Let me tell you guys something....

[Lv-Bills]

Only 2? What did you do with the Carolina one you bought last year? Thew it away cause they probably won't make the playoffs?

Don't have one, but I can say what I did with the four extra tickets we bought in 2002 when they played the Wings in the finals. I did about $1600 for four of them. Two games a piece, from a doctor from the Red Wings message boards.

 

Two Stanley Cups finals games in Raleigh.......a total of eight seats sold.......$3200. To me, that's enough to long for another Carolina Stanley Cup series. No such luck last year vs. Edmonton.

 

God bless Wings fans!!! My Bills, bar themed gameroom, in my basement is still thanking me to this day!

[Alaska Darin]

This team is a mere image, albeit younger, of that team. This Penguins team is already good, and young.

Let me know when they win their first playoff series, will you? Until that moment, they have nothing more than POTENTIAL. POTENTIAL means you aren't worth a damn yet. I guess it's some kind of societal thing to need to build something up before it actually does anything. Which is why American Karoeke is so successful, I guess.

Lemieux's Penguins took years to become the team that dominated the NHL for a few years.

Uh, because there was no salary cap and that allowed the big money teams to keep their stars and steal yours the second they hit free agency. But don't let that get in the way of how great the Penguins are right now.

That Pens team had a core of Lemiuex, Jagr and Francis. Period. There was a little bit of Mullen, Stevens, and Murphy sprinkled in. Guys like Coffey were there briefly, along with Ulf Samuleson and Rick Tocchet.

A little bit of Mullen, Stevens and Murphy? Are you kidding me?

 

1991 playoffs:

 

Mullen: 17 points in 22 games. (averaged nearly a point a game in his FIVE YEAR Penguins' career) (Hall of Famer)

Stevens: 33 points in 24 games. (86 points in the regular season or 29 more than JAGR) (SEVEN seasons in Pittsburgh, where he averaged OVER a point per game in BOTH the regular season AND playoffs)

Murphy: 23 points in 23 games. (averaged over a point a postseason game in his FIVE YEAR Penguins' career) (Hall of Famer) Lookout Larry. Here comes Ryan Whitney.

Coffey: 11 points in 12 games. (After scoring NINETY THREE points in the regular season and averaging over 1.16 PPG in FIVE apparently brief seasons in Pittsburgh). (Hall of Famer). You're right. Brooks Orkpik is gonna crush Coffey's achievements.

 

I'm sure each of these players appreciates your supposedly "die hard" fandom of minimizing their HALF A DECADE EACH of accomplishment during the ONLY glory days of the franchise. You're a real fan.

If anything, your argument would have been better if you would have mentioned Robbie Brown and the plugger Phil Borque in that bunch.

Your statement was that the current Penguins are more talented than the Cup winning teams. Why the hell would I mention a role player and a guy who had one amazing NHL season? You do understand bringing up Rob Brown torpedoes YOUR argument, right?

The fact that you mentioned Brian Trottier is laughable as he was about 90 yrs old when with the Pens.

You're right, it's pure folly for teams to bring in proven veterans with Cup winning experience, as it has no effect on postseason. I'm sure that's why the current Pens leadership didn't bother with Gary Roberts this year. [/dumbass]

Tommy B was the beneficiary of the offensive skill in front of him. Period. He might have been one the most over-rated goaltenders of all time. The Penguins used to win many games 10-7, 8-6, 6-5 back then. As a matter of fact, and I think unjustified, a lot of Burgh fans sometimes called for Ken Wregget to be in goal instead of Barrasso.

Sure. Just like Ryan Miller. The fact that the Pens were a completely unresponsible defensive team in that era is the goalies fault. The reason you idiots think you were justified in calling for Wregget is the team reigned themselves in when the backup took the ice - BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY HAD TO.

Anyway, this current team is already better at a MUCH MUCH younger age. When you add a new arena, the Pens will able not only keep alot of these guys, but also add some new one's that will be like Paul Coffey, Samuelson and Tocchet. Sergei Gonchar is already thriving because of the young talent in front of him. No one will be Paul Coffey though.

It's nice that you think in the salary cap era that teams are going to be able to not only hold on to multiple stars, but also sign Hall of Famers from other teams to compliment them. Try reality. It tastes a little like chicken.

