Depression setting in....

[JoeF]

Honestly, is there anything you would like to ask him? I will have his ear for about 15 minutes.

 

 

Ask him if he came back to be Bills GM just to make sure we remained pitiful losers with no hope....

[Tipster19]

Don't take a low pick and keep a guy that the staff feels is more of a liability than an asset? I forgot to mention the cap savings and the benefit of receiving some form of compensation to parlay into a younger, healthier replacement.

 

 

Listen, this is no big deal, don't let it get your panties in a wad. Go root for a winning team until Marv gets this sh-- worked out. We'll all welcome you back, we love when anyone gives our team props. If anyone comes around and wants to be negative than expect for people to unload on you, it's nothing personal.

[BB2004]

C'mon, be MORE dramatic. I can list several which pleased me less than this one.

 

1. The year we cut Bruce, Thurman and Andre.

 

 

I agree with that. That was one of the worst feelings after the Tennessee playoff game that I can remember and then our off season just added to it.

[Tipster19]

While you got Marv's ear, ask him why he is making such retarded moves like this Spikes move. Matter of fact, give him the solutions that we desperately need to make this a successful season.

[Buffalolips]

Right. And those moves would be?.....

[Tipster19]

I see no problems with the way Marv is running the team. It seems that you're not in agreement with what is happening. If marv is making a mistake then surely you have a better idea, don't you??

[The_Real]

I don't know about anyone else out there but with all of these holes to fill, I think this is the most depressing off-season I can ever remember. The gloom and doom is here and I don't think any drafted player will help that. Let's face it people...The Buffalo Bills are YEARS away from even making the playoffs.

 

Can you think of a worse offseason in recent memory?

 

Trading Spikes is the nail in the coffin for me. I understood the McGahee trade because you were going to lose him anyway but Spikes is a warrior and getting a 4th rounder or something like that for someone who pours his heart and soul into every game and practice just makes me sick to my stomach.

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more. Too many steps back and not enough forward... yet... I guess. I'll wait until opening day to see how this roster shakes out. To this point..... I'm nervous...

 

 

The Real

[todd]

Um, yeah, I can think of many worse offseasons. Remember the first year donahoe got here and we released EVERYONE? Remember when Thomas and Smith were released.

 

That's not to say I am happy with the idea of trading Spikes, but I prefer to take the offseason as a whole, and not freak out about every little thing.

 

I don't know about anyone else out there but with all of these holes to fill, I think this is the most depressing off-season I can ever remember. The gloom and doom is here and I don't think any drafted player will help that. Let's face it people...The Buffalo Bills are YEARS away from even making the playoffs.

 

Can you think of a worse offseason in recent memory?

 

Trading Spikes is the nail in the coffin for me. I understood the McGahee trade because you were going to lose him anyway but Spikes is a warrior and getting a 4th rounder or something like that for someone who pours his heart and soul into every game and practice just makes me sick to my stomach.

[Swift Sylvan]

Before you get depressed you should remember something, what often looks to be true in the off-season is true how often during the actual season? Remember, often times the guys we release who we think we'll miss, we don't and the guys we bring in either are better than we expected (see Peerless Price) or really let us down (see Tutan Reyes).

[ndirish1978]

DOOOOOOMED!!!!!

[The Dean]

lol, i'm not biting on this one.

 

 

 

You're learning fast.

 

So many morons, so little time.

[Buffalolips]

We should at least continue to look at Ian Scott DT, Lavar Arrington LB, and LaBrandon Toefield in Free agency so we at least have some holes somewhat taken care of or at least veteran presence/leadership/experience. See if these guys are healthy ( I know Arrington is a long shot because it's the same injury as TKO). Then we would need to trade down a bit to try to maximize the 2nd and 3rd rounders to fill as many holes as possible. We've just waited too long to address these positions. There is NOBODY at cornerback.

 

I understand these are bad options but I personally would feel a whole lot better with some experienced players competing in camp.

[ndirish1978]

Was Arrington sidelined because of a bad attitude?

[Astrobot]

From Wiki:

 

"Arrington was one of the Redskins' most popular and visible players—his #56 jersey outselling all other jerseys combined in the team's stores. However, his agents, the infamous Carl and Kevin Poston, neglected to inspect the final revision of the contract, in which $6.5 million worth of bonuses contained in earlier drafts were missing. The ensuing battle over the mishandling of his contract, along with a tempestuous final two seasons in which he suffered from knee injuries and was benched by head coach Joe Gibbs and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams for freelancing, created a rift between Arrington and the team. On March 5, 2006, he asked to be released by the Redskins, in essence paying the Redskins over $4 million to buy his free agency. Carl Poston was given a two-year suspension by the players' union over the mishandling of Arrington's contract.

 

In April 2006, Arrington agreed to a seven-year, $49 million contract with the New York Giants. There, Arrington was reunited with fellow Redskin expatriate, linebacker Antonio Pierce, along with his Penn State teammate and flanker, linebacker Brandon Short.

 

Arrington suffered an injury in week 7 against the Cowboys and missed the rest of the season with a ruptured Achilles tendon. On February 12, 2007, he was released by the New York Giants along with two other veterans. [4]. Since then rumors have been flying around that he is contemplating retirement."

