tombstone56 Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 i think if you want a great offense you need the qb ,,lossman,,,,,,,,, 1 top wr evans,,,,,,,,, a rb thats consistent,,,,,,,,,,thomas,,,,,,,,, a strong o line,, maybe its there ,,,,,,,,????, but you need a dominant pass catching te,, we have adequate but non threats at te,,the bills will address this in the draft,, imo there are 4 players in the first rd ,,the bills have on thier wish list thats why the presumtion that they want 2 firsts,, patrick willis ,, greg olsen ,chad houston and paul pozluuny ,, in that order,, willis and oaz would be huge but willis and briggs ,far fu,,in out,, briggs wants to be the centerpiece to a defense according to last interveiw he was sick of hearing the "urlacher" lead bears... anything s possible the coutdown continues....... spaeth in the 4th???
obie_wan Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 Actually, not to nitpick...but Marv held this same position with the Alouettes as well as coach. He was a director of personnel (pseudo-GM, sort of speak). Marv was influential in the drafts back then with the Bills too. He did not have the final say as Bill P did and AJ did the scouting, but he had a lot of input based on his experience. The gentleman who said the Bills 90ish drafts suck, I think was being too harsh. Granted, a lot of guys didn't make the team, but a lot of that has to do with the strength and depth of our football team. We had a lot of continuity for awhile where it was difficult to unseat even the backups because of their outstanding STs play.(Carwell Gardners, Mark Pikes, etc.) Marv did have final say on the draft when he was VP of Football Operations and Butler was GM (in name only). Butler was primarily head scout as Jeff Littman handled the cap and monye side of the business.
OCinBuffalo Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 Did you read Marv's book? Marv is one of the best talent evaluators around. It's no coincidence the Bills had great players in the early 90s, and had an excellent looking draft last year. Someone needs to tell ESPN that. I didn't read the book but it seems some here have forgotten exactly how the team of the 90's was built: in the 80's. We went to the AFC championship game in 88! How did we get there? We had the best D in the league. That's right I said DEFENSE, not Super Offense. Now a question: How was that D built? Answer: almost 100% through the draft(Fred Smerlas is the only starter pre-Marv that stayed on - that I can think of). The Super Offense wasn't begun in earnest until we drafted(and got immensely lucky, IMO) Thurman Thomas in round 2(we didn't have a #1 - see below), #40 over all in 1988, and Don Beebe in round 3(didn't have a round 1 or 2 - see below), 82nd overall in 1989. Here's one more thing to consider: In 1987, we dropped 2 #1 draft picks(1998, 1989) a 2nd(1989) and our starting RB who had run for 1,300 yards+ the last two years, just to get Cornelius Bennet(I had to look that up - and it's been so long, I forgot how much we actually gave up - it still shocks me) when Marv was the coach. Therefore we know that Marv has seen that approach work, and it can't be counted out. So, I don't think it's a surprise that Marv drafted all D last year, and I don't think it will be a surprise when he does it again. And, if Marv is high on a guy I can see him doing whatever is necessary to get him. I also think that we won't see serious consideration paid to the O until next year: which would be in the same pattern of drafting as last time = we wait and draft a top RB in 2008, after two years of drafting D high.
Git'er Done Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 I think we've taken the approach that it is better to have a clearly defined strength than just be good in all aspects. I think our strength will be our offense this year, and our coaches will be scheming around our defensive deficiencies- something they are more than qualified to do. A rapidly improving QB, a franchise WR, and a much improved O-line should give us a very efficient offense, and having the best special teams in the league will help greatly. If we have another strong draft, playoffs are a disctict possibility. Yes. I have mentioned this before. That is why I hope they draft a RB in the 1st. The offense has to progess. If it were to take a step back it could take the whole team down. Losman loses confidence, veterans all pissed off, defense starts pointing fingers.....basically 2005 all over again. The new core (Losman, Evans) might never recover. Bring in a new qb blah, blah, blah. I don't think the defense will be any worse than last year. I don't think they will miss Fletcher, and TKO will be better or replaced by some who will probably be at least as good as he was this year, plus the young guys will be BETTER. The offense HAS to move FORWARD
Git'er Done Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 I didn't read the book but it seems some here have forgotten exactly how the team of the 90's was built: in the 80's. We went to the AFC championship game in 88! How did we get there? We had the best D in the league. That's right I said DEFENSE, not Super Offense. Now a question: How was that D built? Answer: almost 100% through the draft(Fred Smerlas is the only starter pre-Marv that stayed on - that I can think of). The Super Offense wasn't begun in earnest until we drafted(and got immensely lucky, IMO) Thurman Thomas in round 2(we didn't have a #1 - see below), #40 over all in 1988, and Don Beebe in round 3(didn't have a round 1 or 2 - see below), 82nd overall in 1989. Here's one more thing to consider: In 1987, we dropped 2 #1 draft picks(1998, 1989) a 2nd(1989) and our starting RB who had run for 1,300 yards+ the last two years, just to get Cornelius Bennet(I had to look that up - and it's been so long, I forgot how much we actually gave up - it still shocks me) when Marv was the coach. Therefore we know that Marv has seen that approach work, and it can't be counted out. So, I don't think it's a surprise that Marv drafted all D last year, and I don't think it will be a surprise when he does it again. And, if Marv is high on a guy I can see him doing whatever is necessary to get him. I also think that we won't see serious consideration paid to the O until next year: which would be in the same pattern of drafting as last time = we wait and draft a top RB in 2008, after two years of drafting D high. Why are the past drafts "Marv's" but the new drafts not "Jauron's". I think of the drafts from the Polian years as "Polian's" or maybe "Polian & Butler's". Also that back, I think, was the big pouter Greg Bell who I think was holding out. If he just ran the ball instead of concentrating on being a dlck, he probably would have been kept.
