We are now at, where we feared we would be

[Flbillsfan#1]

This offseason has done little to inspire confidence in next season, that's for sure. But Marv is still on his honeymoon with a lot of fans so it's hard to point out a negative on TSW without getting a bunch of illogical nonsense thrown back at you. If the results don't come next season, the same people who are praising his every move will be seeing red. This is the 3rd GM and 4th HC since the HyperBills days and you can set your watch by it. If you don't meet expectations in year 2 you'd better have a good excuse.

I totally disagree with you. I think this off season could not have gone any better (so far ). 1) An O-line which showed major improvement the 2nd half of last season was seriously upgraded to where it should be a posative on the team instead of a negative. 2) Got rid of a below average (3.8 yds per carry, under 1000 yds ) underachieving, stupid, malcontent cancer, who wanted out of Buffalo badly & got a 3 & 7 this year & a 3 next year, when many posters thought we could not get better than a #4 for him. 3) Let go an above average ( not great ) CB who wanted CRAZY $$$ ( and got it ) instead of over paying for him. 4) Let go an undersize, ageing LB who does not fit the Defensive system the Bills are employing now. 5) Resigned a good CB in Thomas. 6) Resigned a good RB in Thomas. How could these moves do anything but inspire confidence in next season? There is still a whole lot of time left in this offseason which I am CONFIDENT Marv will use productivly to fill as many holes as possible. Any illogical nonsense being posted on this board is by you & the people in your camp ( many of which are TROLLS posing as Bills fans )!

[Flbillsfan#1]

I forgot to add IN MARV WE TRUST

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Without a doubt, in the end, we will probably be better off by letting McGahee. Yet if you re-read my post it is mainly about, not expecting this season to be an overly optimistic season. You can not expect a rookie RB to jump in the shoes of McGahee, and on and on with the other positions we need filled.

Actually, RB is one of the few positions where players can make an impact as a rookie. Again, it's not like McGahee put-up all-world numbers here. Hell, they weren't even average numbers.

Dockery was a good signing. Walker is known to Raider fans as the human "turnstile" and Whittle? Come on man. Whittle?

Whittle is a good utility man. As for what Raiders fans "think," if one can use such a term with them, I'd just assume believe the opposite. Their offense was possibly the worst offense in NFL history.

[udonkey]

I feared that you'd start posting your man love for Nate Clements again...and we are now at, where I feared we would be

 

Isn't there a place reserved at one of the other boards for "special" kids?

[The Jokeman]

Re: willis - 3.9 ypc, and 62 yards per game. not too difficult to replace.

 

Re: LB's - how do we need 2 starters form the draft? We have Crowell and Ellison slated to start. We need to find 1 LB in the draft to start, assuming we do trade spikes.

 

Re: CB - how do we need a starting CB from the draft? Youboty is on the roster. Hes not NC, but hes been in the system for a year, meaning we dont NEED a starting CB.

 

Most rookies make a huge jump from year 1 to year 2. They can get better you know.

 

Sorry to interrupt your rant.i'll leave now and let you and badol whisper into each other's ears how bad the bills defense is while giving each other reach-arounds.

Re: Willis, actually according to Yahoo! Willlis averaged 70.7 yards er game last year and FYI no rookie RBs were able to do that last year. Joseph Addai who lead all rookies was at 67.6.

 

Re: If Ellison was better then Spikes last year why did Takeo to his starting job back when he returned from injury? Yes, Ellison might be improved this year yet is still a question mark.

 

Re CB: Yobouty hardly saw the field last year even as a depth CB (see nickel and/or dime) to expect him to start this year is really questionable.

 

Time will tell how improved our second year players will be this year but I'm generally an optimist have to admit this year I'm indifferent and a little worried that we won't be improved this year but might even take a step back.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Re: Willis, actually according to Yahoo! Willlis averaged 70.7 yards er game last year and FYI no rookie RBs were able to do that last year. Joseph Addai who lead all rookies was at 67.6.

That's not how one should look at it. It's A-Train PLUS a rookie RB.

Re: If Ellison was better then Spikes last year why did Takeo to his starting job back when he returned from injury?

Because Ellison was a rookie and Spikes the highly-paid veteran who they wanted to evaluate for the future.

Re CB: Yobouty hardly saw the field last year even as a depth CB (see nickel and/or dime) to expect him to start this year is really questionable.

I'm not entirely comfortable with Youboty starting. But I also wasn't comfortable making Clements the highest-paid CB in NFL history and then seeing him produce seasons like 2005 and the first half of last year.

[The Jokeman]

That's not how one should look at it. It's A-Train PLUS a rookie RB.

Why are so many high on Thomas? He averaged 3.5 yards per carry last year and had less then 400 yards last year. I think asking AT to reporduce that or surpass it to maybe 600 yards and to expect a rookie to surpass 750 yards might be realistic but still on the high end especially if take a RB outside of round 1 like most seem to favor.

