Are the Democrates Proud of This?

[The Big Cat]

You don't actually understand the difference between "public health" and "universal health care", do you?

 

I mentioned neither, only nationalized, but do enlighten me please.

[erynthered]

yeah I guess.

 

Yeah, you guess? You'll find plenty of information out there for you to have a better answer than that. I think you'll find after doing some research on this, thats its not a good idea. Good Luck.

 

 

 

you do realize that making money in this country and not paying taxes is...illegal?

 

Not necessarily

[Alaska Darin]

hahaha okay now I understand everything but the IRS, DMV and Walter Reed parts...

 

in regards to people who do and don't pay taxes: of that 40%, how many pay NO taxes and how many pay SMALL taxes? There's a big difference. Also, is that 40% of Americans or 40% of American adults? And does that 40% also include the retired and the unemployed..?

 

I only ask because it seems like a large and problematic figure for reasons beyond health care.

The bottom 50% of ALL American taxpayers pay 3.3% of income tax collected. They earn 13.3% of the income.

[The Big Cat]

Yeah, you guess? You'll find plenty of information out there for you to have a better answer than that. I think you'll find after doing some research on this, thats its not a good idea. Good Luck.

Not necessarily

 

okay, man but you're comparing a world that does exist with one that doesn't.

[Bungee Jumper]

I mentioned neither, only nationalized, but do enlighten me please.

 

No, enlighten me: what do you mean by "nationalized" health care?

 

There's far too many different terms being thrown about in this discussion that probably mean the same thing.

[erynthered]

okay, man but you're comparing a world that does exist with one that doesn't.

 

Again, not necessarily. Re-read Darin's posts. Then think of a few analogies, for yourself, and how they apply. Darin covers it better than I could/did.

[The Big Cat]

Again, not necessarily. Re-read Darrin's posts. Then think of a few analogies, for yourself, and how they apply. Darin covers it better than I could/did.

 

I meant a world where people are getting free health care from the taxes their not paying. sorry for the confusion.

 

regarding darin's post...wouldn't there be factors that contribute to those numbers like marriage and children.

 

and darin's post also only mentions tax payers, not free loaders. (you know who you are)

[Alaska Darin]

regarding darin's post...wouldn't there be factors that contribute to those numbers like marriage and children.

There are always factors. Trying looking at health care with an eye on Public Education. We spend more per student than ANY industrialized nation in the world but the results aren't pretty. It's not a money thing. Shoot, we spend TWELVE PERCENT of every healthcare dollar on Type II Diabetes. TWELVE PERCENT!

 

The same will be true with "Nationalized" health care. The rich will continue to receive care and the poor will still be left behind. The only difference will be the system will cost even more than it does today, with an enormous bureaucracy on top of all of it. Can't you just see it now? "No Patient Left Behind".

[The Big Cat]

There are always factors. Trying looking at health care with an eye on Public Education. We spend more per student than ANY industrialized nation in the world but the results aren't pretty. It's not a money thing. Shoot, we spend TWELVE PERCENT of every healthcare dollar on Type II Diabetes. TWELVE PERCENT!

 

The same will be true with "Nationalized" health care. The rich will continue to receive care and the poor will still be left behind. The only difference will be the system will cost even more than it does today, with an enormous bureaucracy on top of all of it. Can't you just see it now? "No Patient Left Behind".

 

okay!

 

so you'd agree that with a revamped and more efficient/effective nationalized tax/education/health care system it could be done!!

 

I follow my politics like I follow my Bills- with unbounded optimism!!

[Bungee Jumper]

I meant a world where people are getting free health care from the taxes their not paying. sorry for the confusion.

 

 

That didn't help the confusion much. You mean, you envision a health care system in which the federal government pays for the individual health care of those who don't pay taxes using the taxes from those who do?

 

Isn't that basically Medicade writ large?

[RI Bills Fan]

The bottom 50% of ALL American taxpayers pay 3.3% of income tax collected. They earn 13.3% of the income.

 

If those figures are accurate, and I have no idea whether they are or not, then this country is well on it's way to third world status.

 

So we might as well implement universal health care, it won't make any difference.

 

The top 50% of American Taxpayers, the one's who earn 86.7% of the income in this country and pay 96.7% of the taxes, obviously have such a different standard of living than the bottom 50% that they'll never notice the difference.

[Chilly]

Ah, yes, the brokes vision of the world: Anything being even remotely considered 'unpatriotic' by their view is 'Democrateic' by default

[VRWC]

WTF does this rally have to do with the Democratic party, or "Democrates"?

