LAMP - Professional advice

[/dev/null]

A managerial position should be coming open soon where I work. There is going to be a big reorganization shifting all the Lumburgh and "The Bob's" type people around. One of the lower level managers is getting bumped up to a Lumburgh type, opening their current position.

 

Right now I'm more or less a lead/senior tech and that manager's position is the next step up. Thing is it's not really a technical position. And I'm a very technical person (just look at my name). That said, I've been working long enough now to realize that management is where the real career advancement happens

 

I'm wondering if I should go for it. I'm not sure if I'd get it, there's 2 other candidates (I think one of the other guys will get it, that guy thinks I'll get it, and the 3rd guy thinks it should be himself). And speaking of the others I work with, I know that if I was offered and I accepted this position it would change my relationship with them

 

Anyone have experience moving from a production type position to a managerial one? Any advice, horror stories, nuggets of wisdom, encouragement, discouragement, or statistical probabilities involving 3.5?

[DrDawkinstein]

if youre really a more technical guy, then management is NOT where career advancement happens. thats where is ends.

[stevewin]

I think part of it is dependent somewhat on where you work and the perception and job requirements of management. You mention it is the next stage of advancement - in my company (in theory) there are technical and non-technical carreer paths which exist in parallel.

 

I have been an engineer for 20 years - my wife went from a technical job to management about 12 years ago. I think some people want to get into management thinking they will have more "power" or "prestige", but at least where I work I wouldn't consider it a glamorous position - there can be a lot of mundane and unpleasant responsibilities associated with it. I've seen my wife have to fire people, lay people off, tell people they aren't getting a bonus or a raise, fight like hell for people to get some bonus or raise only to have them get pissed at her because they thought it wasn't enough, mind-numbing budget cycles, assessments (again with people getting all pissed because they thought they should be rated higher - even again if she has fought like hell to get them even that rating) etc etc. Then having to listen to people B word about company policies, people they work with, the color of the carpet in the hall and on and on and on. The 1st line manager can really be the dumping ground for everyone's dissatisfaction, even though their hands are tied so many times and things are edicted and out of the 1st line's control.

 

No doubt there are positive sides to it - my wife really thrives off 'people managment' - to the extent that she can do it. I've been approached a few times in my career about going the management route - but I personally am perfectly content plugging along on the technical side. I think a lot depends on what the role really is for the manager at your company - and how 'ready' you are to move on from the 'technical' side - as well as determining what any long-term benefits might be to switch over. I would try to talk more to managers in similar positions in your company about their job.

[KD in CA]

And speaking of the others I work with, I know that if I was offered and I accepted this position it would change my relationship with them

 

Can't worry about that for one second. If people resent you for having success, they aren't friends and f*&k 'em. You have nothing to lose by trying for it and possibly a lot to gain. Even if you don't get it you show that you care about advancing your career.

 

 

if youre really a more technical guy, then management is NOT where career advancement happens. thats where is ends.

 

I disagree. He's more of a technical guy cause that's what he's been doing his whole career. Management skills have to be learned like anything else. No reason to shun a possible advancement just because he hasn't done it before.

[The Dean]

A managerial position should be coming open soon where I work. There is going to be a big reorganization shifting all the Lumburgh and "The Bob's" type people around. One of the lower level managers is getting bumped up to a Lumburgh type, opening their current position.

 

Right now I'm more or less a lead/senior tech and that manager's position is the next step up. Thing is it's not really a technical position. And I'm a very technical person (just look at my name). That said, I've been working long enough now to realize that management is where the real career advancement happens

 

I'm wondering if I should go for it. I'm not sure if I'd get it, there's 2 other candidates (I think one of the other guys will get it, that guy thinks I'll get it, and the 3rd guy thinks it should be himself). And speaking of the others I work with, I know that if I was offered and I accepted this position it would change my relationship with them

 

Anyone have experience moving from a production type position to a managerial one? Any advice, horror stories, nuggets of wisdom, encouragement, discouragement, or statistical probabilities involving 3.5?

 

"I know he can get the job. But can he do the job? Harry. Yeah, Harry. But can he do the job? I know he can get the job. But can he do the job? I'm not arguing that with you. I'm not arguing that with you. I'm not arguing that with you. I'm not arguing that with you' Harry! Harry, Harry. Yeah, Harry, but can he do the job? I know he can get the job. But can he do the job? I'm not arguing that with you. Harry, I am not arguing that with you! Who said that? I didn't say that. If I said that, I would have been wrong. Maybe. Maybe. I'm not arguing that with you! Yeah, Harry, I know he can get the job. But can he do the job? I'm not arguing that with you! I am not arguing that with you! I am not arguing that with you!"

 

Replace "he" with "you"

[Fezmid]

Can't worry about that for one second. If people resent you for having success, they aren't friends and f*&k 'em. You have nothing to lose by trying for it and possibly a lot to gain. Even if you don't get it you show that you care about advancing your career.

I don't know about that. At my last place, there were three UNIX admins, and each of us was offered the "team lead" position. All three of us were friends, hanging out from time to time, very social, etc. When I was offered the position, my first question was, "If I don't like it or it doesn't fit, can I go back to my technical position?" I was told no, so I turned the job down because I felt it'd be weird being the boss of the other two guys. Turns out they both said pretty much the same thing....