I'm not entirely comfortable with Youboty starting. But I also wasn't comfortable making Clements the highest-paid CB in NFL history and then seeing him produce seasons like 2005 and the first half of last year.

I can understand not why we didn't give Nate the cash but still feel we were foolish giving Langston Walker the deal we did, I mean that money might have been better suited for a veteran CB to replace Nate if needed or maybe split the money between two players. As if had a choice probably take RT like Kenyatta Walker, whose still unsigned and a CB like Roderick Hood who got $15 million over 5 years from the Cardinals. Just my two cents.

[BillsVet]

That's not how one should look at it. It's A-Train PLUS a rookie RB.

Because Ellison was a rookie and Spikes the highly-paid veteran who they wanted to evaluate for the future.

 

I'm not entirely comfortable with Youboty starting. But I also wasn't comfortable making Clements the highest-paid CB in NFL history and then seeing him produce seasons like 2005 and the first half of last year.

 

 

Is there anything the Bills front office has done wrong? There's always rationale for everything they do. I don't have a problem with them letting Clements and LFB, WM, and perhaps Spikes depart. But, the key question remains who replaces them?

 

I think that's all we're trying to point out. Some think that these positions are simply interchangeable and that anyone Marv and DJ get in here will suffice at a minimum for the short term. What if they can't? That's too negative for some people to think, but not all their draft picks are slam dunks like some would think. You can't just insert any RB next to A. Thomas and expect to get average production. A draft pick in the 2nd-3rd isn't going to give you the edge in the running game most likely. For every Jones-Drew there's someone who ends up in the CFL. And despite the Oline improvement you still need someone quick enough to exploit those holes. It's not as simple as insert body here and run there.

[MDH]

3) Let go an above average ( not great ) CB 5) Resigned a good CB in Thomas. 6) Resigned a good RB in Thomas.

 

 

So, by your reasoning Clements is an "above average" player while K. Thomas is a "good" CB and A. Thomas is a "good" RB. I suppose if that's how I assessed these players abilities I might be pleased with the offseason as well...

[JAMIEBUF12]

Re: Willis, actually according to Yahoo! Willlis averaged 70.7 yards er game last year and FYI no rookie RBs were able to do that last year. Joseph Addai who lead all rookies was at 67.6.

 

Re: If Ellison was better then Spikes last year why did Takeo to his starting job back when he returned from injury? Yes, Ellison might be improved this year yet is still a question mark.

 

Re CB: Yobouty hardly saw the field last year even as a depth CB (see nickel and/or dime) to expect him to start this year is really questionable.

 

Time will tell how improved our second year players will be this year but I'm generally an optimist have to admit this year I'm indifferent and a little worried that we won't be improved this year but might even take a step back.

actually the addai comparison is flawed.players like lawrence maroney and joe addai didn't start the season as starters,but as cory dillion and dominick rhodes backups.as the season wore on both players took more and more carrys away from the starters.now the next season is here and both(addai,maroney)are the starters on their club. willis was out rushed by anthony thomas the games that willis was out.

[pjd]

Setting aside the idea that our OL may be much improved, you seem to be assuming that everyone that remains on the team from last year will play at the exact same level this season. True, we have lost some key contributors, but we don't necessarily have to make up every bit of what they brought by finding equal replacements. It is possible (and very probable with such a young team), that the players currently on the roster will improve and play much better next season, thereby erasing this supposed gap we have created by jettisoning NC, Fletch, Willis and Spikes.

 

It is very possible the JP will continue to blossom into an upper-echelon QB as he made so many strides last season. Lee Evans will very probably continue his assent into the league's elite. Our young safety tandem could very well emerge into one of the best groups in the league. Ellison could continue to improve. Youboty could step in nicely. McCargo could come back from the injury and continue to improve. Roscoe could develop into a more capable WR and even more of a dangerous homerun threat. The entire team as a whole could improve after having another full offseason with what was almost an entirely new coaching staff.

 

Or none of that could happen...but I loved what I saw of this team as the season went on. And I love how many rookies contributed in significant ways. I have no reason to believe that we can't get similar production from whoever we draft this April.

[pjd]

There is also the possibility that we could get lucky. An opponent's DB drops a sure interception, or better still knocks it into the air for another of our receivers to catch (for a touchdown). So much goes into the winning or losing of a game. Weather, last weeks results, even a perceived match-up advantage,or not, with an opponent. If you have a

decent team (which all NFL teams are) then if the wind blows right then you win. Why not us. That's why we are fans.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Why are so many high on Thomas? He averaged 3.5 yards per carry last year and had less then 400 yards last year. I think asking AT to reporduce that or surpass it to maybe 600 yards and to expect a rookie to surpass 750 yards might be realistic but still on the high end especially if take a RB outside of round 1 like most seem to favor.

