though his contribution is going to be more as a sackmaster and QB pressure artists who will occaisionally blow up running plays by penetrating into the backfield, but run stopping is not one of his fortes in the past and we will need good/great LB play reads and aggressive play in order to really stuff the run. In the end, despite his solid tackle stats, the Bills have only once been a winner with him as a leader and as he is well into the wrong side of 30, the Bills simply decided he was not worth the cap room. However, though there is a reasonable on one hand and on the other re: Fletcher the situation is pretty clear regarding an injured TKO. 1 The tendon tear clearly robbed the Bills of two years of quality TKO play and their is a serious question of whether this will be three years in 2007, 2. He is now on the wrong side of 30 which says not only are his chances of limited recovery from the injury even higher but even a fully recovered TKO has kikely seen his best days and him returning to a team leading aggressor and risk take is not very likely even with a full physical recovery. Even with him being a Pro Bowler two years in a row this was always the cerebral Fletcher's team and TKO neither demanded nor simply took a leadership role which surpassed Fletcher whom he was bummed out was not resigned, The likelihood of him aggressively leading this team now with Fletch gone and TKO still recovering are small. 3. The Sam LB generally covers the TE instead of having to pick up an RB and is required to do less running. Even with this, TKO ended up being a running question mark and this D demands a speedy top glight performance from the LBs which is its not clear TKO can provide. Overall it remains a question whether the Bills rookie heavy squad will continue to play well this year and adequately improve or will they need another year. While it is unclear whether he will be able to recover well enough to be a leading aggressor this year, if he does not then it is even less likely that he will be better the year after that.. On the positive side for the Iggles, TKO actually does not need to recover fully or his old form to give their team what it needs. Rather than being a team leader as is required if he were a Bill, TKO is listed on the Hgilly depth chart as the #2 at all 3 LB positions. 1. The 3 starters have 8 years, 10 years and only 1 youngster Gaither in his second year. The leadership need and example is far less in Philly. 2. TKO is already on record saying he loves the Philly scheme and that unlike his duty under Jauron/Fewell the scheme was designed for a player of his type. 3. The bottomline also is that in the Philly scheme he does not need to excel every play. If he merely polls off a couple of great plays early in the season, then opponents will have to account for hi, every single play. Is TKO goo enough and recovered enough to be a leader of the team? Maybe, a true leader will need to make plays all season and be the one relied upon rather than depending on his teammates to pick up for him often. TKO is probably not the player the Bills need to become a better team but he may be just what the doctored order as even a back-up for Philly.
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