 

Watch what happens to the Sabres this offseason, when they have to start choosing which stars they keep. I don't care what other revenue sources are generated. THERE IS A CAP. That means guys like Crosby will get MAX contracts or close to, leaving only 80% or so to the other 19 guys on the roster. Arbitration alone will kill teams that draft well.

The things Penguins fans are seeing now are uncanny of things those early 90's teams used to do. Crosby will take Lemieux's place in Pittsburgh lore in terms of statistical achievement. I don't think Crosby will be quite as good as Mario, however, if he stays healthy, he will surpass and reset many of Mario's records.

Mario was hurt A LOT.

You better hope the NHL management changes their views, because the amount of punishment Crosby has taken to date will add up in a big hurry, as it did with Lemieux.

 

Malkin, in most Burgh fans opinion will be better than Jagr. Malkin has an incredible shot. This guy has a knack for scoring Mario-esque goals already. He has a lot to learn yet, but his flashes of brialliance are already just as bright as Jagr's were. Jordan Staal also comes from a great hockey pedigree and is arguably already as good as Malkin. These guys are all 20 years old or younger, and at certain times are dominating the NHL.

And three years from now, you'll be lucky to have one of them still on the roster. As for how good they are going to be, they've got a long way to go to approach the success of the players you wannabees are comparing them to. Ask Eric Staal how much fun THIS season has been for him. I'm pretty sure he was REALLY good last season.

The new trio of Crosby, Malkin, and Staal could easily eclipse what Mario, Jagr and Francis were able to do. Mario's health wrecked alot of the Pens plans back then.......if this trio stays healthy, the Pens will be adding more cups than that 90's group. It's been a long time since, essentially, a bunch of teenagers have made the rest of the NHL look silly.

It's amazing that people don't understand how hard it is to win a Stanley Cup. Detroit had the best regular season team in the NHL for the better part of a decade, winning the President's Trophy SIX times, with over half a roster of proven veteran guys on their way to the Hall of Fame and struggled to match what the Penguins did despite spending as much money as anyone in the league (and double and triple nearly half the teams). But some group of young guys in the salary cap era is gonna win MORE because they make pretty plays in the regular season. Sure they are.

[BillsFanNC]

I was given free suite tickets for the Canes -Lightning game tonight. I hope that I don't end up having a good time or I might end up a 'Caniac' by the end of the night.

[DC Tom]

It's amazing that people don't understand how hard it is to win a Stanley Cup.

 

One of the hardest achievements in sports, except for maybe getting Kobe Bryant to pass the damned ball...

[taterhill]

One of the hardest achievements in sports, except for maybe getting Kobe Bryant to pass the damned ball...

getting a fried bologna sandwich at the Ralph is up there...

[Lv-Bills]

Let me know when they win their first playoff series, will you? Until that moment, they have nothing more than POTENTIAL. POTENTIAL means you aren't worth a damn yet. I guess it's some kind of societal thing to need to build something up before it actually does anything. Which is why American Karoeke is so successful, I guess.

 

Uh, because there was no salary cap and that allowed the big money teams to keep their stars and steal yours the second they hit free agency. But don't let that get in the way of how great the Penguins are right now.

 

A little bit of Mullen, Stevens and Murphy? Are you kidding me?

 

1991 playoffs:

 

Mullen: 17 points in 22 games. (averaged nearly a point a game in his Penguins' career) (Hall of Famer)

Stevens: 33 points in 24 games. (86 points in the regular season or 29 more than JAGR)

Murphy: 23 points in 23 games. (averaged over a point a postseason game in his Penguins' career) (Hall of Famer) Lookout Larry. Here comes Ryan Whitney.

Coffey: 11 points in 12 games. (After scoring NINETY THREE points in the regular season and averaging over 1.16 PPG in FIVE apparently brief seasons in Pittsburgh). (Hall of Famer). You're right. Brooks Orkpik is gonna crush Coffey's achievements.

 

Your statement was that the current Penguins are more talented than the Cup winning teams. Why the hell would I mention a role player and a guy who had one amazing NHL season? You do understand bringing up Rob Brown torpedoes YOUR argument, right?

