DrDawkinstein Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 I got to meet Takeo last year doing his rehab down in Atlanta. He worked out at the same gym as me. (Also saw Jamal Lewis and Hines Ward there as well for what its worth) The man was not very positive about the upcoming season, and was very pissed when the Bills took Whitner with the first pick instead of Ngata or Bunkley. While he was working out hard, his attitude about the team in general was pretty poor. I think he is a clubhouse lawyer who is only happy when he has a lot of veterans surrounding him. (gives him that comfort zone) His play last year for the most part was average on good days and god awful on other days. Did you ever remember guys running thru his tackles like they did last year? I won't lose sleep if he gets cut or traded. The national media will roast us if we cut him, but at this point in his career he is just a name. The guy had no lateral movement whatsoever last year. this is how he was in Cinn., and he seems to have carried it over with Buffalo according to every report ive heard. he doesnt seem like much of a leader as far as attitude goes. at this point in that young defense, he almost seems to be the Eric Moulds to our JP Losman on that side of the ball...
obie_wan Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 If he plays well, he's worth the money and we have him next year, too. Otherwise, instead of four major question marks we have five. He's a major question mark now. But he costs $4.5 million to produce at the level of a journeyman vet. Let Crowell take his spot permanently and get a bonafide MLB to play the middle.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 if he provided the leadership and attitude of Fletcher-Baker, then i could see keeping him in spite of production slow down. but considering the first thing he did was publicly call out the new front office after Troy Vincent got cut, i could care less about him personally. he's your perfect definition of a "Donahoe Guy"
Kelly the Dog Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 nice try. The entire $4.5 becomes guaranteed if Spikes is on the opening day roster. You can't take him for a trial run for "a few games" You're right. I forgot that after four years, if you make it to the first game, your contract is guaranteed for the season. Still, they could play him in four pre-season games and get a pretty good idea if he is back.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 He's a major question mark now. But he costs $4.5 million to produce at the level of a journeyman vet. Let Crowell take his spot permanently and get a bonafide MLB to play the middle. I'm not completely against cutting him or trading Spikes. I just think we have several major holes to fill and cutting him makes one more. It's a 50-50 chance to me whether or not he is a pretty good player this coming year. A rookie outside of a 1st round draft pick is probably less chance than that. Yeah, we could take Willis, IF he is available, but I am not completely sold on him especially after watching him closely in the Senior Bowl and seeing him getting rather easily blocked all over the field. I shouldn't base it just on that game but there are other players and positions I would rather fill.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 i agree with Kelly about not wanting another hole to fill. but dont you think that all this comes from him already being a hole to fill? unfortunately, because of the injury and his pay, just having "Takeo Spikes" on the field does not mean we are SET at LB. Frankly, i sorta like the line-up of Ellison/Willis/Crowell over Ellison/Crowell/Spikes, myself.
MattyT Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 To lose the leadership of both London and Takeo this offseason is gonna be HUGE. I'm not saying that this factor makes it the wrong move to get rid of Spikes, but the reality of the situation is that we are going to be losing a ton of leadership and experience on the defensive side of the ball next year. I suppose you can throw Clements in there as well, but not nearly to the same degree. We have an extremely young defense and it's gonna rear its ugly head at some point. The good news is that 1) the young guys we have are very talented and 2) free agency ain't over yet.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 To lose the leadership of both London and Takeo this offseason is gonna be HUGE. I'm not saying that this factor makes it the wrong move to get rid of Spikes, but the reality of the situation is that we are going to be losing a ton of leadership and experience on the defensive side of the ball next year. I suppose you can throw Clements in there as well, but not nearly to the same degree. We have an extremely young defense and it's gonna rear its ugly head at some point. The good news is that 1) the young guys we have are very talented and 2) free agency ain't over yet. yeah, but we're losing the leadership that lead us to how many playoff appearances? not to short change our past good players. but i think its time that Marv wants to bring in his OWN leaders, who lead like he wants them too. like Whitner.
ORLANDOBILLSFAN Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 This whole Spikes thing has gotten messy. Trade or no trade, I say you cut him. It's gotten too ugly to fix. If we could get him to restructure, that would be cool. What are his choices anyways? Whose going to trade for him? What would they give? There's too much risk. He wouldn't get more than a 1 year deal and probably nowhere near what he is due from Buffalo this year.
bills_fan Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 Or do we offer Spikes & our 2nd rounder to Chicago for Briggs. Take Poz with our 1st (after dealing down, picking up another pick, say late 2nd) and have a LB trio of Crowell/Briggs/Pozlusny? RB and DT in the 2nd, CB and FB Leonard in the 3rd? Just guessin here?
Bills Fan888 Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 I saw a post like this before. I fell Spikes is like a little Eric Moulds in the locker room. I don't want him on this team anymore. I don't care what happens. I just hope we get something for him.
stuckincincy Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 this is how he was in Cinn., and he seems to have carried it over with Buffalo according to every report ive heard. he doesnt seem like much of a leader as far as attitude goes. at this point in that young defense, he almost seems to be the Eric Moulds to our JP Losman on that side of the ball... I moved here in 1990. I'm assuming you don't live in this area. Don't spew nonsense. Spikes was a tremendous athlete, a fine competitor. He left CIN to go to the Bills because he was thoroughly disgusted with the Cincinnati organization at that time. And he was 100% right. The new HC Lewis tried mightily to get him to stay. The B'gals took on several free agents and drafted 4 linebackers in two years after he left to try to fill TKO's shoes...
