jri111 Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 rotoworld: Paul Posluszny-LB- Player Mar. 23 - 1:03 pm et Penn State LB Paul Posluszny ran forties of 4.58 and 4.62 at his Pro Day. The 4-3 outside linebacker prospect and possible 3-4 inside linebacker improved on his 4.67 Combine time and looks to be a first-round pick. Source: nfl.com Tony Hunt-RB- Player Mar. 23 - 1:01 pm et Penn State RB Tony Hunt ran 4.68 and 4.71 forties at his Pro Day. Hunt's short shuttle time (4.72) was also poor and he displayed weak athleticism with a 31.5-inch vertical. He hurt himself on his home turf. Source: nfl.com ---------------------------- I am by no means a numbers guy, I think overall they mean sh*t. You can either player football or you cant. It's about what you can do on the field and what's in your heart. That said I'm surpirsed by these numbers. Going into combine/workout season people said Puz's numbers may hurt him becasue his strenths are more instinctive then atheltism. So I'm surprised/happy he did good, he's a great player/teammate/leader and whoever gets him is going to get a good player. Hunt on the otherhand really surprised me how slow he ran. I still think he's going to be good in thise league, but his poor day may have dropped him into the third round, maybe even the 4th. He's another gamer that can wear on you. His draft stock has been rising the last few months, but now, these numbers seem to indiacte he'll slip. Could mean we could get a "steal" in the third round though!
Billsjunkie Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Again these pro-days and combines don't show me a darn thing. How does the player perform on the football field when they have all these bodies flying round. Anquon Boldin ran a 4.7 I think and dropped big time because of it. Look where he is now? Having a very nice career in Arizona. Workout warriors don't impress me. A big reason why I don't want no part of Chris Henry from Arizona. Give me a football player anyday.
Brandon Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 That does not suprise me at all with Tony Hunt. When he chose not to run at the combine, with all of the other top RBs choosing to do so, it certainly raised the question of why. Now we know. If all of the other Penn State players improved their times at the Pro Day workouts, then one has to wonder if Hunt's time would have been even slower at the combine.
jri111 Posted March 23, 2007 Author Posted March 23, 2007 Workout warriors don't impress me. A big reason why I don't want no part of Chris Henry from Arizona. Give me a football player anyday. Hey, I'm with you 100%! Like it or not though numbers do help/hurt draft status. What effect does this have on the Bills? Well Puz, who prob. had a slight chance of falling into the second round, def. won't now. Even more so of an effect though would be if we wanted to try to trade back into the lower first to get him. He might not be there now. As for Hunt, this actually might help the Bills. They may be able to get a good RB in a round or two later then they could have because of this. As for me, i trust Levy and Co. They seemed to have found great talent/playmakers in the later rounds (i.e. Kyle Willaims in round 5) last year. I just hope everything falls nicely into place!
Brandon Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Again these pro-days and combines don't show me a darn thing.How does the player perform on the football field when they have all these bodies flying round. Anquon Boldin ran a 4.7 I think and dropped big time because of it. Look where he is now? Having a very nice career in Arizona. Workout warriors don't impress me. A big reason why I don't want no part of Chris Henry from Arizona. Give me a football player anyday. I can't remember for sure, but I don't think Anquan Boldin was completely healthy at the time. He did, however, run a much better time at his Pro Day workout. I think your point about football players vs workout warriors is a partially valid one, but only within reasonable confines. Abnormal times should be considered a sign of a potential problem. Tony Hunt could defy the odds, but there's no question that a 4.7+ 40 time is unusually slow for an NFL RB.
Billsjunkie Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Go look up Emmits 40 time...... http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8480589 Not saying that Tony Hunt is Emmitt by any means. But it does show that this combine stuff is not the tell all story of how a football player will perform. Boldin ran a 4.72 and he didn't have problems. It was just his time. The 40-yard dash is a useful tool in helping talent-evaluators make an educated guess about how a college prospect will perform in the NFL. But by no means is it a sure-fire gauge of a player's athletic ability. Speed is always preferred, although the speed one shows in running a straight line in shorts and a T-shirt isn't always reflective of the speed one will show when a collision is imminent. And there is a difference between being fast and being elusive. And 300-pound linemen rarely find themselves running 40 yards in the course of a game. I will never forget the words of the late John Butler, former general manager of the Buffalo Bills and San Diego Chargers, when asked how much stock he placed in a prospect's 40-yard dash time and overall performance during pre-draft workouts: "I have three words for you: Production! Production! Production!" For Butler, it was what a player produced during a game, not a workout, that carried the most weight .