 

You're right, it's pure folly for teams to bring in proven veterans with Cup winning experience, as it has no effect on postseason. I'm sure that's why the current Pens leadership didn't bother with Gary Roberts this year. [/dumbass]

 

Sure. Just like Ryan Miller. The fact that the Pens were a completely unresponsible defensive team in that era is the goalies fault. The reason you idiots think you were justified in calling for Wregget is the team reigned themselves in when the backup took the ice - BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY HAD TO.

 

It's nice that you think in the salary cap era that teams are going to be able to not only hold on to multiple stars, but also sign Hall of Famers from other teams to compliment them. Try reality. It tastes a little like chicken.

 

Watch what happens to the Sabres this offseason, when they have to start choosing which stars they keep. I don't care what other revenue sources are generated. THERE IS A CAP. That means guys like Crosby will get MAX contracts or close to, leaving only 80% or so to the other 19 guys on the roster. Arbitration alone will kill teams that draft well.

 

You better hope the NHL management changes their views, because the amount of punishment Crosby has taken to date will add up in a big hurry, as it did with Lemieux.

And three years from now, you'll be lucky to have one of them still on the roster. As for how good they are going to be, they've got a long way to go to approach the success of the players you wannabees are comparing them to. Ask Eric Staal how much fun THIS season has been for him. I'm pretty sure he was REALLY good last season.

 

It's amazing that people don't understand how hard it is to win a Stanley Cup. Detroit had the best regular season team in the NHL for the better part of a decade, winning the President's Trophy SIX times, with over half a roster of proven veteran guys on their way to the Hall of Fame and struggled to match what the Penguins did despite spending as much money as anyone in the league (and double and triple nearly half the teams). But some group of young guys in the salary cap era is gonna win MORE because they make pretty plays in the regular season. Sure they are.

I don't know to quote everything, so I'll just go paragraph by paragraph.

 

Did anyone say anything about their first playoff series? Hell, I'm not sure the Pens can beat Ottawa THIS year, if we slide into the 4 or 5 hole in the Easetern Conference. I mean, you have some pretty established teams that will be taking on a teenage Penguins team. I mean, I would expect the Sens and Sabres to be better at this point, but the Penguins are at the door as we speak, and they are ready to beat the door down. Our teenagers made need a year of season first.

 

LOL. The salary cap has already gone up. By the time the Pens have to seriously re-purchase the services of their stars, there should be more room to do it. I'm not saying it's going to be enough, but there will be room. I mean, no schitt, who the hell doesn't know this. The is the biggest concern in Pittsburgh at the moment. It's a huge concern, because everyone watching this team grow up, knows that it strikes eery resemblance to the 90's Pens. The cap could be the killer.

 

The amount of punishment Crosby is taking now is high. However, it's not as high as it would have been over the past ten years. And yet, these teenage kids are still putting up gaudy numbers in spite of that. Wait until maturity hits, a little more bulk, and seasoning. These skill players are only goint to get better.

 

Yeah OK, we are talking about Crosby and Malkin, not ERIC STAAL. Jordan Staal is a bit of a surprise. Everyone knows that. But the things he's able to do with the puck show that he is talented beyond most draft picks. His ability to kill penalties and score shorthanded is unreal. And I'll make sure I'll write down that the Pens will be lucky to have ONE of these guys on our roster years from now. I'm pretty Sidney Crosby will be here a long long time. Especially since he lives with the owner. I'll take my chances. LOL

 

And yeah, I could care less about pretty goals. But, the fact that they are pretty shows their talent level, already. THEY ARE ALL BARELY ABOVE HIGH SCHOOL AGE KIDS. They are all teenagers. The Penguins have a stockpile of playmaking teenagers, which means the future is bright. This Penguins team, as a bunch of teenagers, are already in the upper echelon of the NHL. If you take out their slow start this year, you could argue that they are already the best team in the NHL. Although I don't think that, you could say that. Hard to win a cup? Of course it is. Stocked and built to win a Stanley Cup? Well, let's see, when a core group of teenagers dominate a pro sports league, well hell yeah, I think it's reasonable to think this team is destined to do some great things.

 

There might not have been a salary cap back then, but the Pens were considered a large market "type" of team when Howard Baldwin bought them. He bankrolled the PEns like they were the Rangers and then sent them into bankruptcy from it. Thank god though, because those Pens teams were terrific.