 

Of course it turned out for the best, since the guy they hired to be the "team lead" instead became the Windows/UNIX manager - and that's a position I had no interest in. Then again, I couldn't have done any worse than this guy did.... He managed to chase off all three UNIX guys (and all three of us were rock stars.... The replacements pale in comparison), and something like 8 of the 11 Windows guys. Shortly after I left, they "demoted" him to "Sr. Architect" and when asked what his job was, he said, "I have no idea." Talked to some people at my new shop who all pretty much hate the guy too, so it wasn't an isolated incident. Oh well

 

If you're really not convinced that you want to go the management route, I wouldn't apply. If you're on the fence though, go for it and at least find out more about it. You can always turn them down after the interview (assuming there would be an interview process, right?)

 

CW

[DC Tom]

A managerial position should be coming open soon where I work. There is going to be a big reorganization shifting all the Lumburgh and "The Bob's" type people around. One of the lower level managers is getting bumped up to a Lumburgh type, opening their current position.

 

Right now I'm more or less a lead/senior tech and that manager's position is the next step up. Thing is it's not really a technical position. And I'm a very technical person (just look at my name). That said, I've been working long enough now to realize that management is where the real career advancement happens

 

One thing I've learned is that enjoying what you're doing is ultimately more fulfilling than trying to get a leg up. And "advancement" isn't always moving up in the food chain - in my current job, people come to me for advice on damn near everything, from business development to MS Word fonts, because I disregard nonsense, cut to the heart of a problem, and provide a viable solution in very short order. That - being recognized as someone who can provide results in any domain - is all the advancement I want or need.

 

I'm wondering if I should go for it. I'm not sure if I'd get it, there's 2 other candidates (I think one of the other guys will get it, that guy thinks I'll get it, and the 3rd guy thinks it should be himself). And speaking of the others I work with, I know that if I was offered and I accepted this position it would change my relationship with them

Co-workers aren't friends, they're co-workers. Doesn't mean you can't be friendly with them...I routinely go out with my coworkers for drinks or poker or shoot some pool or what have you, and enjoy their company (and they even enjoy mine, surprisingly)...but they know even less about my life than you people here. But don't confuse the two.

 

And if you're that worried about changing your relationship with your coworkers...you're probably not management material, frankly. To be brutally honest, a manager who worries about being friends with his managees is probably not spending enough time managing them. Worst managers I've ever had have tried to be my friend first. The best (including but not limited to my current manager) are friendly...but not my friend, and are perfectly willing to give me a good, swift kick in the ass when I need it without worrying about our "relationship".

 

Anyone have experience moving from a production type position to a managerial one? Any advice, horror stories, nuggets of wisdom, encouragement, discouragement, or statistical probabilities involving 3.5?

 

I predict that all the advice you might receive in this thread will be worthless, including mine. The only way to know if you want to be a manager or not is to try it.

[IDBillzFan]

That said, I've been working long enough now to realize that management is where the real career advancement happens.

When you've really been working long enough, you'll realize that the real career advancement happens when you start your own gig.

 

I know that if I was offered and I accepted this position it would change my relationship with them

I keep a few quotes taped to the bottom of my monitor, and one of them I've had for a number of years from Lou Holtz. His comment: "To me, it is all right for people not to like you so long as it is for the right reason. And the proper reason that people don't like you is you are too successful."

If people have a problem with you moving up the chain, they're people your best served to view in the rear view mirror.

[mcjeff215]

A managerial position should be coming open soon where I work. There is going to be a big reorganization shifting all the Lumburgh and "The Bob's" type people around. One of the lower level managers is getting bumped up to a Lumburgh type, opening their current position.

 

Right now I'm more or less a lead/senior tech and that manager's position is the next step up. Thing is it's not really a technical position. And I'm a very technical person (just look at my name). That said, I've been working long enough now to realize that management is where the real career advancement happens

 

I'm wondering if I should go for it. I'm not sure if I'd get it, there's 2 other candidates (I think one of the other guys will get it, that guy thinks I'll get it, and the 3rd guy thinks it should be himself). And speaking of the others I work with, I know that if I was offered and I accepted this position it would change my relationship with them

 

Anyone have experience moving from a production type position to a managerial one? Any advice, horror stories, nuggets of wisdom, encouragement, discouragement, or statistical probabilities involving 3.5?

 

 

If you take this job, how supportive will your new boss be with it? Clearly it's your first step into management and you'll probably need some constructive guidance and help along the way. Will your new boss see that as weakness or as a necessary part of *his* job? If you've a true opportunity to grow and learn from it then it's probably a good thing. The business experience will help you greatly. If you're going to be stuck in a managerial chair with no life preserver and blamed for all that goes wrong your first week (and things will go wrong) stick where you are.

 

I've seen both sides over the past few months. We've had a guy promoted up to QA manager here. Honestly, I thought he'd fail at it. However, that department director has a lot of experience doing what she does, ex-IBM management. She's worked wonders for him and he's turned into a very effective and productive individual. She's sees his success as her job. She rolled the dice on bringing him up and if he does a poor job, then she's made a poor decision.