Brandon Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Boldin had blown out a knee the previous year. I believe he was still having problems with it during the draft process and later managed to post a time in the high 4.5s, but its impossible to prove at this point.
Dwight Drane Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Hunt probably runs just as fast with pads on because he is so powerful. He is a notch below being a franchise back, but he looks like he would be durable and punishing. He would be a very safe pick in the 2nd round....much like Whitner was a safe pick in the 1st. There are guys with more upside, but plenty of guys with more downside.
marauderswr80 Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Bottom line is if the kid can play football and find the endzone......thats enough said.......
stuckincincy Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Bottom line is if the kid can play football and find the endzone......thats enough said....... Yep. If I start on my 20, and my RB gets 0, 5, 4, 3, 6 yards, a 1st down or two, picks up rushers on the passes, then breaks through for 15 yards but gets caught from behind and I am then on the opponent's 30 - I am a very happy head coach.
jri111 Posted March 23, 2007 Author Posted March 23, 2007 A lot of mocks had Puz going to the Giants at 20 (if he lasts that long, i think he can go as high as St. louis at 13), but Al wilson might be going to the G-men to play WLB (http://blog.nj.com/ledgergiants/2007/03/wilson_in_new_york_for_phyisca.html) which obviously means they wouldn't be looking for one in the draft. IF we didn't take Willis with the 12th pick for some reasons (i.e. he's gone, or Petterson fell and we took him, etc...) I would love to use our 2nd and one of the 3rds to try to trade back into the first (somewhere in the mid 20's) to take him if he was still there when the draft got to the 20's. Something like this would be my ideal first day: 1. Petterson (RB) 1a. Puz (OLB) 3. Hughes (CB) EDIT: (I can't get the hyperlink to work so here's what the site says) It's from NJ.com, a blog written by one of the local newspaper sports writers, so take it for what it's worth) Wilson in New York for physical Posted by Mike Garafolo March 23, 2007 1:35PM Categories: Trades Broncos LB Al Wilson is in New York this afternoon for a physical being conducted by Giants team doctors, according to a league source. It's unclear if this means a trade will be finalized today, but it's a pretty good indication the Giants are ahead of any other team interested in acquiring the linebacker. The Denver Post is reporting Wilson's physical means he will be a Giant today. At the very least, the Giants want to take a look at some of Wilson's recent nicks and injuries. He's had a lingering thumb injury and jammed his neck in a game against the Seahawks this past December. If the Giants like what they see in Wilson's physical, they'll probably hit the gas on the trade talks with Denver. Stay tuned.
Billsjunkie Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 How much you guys want to bet that we end up taking Ted Ginn Jr. Seriously. With all this talk about Lynch and Willis on the board. Its not going to happen lol. Look at last year. Talks about Bunkley and Ngata. Nope. We passed on both. This years wild card pick by the Bills: Ted Ginn Jr. Its Peterson with one "t" by the way. Just giving you crap.
Brandon Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 I would not at all be suprised if the Bills selected a WR at 12. I see their need as not being so much for a RB, but for a quality complimentary threat to Lee Evans. That could certainly be a RB, but could also be a WR or TE as well. If its not Lynch, I believe that they'll choose either Dwayne Bowe or Robert Meachem.
stuckincincy Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 How much you guys want to bet that we end up taking Ted Ginn Jr. Seriously. With all this talk about Lynch and Willis on the board. Its not going to happen lol. Look at last year. Talks about Bunkley and Ngata. Nope. We passed on both. This years wild card pick by the Bills: Ted Ginn Jr. Its Peterson with one "t" by the way. Just giving you crap. I can take it. TD's picks have prepared me for anything.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 All those 2 tenths of a second in the 40 mean is that if he breaks one for 50 yards, he MIGHT be caught from behind near the goalline by a foot IF the player chasing him runs a 4.4 or less and started from the exact same spot. That, of course, doesn't take into consideration how fast these guys actually run in pads, their balance, their abilities, their moves, their strength, or their smarts.
Sketch Soland Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 All those 2 tenths of a second in the 40 mean is that if he breaks one for 50 yards, he MIGHT be caught from behind near the goalline by a foot IF the player chasing him runs a 4.4 or less and started from the exact same spot. That, of course, doesn't take into consideration how fast these guys actually run in pads, their balance, their abilities, their moves, their strength, or their smarts. Are you actually saying that random numbers that measure arbitrary statistics don't have very much practical application to how a player performs on the field during a game? No one will believe you!