 

And I know I'm right about a little bit of Mullen, etc. Points in that era of the NHL were about as easy to come by as fat kids at a McDonald's birthday party. The reason the Penguins were able to get over the top were because of additions like Ulf Samuelson, Rick Tocchet, and the like. Phil Borque was the only Penguin, from those teams, that would go into the corner and scrap for the puck. Even Kjell Samuleson and those types of players were invaluable to the Pens, because it let their top two lines play freely. Guys like Mullen, and some of the other guys (different positions) who played the point were devasting only because of Lemieux commanding so much space on the ice. Jagr also created them space. And Ronny Francis was one of the greatest Pens, back then, at winning faceoffs. It's pretty amazing that no one won anything without Lemieux. The Pens teams without Lemieux, were second round playoff losers consistently. Stevens, Brown and the like, fell off of the face of the Earth when Lemieux was out of the picture. It's even more so proven when Lemiuex came back in 2001, and the Pens rode the 95 year old superstar back to the Eastern Conference Finals. With Jagr and Francis, the Pens suffered a bit. The early 90's Pens power play was so devastating that defenseman used to pile up points playing out at the point. It's easy to see why they piled up so many stats. Guys like Coffey and those caliber players came and went.......but until they got some pluggers, those Penguin teams weren't as dominant. The current Phil Borque is more like Ruutu. Not Orpik.

 

Again, Brian Trottier on our Pens team is laughable. Yeah, I'm sure they couldn't have done it without him. He was definately the key.

 

No, it was kind of because Barrasso really wasn't a GREAT goaltender. Period. With all of these hall of famers in front of him, you'd think he would have done a tad better. Actually Tommy B was considered inconsistent. I mean, he ask any Pens fan about the Islanders in game 7 from the blue line. Tommy B was average. Not that Wregget was better, but Tommy B wasn't anything to write home about either. Very Over-rated.

[X. Benedict]

It's amazing that people don't understand how hard it is to win a Stanley Cup.

 

I don't get that either, they should ask Ray Bourque, one of the best players ever to live, he'll tell you that they they pretty much hand the things out. His playoff experience is probably equal to 3 or 4 additional regular seasons.

 

He was in the playoffs 22 out of 24 years before he lifted it in his final game.

 

Probably the only thing that is harder is to be an undisputed heavyweight champion,

but that is only because boxing is so !@#$ed up.

[smokinandjokin]

Yeah OK, we are talking about Crosby and Malkin, not ERIC STAAL. Jordan Staal is a bit of a surprise.

 

I'm pretty sure the point AD was making was referring to the fact that last season, Eric Stall was a 21-year old superstar on a Stanley Cup champ who was destined for greatness and apparently unstoppable. Now he's having a down year on a team that is barely in playoff contention. Fans and media alike love crowning the king before he slays the dragon. Things can change very quickly in the world of athletics.

 

And I know I'm right about a little bit of Mullen, etc. Points in that era of the NHL were about as easy to come by as fat kids at a McDonald's birthday party.

 

Points were so easy to come by and the game was so wide open that Lemieux must have been joking around when he lobbied to the league for YEARS about removing the clutching, grabbing, holding and hooking, and then eventually RETIRED when the league did nothing to change the game or enforce the rules. Lemieux was BEGGING for the rules to be interpreted like they are today. You can't say because Lemieux and Gretzky, possibly the two greatest of all time, were tallying 175 points per season that the entire league was a scoring bonanza. Those Pens won games 8-5 because they were that good offensively, and they did it despite the interference and hooking.

 

Three 19-year old stars is very promising, but guarantees nothing. With this team, plus the arena announcement, I fully understand the excitement of the Pittsburgh fans. The reality is, based on their current performances, all three young bucks could be $5-$7 million per year players. Plus a goalie who was selected #1 overall. When it comes time for raises, there is NO WAY a team can be successful spending nearly 40% of their salary allowance on four players. They are not going to have the luxury of watching these guys grow together for 10 years.

[Taro T]

I'm pretty sure the point AD was making was referring to the fact that last season, Eric Stall was a 21-year old superstar on a Stanley Cup champ who was destined for greatness and apparently unstoppable. Now he's having a down year on a team that is barely in playoff contention. Fans and media alike love crowning the king before he slays the dragon. Things can change very quickly in the world of athletics.