McGahee's average against teams not named the Jets was 3.3. Again to counter your "a rookie would need to get more than 70 YPG" argument, I said it would be a RB-by-committee. And again, the O-line has been upgraded.

I can understand not why we didn't give Nate the cash but still feel we were foolish giving Langston Walker the deal we did, I mean that money might have been better suited for a veteran CB to replace Nate if needed or maybe split the money between two players. As if had a choice probably take RT like Kenyatta Walker, whose still unsigned and a CB like Roderick Hood who got $15 million over 5 years from the Cardinals. Just my two cents.

The Bills had their chance at Rod Hood and either didn't want him or he didn't want them.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I spoke about this multiple times throughout the year in many different threads concerning Nate Clements and his possible departure. Now looking back, this off season (to me anyhow) has become worse then I could ever had imagined a few months ago. Yes, good teams are built through the draft. I understand that. But while they make themselves a good team through the draft, these teams are mostly willing to keep good veterans on the roster to groom the draftees and make them better. We have now let Nate Clements, London Fletcher, Willis McGahee, and Takeo Spikes (assuming) all go. This is concerning basically due to the fact that we do not already have good draftees waiting in the wings to take over these positions. We have no premier RB on the staff. Furthermore we do not even have a RB that has the possibility of a becoming a premier RB.

 

We, as Bills nation, are relying on the fact that we can "trust in Marv" and that the draft is not yet here. I hope some of you come to realize that for us to even match the record/possibility of the team we had last year, we must draft a RB who is as good immediately as Willis McGahee. Two linebackers, who are as good as Takeo Spikes and London Fletcher, immediately, and a CB who is as good as Nate Clements is, immediately (Good luck). Yes, maybe we will have a draft that will produce good players in the future (2-3 years), but I doubt any of our draftees will be as good as the players we let go, in their rookie season. Therefore, please understand that we will probably, undoubtedly, take a step back this season.

 

And all the optimists say (all together now) "trust in marv"

 

1) It is clear that Marv and co. thought our LB's were not good enough--hence, letting Fletcher walk and trading Spikes. I wonder if they're thinking that an early draft pick at LB will be better than an aging Fletcher or slowed Spikes.

 

2) You overestimate McGahee's value. The Colts weren't afraid to let a back like Edge walk (a RB 10 times better than WM), because they knew they could get a star RB in the draft who could start right away. Good RB's are easy to draft.

 

3) Clements will be hard to replace--but $80 million on one player would have killed the team.

[MDH]

3) Clements will be hard to replace--but $80 million on one player would have killed the team.

 

I keep seeing this argument but it's really not relevant. The Bills should have locked Clements up last year when it would have cost less. At the very least they should have never promised that they wouldn't franchise him again. Sure, once he hit FA there was no way they should have signed him but they shouldn't have let it get that far.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I keep seeing this argument but it's really not relevant. The Bills should have locked Clements up last year when it would have cost less. At the very least they should have never promised that they wouldn't franchise him again. Sure, once he hit FA there was no way they should have signed him but they shouldn't have let it get that far.

The only mistake was agreeing to not franchise him again. But I don't believe that Nate would have signed last year for much less tahn he's receiving now.

[daquix]

Diquix,

 

I can understand your point of view....but why do you say "this offensive line"?

 

This line is severely upgraded....they were playing better in the second half of the season and then they bring in Dockery (I will reserve judgement on the other 2) Peters is going to be a pro bowl talent very soon......

 

Whoever is running behind THIS line is going to look VERY good. Also....it seems to me that Anthony Thomas was much better at certain RB aspects then Willis....namely pass protection and receiving.

 

You bring up valid points. McGahee did improve in pass protection by the end of the season though.

 

 

This offseason has done little to inspire confidence in next season, that's for sure. But Marv is still on his honeymoon with a lot of fans so it's hard to point out a negative on TSW without getting a bunch of illogical nonsense thrown back at you. If the results don't come next season, the same people who are praising his every move will be seeing red. This is the 3rd GM and 4th HC since the HyperBills days and you can set your watch by it. If you don't meet expectations in year 2 you'd better have a good excuse.

 

This is one of my main areas of concern. Everyone is in love with Marv and what we are doing, and believe that nothing can go wrong.

 

Re: willis - 3.9 ypc, and 62 yards per game. not too difficult to replace.

 

Re: LB's - how do we need 2 starters form the draft? We have Crowell and Ellison slated to start. We need to find 1 LB in the draft to start, assuming we do trade spikes.

 

Re: CB - how do we need a starting CB from the draft? Youboty is on the roster. Hes not NC, but hes been in the system for a year, meaning we dont NEED a starting CB.

 

Most rookies make a huge jump from year 1 to year 2. They can get better you know.