 

On the flip side, there's been a position open in the NOC for the past couple of months now that two internal candidates have turned down due to that director's reputation.

 

I'd personally take it. I'm getting quite sick of bit shifting, class diagrams, and unit test frameworks. I'm 100% ready for something else myself.

 

As someone else said, if you're worried about hurting a co-worker's feelings, then perhaps you'd better stay technical. I mean no offense, but you WILL fire people, you WILL lay people off, you WILL withhold merit increases and annual bonuses. It will be you making the decision as to who gets 2% and who gets 15%. You'll probably also be privy to company financials you wouldn't otherwise know, depending on your status; so you may have the added weight of "needing to keep your mouth shut." That holds especially true if you're a publicly traded company.

 

It's matter of personal preference. I like the technical work, but I can't honestly see myself writing code in 20 years. I want that big fluffy corner office and the corresponding title. You know, the job where I'm paid to count my money.

 

-Jeff

[X. Benedict]

In my experience work relationships are always in flux, so change is inevitable.

Change may come slow or fast - but they will change.

 

I never think it hurts to put your hat in the ring. Do the interview - and get them to honestly evaluate your value to the company.

[Dwight Drane]

I think you risk getting labeled as "just a tech guy" if you pass on this. There is nothing wrong with that in reality, but it may hurt your chances in the future if you don't at least show some interest in the process. If you can have a picture of two half naked chics on top of each other, something tells me there is a leader in you screaming to get out!

 

You can't let work relationships worry you either. Work is basically like prision. You don't choose who is in the cell with you for the most part and you are all in it together. Once you get your freedom you are usually on your own way again.

[Nanker]

/dev/null you have to ask yourself, what successful CIO ever made it to the top by skipping the front line manager position?

Of course, you might not aspire to the summit of corporate America in your field.

But it strikes me that if you're pondering throwing your hat into the ring, perhaps you should.

You don't want to be telling your grandkids someday, "Son, I shouldda !@#$ that sheep. Instead, I let Kirk do it and look what happened."

 

No regrets. Ever.

 

Good luck.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Just remember to turn the fry-o-later off when you are closing up and you will do fine.

[Just Jack]

With all the Office Space references in his post and no one recommended that he double check the placement of the decimal point on the bank software?

[GG]

When you've really been working long enough, you'll realize that the real career advancement happens when you start your own gig.

 

Or fail at one, and realize what you really enjoy out of a career.

[MattyT]

Do you think you would be able to take as much pride and enjoyment in coming up with administrative solutions as you do technical solutions? If yes, then go for it and good luck.

 

You're gonna have to change your username though.

 

Let me suggest "/My Documents/Spreadsheets"

[RayFinkle]

If nothing else, it is always good to have some interview experience for a "higher" position, especially if you haven't been on one in a while.

[The Avenger]

I think the concept of "advancement" depends on the corporate culture of your company. In many places it is true that to be perceived as "advancing" you get pushed into management - "the boss" is always more powerful, successful and better compensated, right? That used to weork pretty well, but it doesn't always hold true today, particularly in technical fields.

 

Management is its own skill. Some people are very good at it, some people are very bad. Some of it can be learned, some of it can't. Some people enjoy it, others can't stand it.

 

I think you probably need to step back and ask yourself:

 

1. What do I WANT to do? Do I enjoy being a very technical person? Do I want to do less technical work and do more management work? What makes me feel good about my current job? What's missing?

 

2. If you decide you decide you want to try management, do you think you can do it successfully? Sure you'll need to learn like anyone else, but do you feel you'll evolve into an effective manager?

 

I think the WORST thing you could possibly do is to go into management because you feel its the only way to advance and that by taking such a position you would be doing something you didn't enjoy or felt you wouldn't be effective doing. This happens frequently in technology fields - the senior technical guy gets pushed into a management role because "that's advancement" and the guy has no desire or aptitude for it. In the end, everyone loses in this scenario - the company doesn't get what they want/need out of a manager and the employee gets frustrated/burned out and fails and leaves, taking all his knowledge with him.

 

If you don't want to take a management route to advance you don't have to - but you need to be with a company that understands that. There are many technology companies where people in non-management roles "advance" by continuing to climb the ladder in terms of responsibility and pay without taking any management responsibility. It won't get you to be CIO or CEO, but that may not be what you want anyway. I'm in technology management because I enjoy management and was never heavy duty technical, but some of the guys who report into me actually make more than I do based on their technical skills - I'm higher on the organization chart, but the truth of the matter is that these guys have "advanced" beyond me (and I'm fine with that).

[Ramius]

With all the Office Space references in his post and no one recommended that he double check the placement of the decimal point on the bank software?

 

Good point. How in the hell is he supposed to roll a 35?

[mcjeff215]

Do you think you would be able to take as much pride and enjoyment in coming up with administrative solutions as you do technical solutions? If yes, then go for it and good luck.

 

You're gonna have to change your username though.

 

Let me suggest "/My Documents/Spreadsheets"

 

\My Documents\Spreadsheets