[ndirish1978]

Oh man would that stink. Thanks for the post. As someone aspiring to be maybe be a sports agent I cringe at the thought of that oversight. Terrible.

[Lothar]

Hey lips - I think you're getting beaten up a little unfairly here. There's nothing wrong with expressing doubts about the moves we've made this offseason. Sometimes, the herd mentality around here - whether good or bad - just can't stop. Often times it's scarily deserved (like ICE's implosion) but sometimes people simply have trouble with negative opinions. I have my own issues with what's going on at 1 Bills Drive but let's look at the offseason as a whole (with apologies to Pyrite Gal for the length of this post):

 

1. McGahee - I know we all hate him and his anti-Buffalo stance but I just happened to re-watch several of our early games this season and Willis was a horse - remember he was leading the league in rushing a quarter way thru the season. He also made some spectacular blitz pickups (check out the Miami game when he stuffed 2 rushers - including Gandy's man) and allowed JP to pick up a key 1st down. All that said, he was clearly not the same back after the 1st month of the season - not sure if it was bad blocking, bad attitude or injuries but things weren't the same. Unfortunately, this move had to be made - and based on recent trades, we probably got all we could. I do think he can become a very good back in Baltimore - if he's happier and motivated.

2. Clements - I'm coming around to Marv's side on this one. I thought we should have tried to lock him up last offseason but he came off an awful year and I'm sure most of the front office had doubts. I also think that when Fewell made adjustments midseason to keep Nate on the best wideout, we suddenly became a decent defense - and that's no accident. However, the numbers he received from the Niners are preposterous, even by today's standards, and it sounds like a good cover 2 (which we don't yet have) shouldn't rely on lockdown corners.

3. Dockery - big signing (literally and financially) - I loved this move even if it seems the dollars are a bit high. Subsequent signings of Steinbach and Davis indicate it's the going rate for quality guards in the new market. Left guard has been a position of need for years and DD seems a good fit.

4. Walker - I'm scratching my head on this one. I assume McNally and Fairchild really think that ALL of his problems in Oakland came out of the blocking schemes Art Shell was implementing. Otherwise, 5 mil per year seems silly. In effect, is Pennington/Butler at RT that much worse than someone who absolutely WAS a turnstile last year in Oakland. Of all Marv's moves, this is the one I struggle with. Based on comments from pundits and scouts, people expected Walker to sign with someone for a fraction of what he did (I actually saw one scout comment that he expected LW to sign for not much more than the vet minimum.)

5. Whittle - good depth pickup, reasonable contract.

6. Spikes - salary dump, bad apple purge, injury question - I don't know about this one either. If folks are convinced that he is worse than anyone else left on the FA scrap pile, maybe it makes sense to trade him. However, Julian Peterson's return to Pro Bowl success 2 years removed from an achilles injury should be a testament to keep Takeo. Otherwise, even if we draft Willis or Poz, having Spikes' leadership is not something to easily ignore.

7. Kelsay - awful lot of money for "less than Denney" numbers but he's young and supposedly getting better.

 

What were our weaknesses going into the offseason?

1. OG

2. Maybe DT, I know McCargo's hurt but we're still lacking a run stuffer (no surprise that Indy ended up trading for one in midseason)

3. CB - expecting to lose Clements

4. Red-zone wideout

5. MLB - thinking we could lose Fletcher

 

Where are we now?

1. LB - 2/3 of our starters are gone - I like Ellison a lot but it's a big difference between fill-in and starter

2. RB - after watching tape of early season games, I think people underestimate how much Willis did behind a crappy line. But I do think RB by committee with a draft pick and an experienced Thomas as insurance will get us 80% of the way there.

3. DT - I liked the McCargo pick but he needs to show some massive improvement in year 2 plus it still doesn't give us a big body. I really would have liked to pick up a 2nd tier FA or even trade for someone - this is not something we'll quick fix in the draft like RB.

4. CB - I'm actually ok with Yobouty, assuming our run defense gets fixed. If it doesn't, Clements' departure will stick out like a sore thumb.

5. Red zone wideout - too bad we lost Nance to Minnesota.

 

All in all, given what we lost and gained - and if we take emotion out of it - I think we're worse right now than we were going into the offseason. If Marv's plan is to remake the team with his own type of players, I guess I can't begrudge him another year till we get more playmakers. But if we get worse (or even don't improve) at stopping the run - and I know "the offense will be better at controlling the ball" argument MAY come into play, this whole board will be singing a different tune by mid-season.

[Typical TBD Guy]

It is both. Don't create more holes when we have so many to begin with and the value isn't there for Spikes. The value was there with McGahee. That's why I wasn't upset about that one. Clements-too much money, I get it. London-I don't agree but at least I understood because it's 5 mil/year, he was a pursuit LB from what I studied, and not a blow up the ball carrier type.

 

DON'T TRADE SPIKES!

 

If you really want to create cap room, dump Holcomb and go with Nall and a draft pick. That would save the cash you need.