Points were so easy to come by and the game was so wide open that Lemieux must have been joking around when he lobbied to the league for YEARS about removing the clutching, grabbing, holding and hooking, and then eventually RETIRED when the league did nothing to change the game or enforce the rules. Lemieux was BEGGING for the rules to be interpreted like they are today. You can't say because Lemieux and Gretzky, possibly the two greatest of all time, were tallying 175 points per season that the entire league was a scoring bonanza. Those Pens won games 8-5 because they were that good offensively, and they did it despite the interference and hooking.

 

Three 19-year old stars is very promising, but guarantees nothing. With this team, plus the arena announcement, I fully understand the excitement of the Pittsburgh fans. The reality is, based on their current performances, all three young bucks could be $5-$7 million per year players. Plus a goalie who was selected #1 overall. When it comes time for raises, there is NO WAY a team can be successful spending nearly 40% of their salary allowance on four players. They are not going to have the luxury of watching these guys grow together for 10 years.

But it's worked so well for Tampa spending a ton of their money on 3 players.

[Alaska Darin]

I don't know to quote everything, so I'll just go paragraph by paragraph.

 

Did anyone say anything about their first playoff series? Hell, I'm not sure the Pens can beat Ottawa THIS year, if we slide into the 4 or 5 hole in the Easetern Conference. I mean, you have some pretty established teams that will be taking on a teenage Penguins team. I mean, I would expect the Sens and Sabres to be better at this point, but the Penguins are at the door as we speak, and they are ready to beat the door down. Our teenagers made need a year of season first.

How many historic examples would you like of talented teams "knocking at the door" and never getting it done, BILLS fan?

The amount of punishment Crosby is taking now is high. However, it's not as high as it would have been over the past ten years. And yet, these teenage kids are still putting up gaudy numbers in spite of that. Wait until maturity hits, a little more bulk, and seasoning. These skill players are only goint to get better.

It's good that you know that. Any other crystal ball things on your mind, like growth stocks?

Yeah OK, we are talking about Crosby and Malkin, not ERIC STAAL.

You're right. Staal has won a Cup.

Jordan Staal is a bit of a surprise. Everyone knows that. But the things he's able to do with the puck show that he is talented beyond most draft picks. His ability to kill penalties and score shorthanded is unreal. And I'll make sure I'll write down that the Pens will be lucky to have ONE of these guys on our roster years from now. I'm pretty Sidney Crosby will be here a long long time. Especially since he lives with the owner. I'll take my chances. LOL

I was referring to one of either Malkin or Staal. Again, you simply don't understand the salary cap. There's no way to keep multiple highly paid players in the this era and field a dynastic team. Eventually the Penguins will be in the position of other successful teams with superstars. They'll have to decide which guys to keep and what each is worth. Crosby is going to get max money. That's only going to leave 80-85% for the entire rest of the team.

And yeah, I could care less about pretty goals. But, the fact that they are pretty shows their talent level, already. THEY ARE ALL BARELY ABOVE HIGH SCHOOL AGE KIDS. They are all teenagers. The Penguins have a stockpile of playmaking teenagers, which means the future is bright. This Penguins team, as a bunch of teenagers, are already in the upper echelon of the NHL. If you take out their slow start this year, you could argue that they are already the best team in the NHL.

No, you could. I wouldn't say that at all. They're on a nice run here at the end of the year and alot of it has to do with the fact that they're healthy at a time when most teams aren't.

Although I don't think that, you could say that. Hard to win a cup? Of course it is. Stocked and built to win a Stanley Cup? Well, let's see, when a core group of teenagers dominate a pro sports league, well hell yeah, I think it's reasonable to think this team is destined to do some great things.

A valid argument if games were played on paper.

There might not have been a salary cap back then, but the Pens were considered a large market "type" of team when Howard Baldwin bought them. He bankrolled the PEns like they were the Rangers and then sent them into bankruptcy from it. Thank god though, because those Pens teams were terrific.

Thanks for making my point. But tell me again how they're going to add guys like Coffey in the salary cap era (ignoring the fact that there isn't a single guy in the NHL who compares, and offensive defensemen like Neidermeyer get close to max contracts).