ThePebble19 Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 All those 2 tenths of a second in the 40 mean is that if he breaks one for 50 yards, he MIGHT be caught from behind near the goalline by a foot IF the player chasing him runs a 4.4 or less and started from the exact same spot. That, of course, doesn't take into consideration how fast these guys actually run in pads, their balance, their abilities, their moves, their strength, or their smarts. Thats the thing though...Hunt is primarily a power back, and if he breaks a big run like you say, he does slow down along the way...I watch him every saturday...He is not getting away from too many NFL DBs... That said, I do like Hunt a lot...And if the Bills are looking to run a RBBC system, he would be a great fit...I am not totally sold on him being a franchise feature back yet.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Are you actually saying that random numbers that measure arbitrary statistics don't have very much practical application to how a player performs on the field during a game? No one will believe you! Speed obviously matters. Times matter to some extent. But just on surface, a 40 time means very little when you are talking about .2 of a second. First off, I have no idea why they time these guys without pads on. That makes no sense. They should be in full pads and the pads inspected before they run. Second, they should be made to run from a football stance. And have to go on a snap count. More importantly, the 10 yard intervals are much more revealing than the 40 time. And the last ten yards tells you almost as much as the first ten yards. When you read a guy runs a 4.4 it's extremely important to know, say, whether his last ten yards he was gaining speed or losing speed. Some of these guys are fast as hell but pucker out at 40 yards. Some of these guys cannot start that fast but have great stamina and are slow in the first 20 but burn in the last 20. So a guy who is a fast finisher and lighter might run a 4.4 but isn't nearly as quick and fast through the line as guy who runs a 4.7. Plus, some of these guys just know how to run track, or prepare to run track. A running back doesn't get to just explode off the line like a sprinter but has to immediately run upright and take and secure the handoff before he starts sprinting. The 40 time shows extremely little about how fast a RB is in a game, and probably exaggerates or gets the speed wrong more than it gets it right. That said, Hunt may be slow as hell.
Sketch Soland Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Speed obviously matters. Times matter to some extent. But just on surface, a 40 time means very little when you are talking about .2 of a second. First off, I have no idea why they time these guys without pads on. That makes no sense. They should be in full pads and the pads inspected before they run. Second, they should be made to run from a football stance. And have to go on a snap count. More importantly, the 10 yard intervals are much more revealing than the 40 time. And the last ten yards tells you almost as much as the first ten yards. When you read a guy runs a 4.4 it's extremely important to know, say, whether his last ten yards he was gaining speed or losing speed. Some of these guys are fast as hell but pucker out at 40 yards. Some of these guys cannot start that fast but have great stamina and are slow in the first 20 but burn in the last 20. So a guy who is a fast finisher and lighter might run a 4.4 but isn't nearly as quick and fast through the line as guy who runs a 4.7. Plus, some of these guys just know how to run track, or prepare to run track. A running back doesn't get to just explode off the line like a sprinter but has to immediately run upright and take and secure the handoff before he starts sprinting. The 40 time shows extremely little about how fast a RB is in a game, and probably exaggerates or gets the speed wrong more than it gets it right. That said, Hunt may be slow as hell. Well said
ThePebble19 Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Speed obviously matters. Times matter to some extent. But just on surface, a 40 time means very little when you are talking about .2 of a second. First off, I have no idea why they time these guys without pads on. That makes no sense. They should be in full pads and the pads inspected before they run. Second, they should be made to run from a football stance. And have to go on a snap count. More importantly, the 10 yard intervals are much more revealing than the 40 time. And the last ten yards tells you almost as much as the first ten yards. When you read a guy runs a 4.4 it's extremely important to know, say, whether his last ten yards he was gaining speed or losing speed. Some of these guys are fast as hell but pucker out at 40 yards. Some of these guys cannot start that fast but have great stamina and are slow in the first 20 but burn in the last 20. So a guy who is a fast finisher and lighter might run a 4.4 but isn't nearly as quick and fast through the line as guy who runs a 4.7. Plus, some of these guys just know how to run track, or prepare to run track. A running back doesn't get to just explode off the line like a sprinter but has to immediately run upright and take and secure the handoff before he starts sprinting. The 40 time shows extremely little about how fast a RB is in a game, and probably exaggerates or gets the speed wrong more than it gets it right. That said, Hunt may be slow as hell. very well said...
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