 

Sure, this out-of-context photo is bad. These idiots have the freedom to do this, just as the idiots in the KKK can have a rally. Note that they also won't show their faces, which says to me that it's just as possible that these guys are plants by the opposition to make a peaceful rally look bad -- and I have seen this happen before. But does the rest of what's going on there strike you as un-American? American flags waving -- not burning, people gathering peacefully, speaking their minds, sharing ideas? They may not be the ideas you agree with, and they may not even be that well thought-out. I don't know. I wasn't there. But if you look at all those photos, that's America in practice, in its ugliness and at its best all at once.

 

 

out-of-context photo? What is so out-of-context? Looks pretty plain to me what's happening

plants by the opposition? There's an answer. Lift up the "terrorists" masks and I bet it was Carl Rove and Dick Cheney under them.

I have seen this happen before? Oh really? Do you have any evidence of this or was it some dream you had?

what's going on there strike you as un-American? Burning flags, buring out troops, calling our President a lier - No their American all right and proud of it.

 

 

This has everything to do with Liberals and Democrats.

 

Look at the slogans in the photos:

Bush Lied, Americans died.

When Bush was elected to serve, he threw us a curve.

Impeach Bush

No Gods, Country, Masters

Cheney Skies in Jeans??

Stop Israeli Apartide

 

I’ll bet you not one conservative Republican was in that crowd protesting. It’s amazing how liberals and democrats justify there actions by citing their first amendment to do so. It’s not the act of protest I detest, it’s the message I detest. Just as they have the right protest, I have the right to criticize their acts, silly stunts and freakish behavior. Just because you have the rights to say something doesn’t mean you have the right not to be criticized.

 

Those photos show utter contempt and disregard for our troops, our president and our country’s war effort. Do you really think these protesters want to “Protect” our troops? They hate out troops and all things military. The funny thing is, if it wasn’t for our military, they wouldn’t be able to say what their saying now. Ironic don’t you think?

 

Our troops serve the American people to protect us under the President that was elected and a congress that authorized this war effort.

 

I bet these where the same folks that wanted Bush impeached after 9-11 because he didn’t stop it. They are the blame America for everything crowd, and give peace a change BS. Well, Clinton did give peace a chance for 8 years and looked what happened. It certainly didn’t stop the terrorists from trying to kill us for 20 years.

 

I have one question for you libs. If this effigy was a Muslim burning, would their not be a major news story on the MSM claiming these people are hate mongers and be labeled racists? Burn the troops effigy --> your OK (1st Amend right, burn a Muslim effigy - >your evil and need to go into rehab)

[MattyT]

out-of-context photo? What is so out-of-context? Looks pretty plain to me what's happening

plants by the opposition? There's an answer. Lift up the "terrorists" masks and I bet it was Carl Rove and Dick Cheney under them.

I have seen this happen before? Oh really? Do you have any evidence of this or was it some dream you had?

what's going on there strike you as un-American? Burning flags, buring out troops, calling our President a lier - No their American all right and proud of it.

This has everything to do with Liberals and Democrats.

 

Look at the slogans in the photos:

Bush Lied, Americans died.

When Bush was elected to serve, he threw us a curve.

Impeach Bush

No Gods, Country, Masters

Cheney Skies in Jeans??

Stop Israeli Apartide

 

I’ll bet you not one conservative Republican was in that crowd protesting. It’s amazing how liberals and democrats justify there actions by citing their first amendment to do so. It’s not the act of protest I detest, it’s the message I detest. Just as they have the right protest, I have the right to criticize their acts, silly stunts and freakish behavior. Just because you have the rights to say something doesn’t mean you have the right not to be criticized.

 

Those photos show utter contempt and disregard for our troops, our president and our country’s war effort. Do you really think these protesters want to “Protect” our troops? They hate out troops and all things military. The funny thing is, if it wasn’t for our military, they wouldn’t be able to say what their saying now. Ironic don’t you think?

 

Our troops serve the American people to protect us under the President that was elected and a congress that authorized this war effort.

 

I bet these where the same folks that wanted Bush impeached after 9-11 because he didn’t stop it. They are the blame America for everything crowd, and give peace a change BS. Well, Clinton did give peace a chance for 8 years and looked what happened. It certainly didn’t stop the terrorists from trying to kill us for 20 years.

 

I have one question for you libs. If this effigy was a Muslim burning, would their not be a major news story on the MSM claiming these people are hate mongers and be labeled racists? Burn the troops effigy --> your OK (1st Amend right, burn a Muslim effigy - >your evil and need to go into rehab)

Dude, your blood pressure must be off the friggin charts. I feel bad for you....seriously.

[Chilly]

This has everything to do with Liberals and Democrats.

 

Look at the slogans in the photos:

Bush Lied, Americans died.

When Bush was elected to serve, he threw us a curve.

Impeach Bush

No Gods, Country, Masters

Cheney Skies in Jeans??

Stop Israeli Apartide

 

Funny, I didn't know a slogan automatically made you part of the Democratic party.