 

Sorry to interrupt your rant.i'll leave now and let you and badol whisper into each other's ears how bad the bills defense is while giving each other reach-arounds.

 

Refer to Jokers post.

 

 

Actually, RB is one of the few positions where players can make an impact as a rookie. Again, it's not like McGahee put-up all-world numbers here. Hell, they weren't even average numbers.

 

Whittle is a good utility man. As for what Raiders fans "think," if one can use such a term with them, I'd just assume believe the opposite. Their offense was possibly the worst offense in NFL history.

 

So because the Oakland Raiders offense was a horrid offense that means the fans are not to be believed? Your own law of syllogism is mind boggling.

 

I feared that you'd start posting your man love for Nate Clements again...and we are now at, where I feared we would be

 

Isn't there a place reserved at one of the other boards for "special" kids?

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with Nate Clements, and if you think so, then you either 1) Did not read the entire post or 2) Did not understand what you read.

 

Is there anything the Bills front office has done wrong? There's always rationale for everything they do. I don't have a problem with them letting Clements and LFB, WM, and perhaps Spikes depart. But, the key question remains who replaces them?

 

I think that's all we're trying to point out. Some think that these positions are simply interchangeable and that anyone Marv and DJ get in here will suffice at a minimum for the short term. What if they can't? That's too negative for some people to think, but not all their draft picks are slam dunks like some would think. You can't just insert any RB next to A. Thomas and expect to get average production. A draft pick in the 2nd-3rd isn't going to give you the edge in the running game most likely. For every Jones-Drew there's someone who ends up in the CFL. And despite the Oline improvement you still need someone quick enough to exploit those holes. It's not as simple as insert body here and run there.

 

Thank-you. You very simply summarized my post in a simple paragraph.

 

They say you learn something every day. Today I learned that if you have any negatism towards Marv Levy or how the Buffalo Bills offseason is going, then you might as well not post it at TBD, because this is the land of eternal optimism.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

So because the Oakland Raiders offense was a horrid offense that means the fans are not to be believed? Your own law of syllogism is mind boggling.

Um, no. Raiders fans are idiots. And the Raiders had the worst offense of all time, led by 2 coaches who hadn't coached in over 5 years. Believe it or not, but schemes count for something.

 

As for trusting in the Bills, it's either believe them or believe people like you. The Bills had the ability to keep Clements, LFB, McGahee, AND Spikes, but chose not to do so.

[Tipster19]

What are you suggesting, that we write off the season? This is a Bills' message board. There's a good chance that you are going to find Bills' fans on it. It's understandable that most folks here are going to be optimistic about their favorite team in the off season, as they should be.

 

This is not the beginning of the season. If it was then the negative outlook would be more valid. Marv has done nothing but improve this team since he's been here. It's not where it needs to be but it's getting there. There is definitely areas of concern and need, no arguement there, but to sling mud at this staff is unjust. They are moving in the right direction, all the while keeping the team somewhat competitive and exciting. They have definitely improved the current roster and preparing it for even better success in the future.

 

So, what's the beef? We don't have enough qualified players this year? Can we at least have a draft and see what happens after June 1st before we conclude what will happen for us this season and what kind of bum our GM is? Thanks.

[BillsVet]

What are you suggesting, that we write off the season? This is a Bills' message board. There's a good chance that you are going to find Bills' fans on it. It's understandable that most folks here are going to be optimistic about their favorite team in the off season, as they should be.

 

This is not the beginning of the season. If it was then the negative outlook would be more valid. Marv has done nothing but improve this team since he's been here. It's not where it needs to be but it's getting there. There is definitely areas of concern and need, no arguement there, but to sling mud at this staff is unjust. They are moving in the right direction, all the while keeping the team somewhat competitive and exciting. They have definitely improved the current roster and preparing it for even better success in the future.

 

So, what's the beef? We don't have enough qualified players this year? Can we at least have a draft and see what happens after June 1st before we conclude what will happen for us this season and what kind of bum our GM is? Thanks.

 

I've heard DJ talk about, "moving in the right direction" quite a bit this off-season. If it's not fair to criticize the front office and coaching staff, it's not fair to declare their moves successful. The season will ultimately be the only thing to decide this. Frankly, I don't believe everything the front office or DJ says.

 

You don't seem to understand what this team is up against. We're not going to sign talented veteran cuts after 1 June because we simply don't have the funds. Spikes' cap hit is roughly 6.4 million this season. Should he be traded, that frees up enough money to sign the rookies, including the first rounder's signing bonus and keep us within the framework of cash to the cap.

 

When you rely on the draft for this season's success and 1 June cuts, it's simply a dangerous recipe.

 

Optimism for the sake of optimism is a dangerous thing. George Patton once said, "If everybody's thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking.” And that's what some on this board have become- fans who do not take counsel of their fears purely to make themselves feel better.