Mike in Syracuse Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 That's just stupid. He got hurt working his ass off and always played as hard as he could. It wasn't his fault. There are just as many players in the league who get paid too little for their production as get paid too much. Should teams retro-pay players for previous seasons where they were underpaid but over-produced? Kelly, Your position with regard to Spikes is noble but highly unrealistic. Spikes was brought in at a large cost to do a job. Due to injury he's no longer able to do that job and therefore won't be compensated at the same rate. It's not fair, it's not nice but it's just a reality of the life of a player in the NFL. The players all know that it's business and it's about production. They also know that their career can end with a single injury. In many respects, it's not much different that what happened to Sam Cowart
bartshan-83 Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 I like all the doctors in this thread who somehow know that Spikes cannot return to form before next season. Ask Julian Peterson how his Achilles feels. You can write to him at: 2007 NFC Pro Bowl Starting OLB Honolulu, HI I'd hope that the Bills give Spikes a chance to show what he can do now that he he will be almost 2 years removed from the injury on opening day. If the team doctors and coaches think he doesn't have it anymore, then so be it. But I really hope they don't jump the gun and deliver another team a future Pro-Bowler for mere pennies.
Mike formerly from Florida Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 I got to meet Takeo last year doing his rehab down in Atlanta. He worked out at the same gym as me. (Also saw Jamal Lewis and Hines Ward there as well for what its worth) The man was not very positive about the upcoming season, and was very pissed when the Bills took Whitner with the first pick instead of Ngata or Bunkley. While he was working out hard, his attitude about the team in general was pretty poor. I think he is a clubhouse lawyer who is only happy when he has a lot of veterans surrounding him. (gives him that comfort zone) His play last year for the most part was average on good days and god awful on other days. Did you ever remember guys running thru his tackles like they did last year? I won't lose sleep if he gets cut or traded. The national media will roast us if we cut him, but at this point in his career he is just a name. The guy had no lateral movement whatsoever last year. Yeah, although I agree with the poster above who said it is a two year injury and we should see him out one more year, I think this situation is clearly about his attitude and locker-room lawyering. Marv may think he will hurt the team's chemistry. The money is large, but it may be a smokescreen for what they really want to do...get rid of his tainted attitude. If we can get a fourth or even a fifth, plus we can get another player because of the freed up cash it will be worth it in the eyes of the Bills. So, don't look at releasing him for a low pick as a bad trade if we can grab someone in free agency for the money his release saves us.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 If the Bills Do get rid of TKO I HOPE HE GOES TO TAMPA!
DrDawkinstein Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 I moved here in 1990. I'm assuming you don't live in this area. Don't spew nonsense. Spikes was a tremendous athlete, a fine competitor. He left CIN to go to the Bills because he was thoroughly disgusted with the Cincinnati organization at that time. And he was 100% right. The new HC Lewis tried mightily to get him to stay. The B'gals took on several free agents and drafted 4 linebackers in two years after he left to try to fill TKO's shoes... maybe he was right. but maybe some of that stuck with him, and he is the one that has a funk stuck to him... as far as i remember, i read a lot of talking by him about being gald to be out of Cinn, and the way it was run. and maybe he is right. but its VERY unprofessional to come out publicly with those statements. i have a former employer that i hate, and that are a bunch of rats, and that salesmen ask me about everyday, and i dont even say bad things about them privately. its just not worth it. I like all the doctors in this thread who somehow know that Spikes cannot return to form before next season. Ask Julian Peterson how his Achilles feels. You can write to him at: 2007 NFC Pro Bowl Starting OLB Honolulu, HI I'd hope that the Bills give Spikes a chance to show what he can do now that he he will be almost 2 years removed from the injury on opening day. If the team doctors and coaches think he doesn't have it anymore, then so be it. But I really hope they don't jump the gun and deliver another team a future Pro-Bowler for mere pennies. dude, ive seen you respond to this in other threads and THE ONLY player you can name is Peterson. basically, you have ONE guy that you can say came back from that injury. there are plenty of others who havent. yes, its POSSIBLE that Spikes comes back, anything is possible, and i hope he does. im all for giving him a chance to prove that he can. but enough of the Peterson talk. thats just one guy.
Navy Chief Navy Pride Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 Kelly, Your position with regard to Spikes is noble but highly unrealistic. Spikes was brought in at a large cost to do a job. Due to injury he's no longer able to do that job and therefore won't be compensated at the same rate. It's not fair, it's not nice but it's just a reality of the life of a player in the NFL. The players all know that it's business and it's about production. They also know that their career can end with a single injury. In many respects, it's not much different that what happened to Sam Cowart I think the players and fans alike all know its a buisness. And they definitly know that on any given play their respective career can be over. Thus we get the I am only making 5 mil this year.....I am an elite player.....I need 8 mil a year.....I gotta feed my family. What size family cannot eat on 5 mil per year? Maybe Willis's in a year or so. I think I got off the point but oh well...I vented
bartshan-83 Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 dude, ive seen you respond to this in other threads and THE ONLY player you can name is Peterson. basically, you have ONE guy that you can say came back from that injury. there are plenty of others who havent. yes, its POSSIBLE that Spikes comes back, anything is possible, and i hope he does. im all for giving him a chance to prove that he can. but enough of the Peterson talk. thats just one guy. First, I've never once posted Julian Peterson's name on this board, so you're thinking of someone else. Second, Peterson is just one example. But he is about as close to our case as you can get. OLB, widely considered one of the best in the game before his injury. Unimpressive in his first year back after injury. Team lets him go. Goes on to be a Pro-Bowler. I'd love to give a bunch of examples of those who didn't make it, but I don't know who the "plenty of others who havent" made it back are. I'd be interested in some examples. I simply believe that if anyone can make it back, it's a guy like Spikes who has intensity, passion and dedication beyond what is often seen among his peers.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 hmm, maybe it wasnt you... and the bright green cups are confusing me. regardless, anytime anyone says Peterson, we can all say Cowart and it goes from there.
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