 

I’ll bet you not one conservative Republican was in that crowd protesting.

Your inducive reasoning skills are impeccable.

 

It’s amazing how liberals and democrats justify there actions by citing their first amendment to do so.

 

Wait, I didn't know the people involved here were posting their justifications on the internet. Care to link?

 

It’s not the act of protest I detest, it’s the message I detest.

Thats not what the subtitle of your thread would indicate.

 

Just as they have the right protest, I have the right to criticize their acts, silly stunts and freakish behavior. Just because you have the rights to say something doesn’t mean you have the right not to be criticized.

 

And you have the right to assume.

 

Those photos show utter contempt and disregard for our troops, our president and our country’s war effort. Do you really think these protesters want to “Protect” our troops? They hate out troops and all things military. The funny thing is, if it wasn’t for our military, they wouldn’t be able to say what their saying now. Ironic don’t you think?

 

...

 

I bet these where the same folks that wanted Bush impeached after 9-11 because he didn’t stop it. They are the blame America for everything crowd, and give peace a change BS. Well, Clinton did give peace a chance for 8 years and looked what happened. It certainly didn’t stop the terrorists from trying to kill us for 20 years.

Again, wheres that link of them talking on the internet and explaining their actions, rather than everyone here assuming that what they are doing fits into their view of the world?

 

 

I have one question for you libs. If this effigy was a Muslim burning, would their not be a major news story on the MSM claiming these people are hate mongers and be labeled racists? Burn the troops effigy --> your OK (1st Amend right, burn a Muslim effigy - >your evil and need to go into rehab)

 

Um, no, there wouldn't be a major news story unless they could make a story out of it that would garner publicity and readership.

 

Now, if this happened and Muslims got pissed, or the MSM was able to create a conflict between Muslims and Americans, then yeah, it'd probably hit the MSM.

[RuntheDamnBall]

out-of-context photo? What is so out-of-context? Looks pretty plain to me what's happening

The rest of the context is the relatively peaceful rally. Also note that the photographer chose those photos, of all of them, to say, "I do not agree with this."

plants by the opposition? There's an answer. Lift up the "terrorists" masks and I bet it was Carl Rove and Dick Cheney under them.

I have seen this happen before? Oh really? Do you have any evidence of this or was it some dream you had?

It was right here in NYC. Yes, they were carrying signs for a particular group that has been identified as carrying out these sorts of 'missions' to make otherwise peaceful rallies look bad.

what's going on there strike you as un-American? Burning flags, buring out troops, calling our President a lier - No their American all right and proud of it.

This has everything to do with Liberals and Democrats.

There are anarchists and more at this rally. Sure, some probably are Democrats but this is not a sanctioned Democratic party event. You know, people can actually act outside the boundaries of a political party. Besideswhich, Democrats are generally far too benign and middling to cater to these people, believe it or not (and I know you won't in your RichIO-like lunacy). And I was referring to the photos aside from the effigy photos, anyway. Also, most Presidents are liars. I know it would burst your bubble to have the thought challenged that Bush is practically perfect in every way.

Look at the slogans in the photos:

Bush Lied, Americans died.

When Bush was elected to serve, he threw us a curve.

Impeach Bush

No Gods, Country, Masters

Cheney Skies in Jeans??

Stop Israeli Apartide

 

I’ll bet you not one conservative Republican was in that crowd protesting. It’s amazing how liberals and democrats justify there actions by citing their first amendment to do so. It’s not the act of protest I detest, it’s the message I detest. Just as they have the right protest, I have the right to criticize their acts, silly stunts and freakish behavior. Just because you have the rights to say something doesn’t mean you have the right not to be criticized.

You're right. And I have the right to criticize your claim that these people are 'abusing' a right. You can't abuse a right. You can exercise it, or you can go beyond that right to break a law and be punished for it. There's little grey area. People said the same damn sh-- about Clinton and I'm sure you were whistling along. People were doing the same damn stunts in 2000, in 1998, and before, with a Democrat in office -- it just didn't have wartime currency or instant YouTube publicity. If you want people to be punished for this expression of thought, then you're one step away from ThoughtCrime and Gestapo Living. That's not the America the rest of us signed up for.

Those photos show utter contempt blah blah blah blah libs hate America etc etc etc troops = good blah blah blah

 

I have one question for you libs. If this effigy was a Muslim burning, would their not be a major news story on the MSM claiming these people are hate mongers and be labeled racists? Burn the troops effigy --> your OK (1st Amend right, burn a Muslim effigy - >your evil and need to go into rehab)

I said the effigy goons were idiots, did I not?

 

Your soundbites and platitudes are tired, well-rehearsed, and meaningless. Richio is back, folks.