And I know I'm right about a little bit of Mullen, etc. Points in that era of the NHL were about as easy to come by as fat kids at a McDonald's birthday party.

Right. Let's minimize the contribution of arguably the greatest American hockey player ever. I wonder why Mario retired the first time, with points being so easy to get?

[Alaska Darin]

The reason the Penguins were able to get over the top were because of additions like Ulf Samuelson, Rick Tocchet, and the like. Phil Borque was the only Penguin, from those teams, that would go into the corner and scrap for the puck.

You mean a role player played a role? That's so unheard of in team sports. Any other gems? You know, like "it's important to score more goals than your opponents?"

 

I'd spend time disagreeing with the point on going into corners but it's like screaming at a fence post. And the fencepost would be in a place where apparently they know dick about hockey.

Even Kjell Samuleson and those types of players were invaluable to the Pens, because it let their top two lines play freely.

See previous quote.

Guys like Mullen, and some of the other guys (different positions) who played the point were devasting only because of Lemieux commanding so much space on the ice. Jagr also created them space. And Ronny Francis was one of the greatest Pens, back then, at winning faceoffs. It's pretty amazing that no one won anything without Lemieux.

Gee, great players make other players better? Does it take more than one of them to win in a team sport, too?

The Pens teams without Lemieux, were second round playoff losers consistently. Stevens, Brown and the like, fell off of the face of the Earth when Lemieux was out of the picture. It's even more so proven when Lemiuex came back in 2001, and the Pens rode the 95 year old superstar back to the Eastern Conference Finals. With Jagr and Francis, the Pens suffered a bit.

What team regularly wins in the postseason with injuries to their best player? Answer: NONE. Stevens' fall had anything to do with Lemieux's Hodgkins or injury. Unless Mario was giving Stevens cash for drugs and prostitutes.

The early 90's Pens power play was so devastating that defenseman used to pile up points playing out at the point. It's easy to see why they piled up so many stats. Guys like Coffey and those caliber players came and went.......but until they got some pluggers, those Penguin teams weren't as dominant. The current Phil Borque is more like Ruutu. Not Orpik.

Defensemen who used to pile up points? You mean Hall of Famers like Coffey and Murphy, who were going to Toronto no matter whether they stopped in Pittsburgh or not?

 

Newsflash, skippy: Players the caliber of "guys like Coffey" are named ORR.

Again, Brian Trottier on our Pens team is laughable. Yeah, I'm sure they couldn't have done it without him. He was definately the key.

Cups before Trottier: ZERO

Cups with Trottier: TWO

Cups after Trottier: ZERO

 

I never said he was key, that's just a garbage point because you've been caught with your pants down. You have the typical fan's perspective, like you never laced the bones. Lockeroom presence is just as important as on ice contributions. Guys like Trots have unmeasurable credit, which is why the Sabres went out and got Chris Drury, the Pens this season traded for Roberts, andthe Sharks overpaid for Guerin.

 

In fact, the Penguins discounted Trottier's contribution much the same way you did. They certainly didn't hire him to be an assistant coach the minute he retired. Oh wait, that's EXACTLY what they did.

No, it was kind of because Barrasso really wasn't a GREAT goaltender. Period. With all of these hall of famers in front of him, you'd think he would have done a tad better. Actually Tommy B was considered inconsistent. I mean, he ask any Pens fan about the Islanders in game 7 from the blue line. Tommy B was average. Not that Wregget was better, but Tommy B wasn't anything to write home about either. Very Over-rated.

I never said Barrasso was a great goaltender. He was above average and at times spectacular. Much like the overabundance of credit that Brodeur gets in New Jersey, Barrasso gets roasted because his team wasn't very responsible in their own zone. It was a choice that was made because of the team they had.

[Cornerville]

Barassao reminded me of Jack Morris in baseball..overall stats are very good, some of his years were unspectactular...but were both big game performers when it mattered.

[mellaman101]

Hold on a second, and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you a huge Canes fan last year? I may be thinking of someone else. Not surprising if you are that guy though, the Canes had tons of fans last year who were "life long fans" of some other team.

 

Outside of that I do agree with your take on the upcoming playoffs.

 

I bet he has a colts hat too