 

Technically, trading or releasing Holcomb would cost the Bills an additional half million on the cap due to the signing bonus structure in the later years of his contract. Our only hope in saving money with Holcomb is forcing him to retire. But you should have already known that. This is an egregious mistake for a self-proclaimed Bills football "expert."

 

Furthermore, in the Cover 2 and its Tampa Cover 2 variation, the Sammy LB is arguably the least important position on defense. It's not unrealistic to expect the Bills to have little trouble replacing Spikes with a younger, healthier, and faster OLB in the draft (who also won't undermine the new management/coaching leadership by publicly questioning their personnel decisions).

 

As for the other roster holes Marv has punctured, in my opinion Clements is the only "name" player we've let go who we will actually miss. McGahee has average speed, doesn't like to study playbooks, can't block, and thinks his former teammates on offense all sucked. Fletcher is too small to take down RB's at the point of attack, was becoming too slow to play the range that the Tampa Cover 2 demands, and - like many of Tom Donahoe's minions - was pretty much the definition of "choker" for most of his Buffalo tenure (best example off the top of my head: his performance in the 2004 seasons finale vs. Pittsburgh).

 

So given the results from last year's draft, I have a fair amount of confidence that RB and OLB replacements in the first day of the 2007 draft will be of equal or better production than McGahee and the post-Achilles Spikes. There are several fair options for replacing Fletcher: either through the draft (Willis, Harris, Black) or by moving Crowell to MLB and having a very capable Ellison (IMO) at the Willy spot. Clements' replacement will have to be a combination of improvement from Youboty, mid-to-late-round CB steals, and a better pass rush from a healthy McCargo and/or solid draft picks. Add all this to an extra year of experience for JP, the 2006 rookies, and the entire coaching staff, and I feel like a 10-6 record and a January 2008 AFC wild-card game appearance are entirely possible.

 

I will agree with you on one thing, though: the "trust in Marv" mantra of the rose-colored crowd (LA, LSI, Ramius, apparently JSP now, etc...) is becoming downright annoying. If you think Bills leadership is doing something wrong, go ahead and speak your mind (as long as you're not an ass about it). That's kind of what an internet message board is for: debate. Keep in mind that as late as September 2005, 90% of this board still thought TD was a genius. Anyone questioning the Gandy and Bennie Anderson signings or the 2005 draft, for instance, was ripped a new one.

[Dr. Fong]

I know it seems all doom and gloom, but look at the bright side nobody would have given the Sabres a chance in hell of being any good when the NHL started back up last year.

[The Dean]

All in all, given what we lost and gained - and if we take emotion out of it - I think we're worse right now than we were going into the offseason. If Marv's plan is to remake the team with his own type of players, I guess I can't begrudge him another year till we get more playmakers. But if we get worse (or even don't improve) at stopping the run - and I know "the offense will be better at controlling the ball" argument MAY come into play, this whole board will be singing a different tune by mid-season.

 

 

What's missing from your analysis. The FA moves are not done and the draft hasn't happened yet. We have two 3rd round picks and may add another day 1 pick with the Spikes move. To assess where we are "right now than we were going into the offseason" is senseless and pointless. The offseason has bardly begun. We'vew done most of the purging, we are in the process of reloading. Judge the job Marv does AFTER he does the job.

 

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with one, of all, of the Bills moves. But to judge the process before the process is anywhere near complete (and I mean this offseason;s process...not the entire rebuilding process) is just not fair.

 

The question is are you prepared to give Marv and his team the benefit of the doubt and delay judgement until the roster is named before the season starts?

 

Has Marv improved the team's W-L record in his short tenure?

 

Does it seem as if the attitude of the organization has improved since Marv has taken over?

 

Does Marv's past performance with the Bills give you some confidence that he has a plan and knows how to implement it?

 

I think the answer to all these questions is "Yes" and I'm willing to wait for the offseason to play out before I judge Marv's moves. Of course, you may have a different answer to those questions.

[Lothar]

What's missing from your analysis. The FA moves are not done and the draft hasn't happened yet. We have two 3rd round picks and may add another day 1 pick with the Spikes move. To assess where we are "right now than we were going into the offseason" is senseless and pointless. The offseason has bardly begun. We'vew done most of the purging, we are in the process of reloading. Judge the job Marv does AFTER he does the job.

 

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with one, of all, of the Bills moves. But to judge the process before the process is anywhere near complete (and I mean this offseason;s process...not the entire rebuilding process) is just not fair.

 

The question is are you prepared to give Marv and his team the benefit of the doubt and delay judgement until the roster is named before the season starts?

 

Has Marv improved the team's W-L record in his short tenure?

 

Does it seem as if the attitude of the organization has improved since Marv has taken over?

 

Does Marv's past performance with the Bills give you some confidence that he has a plan and knows how to implement it?

 

I think the answer to all these questions is "Yes" and I'm willing to wait for the offseason to play out before I judge Marv's moves. Of course, you may have a different answer to those questions.

 

Fair enough.

 

More importantly though, that doesn't explain your perpetually changing icon ... I know I check in to the Wall just to see the latest creative knockoff.