[VRWC]

There are anarchists and more at this rally. Sure, some probably are Democrats but this is not a sanctioned Democratic party event. You know, people can actually act outside the boundaries of a political party. Besideswhich, Democrats are generally far too benign and middling to cater to these people, believe it or not (and I know you won't in your RichIO-like lunacy). And I was referring to the photos aside from the effigy photos, anyway. Also, most Presidents are liars. I know it would burst your bubble to have the thought challenged that Bush is practically perfect in every way.

 

You're right. And I have the right to criticize your claim that these people are 'abusing' a right. You can't abuse a right. You can exercise it, or you can go beyond that right to break a law and be punished for it. There's little grey area. People said the same damn sh-- about Clinton and I'm sure you were whistling along. People were doing the same damn stunts in 2000, in 1998, and before, with a Democrat in office -- it just didn't have wartime currency or instant YouTube publicity. If you want people to be punished for this expression of thought, then you're one step away from ThoughtCrime and Gestapo Living. That's not the America the rest of us signed up for.

 

I said the effigy goons were idiots, did I not?

 

Your soundbites and platitudes are tired, well-rehearsed, and meaningless. Richio is back, folks.

 

So all those people are anarchists and some are Democrats. I'll buy that.

 

I never said the Democratic Party sanctioned this event, I guess you assumed that. I said I think most in attendance where democrats, in which case I'm probably right. It's also important to know that many events and rallies held in the past 60 years in this country similar to this one are sponsored and funded by Anti-American groups. Read some history about how the communists infiltrated and funded many of the labor rifts and nuclear protests from the 40's thru the 80's. I'm not saying this one was, but you have to follow the money and other interests to get to the bottom of things.

 

Your right! The Democrats are a benign group. They don't hold rallies or align themselves with left wing radicals what was I thinking? Moore, Sheehan, etc.

 

So we both agree we can criticize one another, good, we're getting along now.

 

A "right" can be abused but I'll save that for another time.

 

Clinton was a liar and got caught. Bush lied and troops died. If that's the case, then impeach Bush and the whole House and Senate members while you’re at it.

 

I didn't see any troop effigy’s being burning when Clinton was President. If Republicans where doing that, I would be ashamed and disgraced. You can protest the actions of the President but once you get personal; your credibility goes out the window. I never like Clinton, but he was MY President and I was pulling for him 100% to succeed. His success was our countries success and mine. Today, the Dems want to tear down this President and all he stands for just to return back to power. That makes me very sad and angry as everyone can see. On a good note, I just had my physical and my BP is just fine.

 

Did I say that I wanted these people punished? I don’t think so. The only punishment they will receive will be judgement day.

 

Did you sign up to be an American? Welcome aboard! I was born here and it’s the greatest country on earth. We can have these talks and not get locked up by our government like in some countries.

 

Thanks for agreeing the goons burning the effigy were idiots. See we can get along after all. GO BILLS AND SABRES!!

[molson_golden2002]

OK, how would you propose it be done then?

Well, that is a fair question. While the "Molson Plan for health care" is still in committee, I would just toss out a few ideas. Since this plan would provide for the least able among us to buy health care, I see no problem with a fast food tax. An extra two or three cents a big mac won't kill anyone. And since the drive thru creates more pollution, add an extra penny on each trasaction there.

 

I do not know how I would address the problem of the diabetic who only eats potato chips and drinks mountain dew. Is it ethical to cut off someone's care who will not take care of themselves? I say yes, but I'm sure others would not agree.

 

What Spitzer is doing here in New York is interesting. He is pulling money out of the big hospitals and funding more, smaller clinics to, I guess, stress prevention to save costs. I will be interested to see how that goes if it passes.

 

Of course, the flood of poor people into hospitals will lengthen the time it takes for everyone else to get procedures taken care of. I don't know if I like that too much

[Chilly]

I said I think most in attendance where democrats, in which case I'm probably right. It's also important to know that many events and rallies held in the past 60 years in this country similar to this one are sponsored and funded by Anti-American groups.

 

Re-read that. You managed to contradict yourself in two sentences. Impressive.

[VRWC]

Re-read that. You managed to contradict yourself in two sentences. Impressive.

 

Come again.

 

Oh I see now how I got it wrong. I'm sorry, looking at the photos again it certainly looks like a bunch of stuffy, rich republicans bashing the troops and the President. The organizers of this event must have come directly from the Pro-American organization called what? the Heritage Foundation. That's it, I think I got it right now. Now all you the libs can now go to bed and hope and hope and hope that we wake up in a better, more peaceful world with no wars, no disagreements, no terrorists, with understanding and sharing of ideas and cultures.

 

WAKE UP IT'S MORNING. THE DEMS HAVE THE HOUSE AND SENATE AND THEY STILL CAN'T STOP THE TERRORISTS OR THE WAR. THEY PROMISED US THEY COULD, WHY PELIOSI WHY