OCinBuffalo Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 Why are the past drafts "Marv's" but the new drafts not "Jauron's". I think of the drafts from the Polian years as "Polian's" or maybe "Polian & Butler's". They are Marv/Polian's period. They worked as a team - I thought this was common knowledge based on the thousands of press accounts demonstrating that fact show - but apparently it's not. My point is that Marv was around for the Bennet trade, in fact he has stated publicly that he was initially against it and had to be brought around by Polian. And, the point is he has seen that tactic work right in front of him - so it can't be counted out. Wrt, today I think that you are now seeing the very same team approach with Marv/DJ. And, I think Butler's involvement is massively overstated by some here because it makes them "right" about things they said 6-10 years ago(long story). I don't think Butler had no involvement, I do think that it was run as a team that included all of them. Therefore, I don't think it's inconsistent to expect Marv to set the same tone today.
Rubes Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 Honestly if Buffalo knew how to sustain drives last year, they easily get 3 more wins if not 4! And how many would we have gotten if we had a defense that could hold a lead in the fourth?
Git'er Done Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 They are Marv/Polian's period. They worked as a team - I thought this was common knowledge based on the thousands of press accounts demonstrating that fact show - but apparently it's not. My point is that Marv was around for the Bennet trade, in fact he has stated publicly that he was initially against it and had to be brought around by Polian. And, the point is he has seen that tactic work right in front of him - so it can't be counted out. Wrt, today I think that you are now seeing the very same team approach with Marv/DJ. And, I think Butler's involvement is massively overstated by some here because it makes them "right" about things they said 6-10 years ago(long story). I don't think Butler had no involvement, I do think that it was run as a team that included all of them. Therefore, I don't think it's inconsistent to expect Marv to set the same tone today. I never said Marv wasn't involved. In fact I began to type "Now I know someone will write that Marv had input", but I didn't because I thought that was obvious, and it gets really fcking tedious disclaiming every idiotic interpretation of every post. I know Bills history pretty well. I guess I could ask why YOU never mentioned Polian. I also believe you are underestimating the former head of scouting Butler's input. That is another difference. My point is that this is a different group of people and the team is at a different point. I have also yet to read anyone referring to the last draft as "Jauron's Draft", yet he probably played as big a part in this draft as Marv did in "Marv's draft's" of the 80's.
OCinBuffalo Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 I never said Marv wasn't involved. In fact I began to type "Now I know someone will write that Marv had input", but I didn't because I thought that was obvious, and it gets really fcking tedious disclaiming every idiotic interpretation of every post. I know Bills history pretty well. I guess I could ask why YOU never mentioned Polian. I also believe you are underestimating the former head of scouting Butler's input. That is another difference. My point is that this is a different group of people and the team is at a different point. I have also yet to read anyone referring to the last draft as "Jauron's Draft", yet he probably played as big a part in this draft as Marv did in "Marv's draft's" of the 80's. Before you start throwing the idiot word around I suggest you read my posts. I've been clear in stating that IT'S NOT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTION:blink: So stop disclaiming for things I'm not saying and stop projecting idiotic interpretations that aren't there. It's very tedious for me that the level of reading comprehension around here would get most people in trouble - in 5th grade. Whether you have heard anything before doesn't matter - I am telling you now - Marv saw his teamwork with Polian work well, and that is the model he is using now with DJ. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INDIVIDUAL EFFORTS. You seem to be the one hanging on "whose" draft it is - which is irrelevant for reasons I have already stated. As far as Butler goes, I have already addressed that.
Paup 1995MVP Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 Yes. I have mentioned this before. That is why I hope they draft a RB in the 1st. The offense has to progess. If it were to take a step back it could take the whole team down. Losman loses confidence, veterans all pissed off, defense starts pointing fingers.....basically 2005 all over again. The new core (Losman, Evans) might never recover. Bring in a new qb blah, blah, blah. I don't think the defense will be any worse than last year. I don't think they will miss Fletcher, and TKO will be better or replaced by some who will probably be at least as good as he was this year, plus the young guys will be BETTER. The offense HAS to move FORWARD I agree. The offense was inconsistent at best last year. We definitely need some more playmakers to stretch the opposing defenses. A pass catching tight end with some speed, another wide receiver with some size to compliment who we have now, and at least one big time running back with some breakaway speed and TOUGHNESS are needed. Now that we have what I hope is a vastly improved O-line, we need to compliment that with some skill player upgrades. Unless Adrian Peterson falls to us at 12, we are best off trading down, getting some extra picks and picking our running back in the second or third rounds.
BillsVet Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Marv relies on other people to do what other team's GM's do. Overdorf, Modrak, those guys do things Marv should be doing. Face it, Marv's a figurehead with a desk. He's doing what Ralph Wilson wanted when he hired him-put a good face out there for the organization. And with the dealing of Willis he's started that. Spikes has been rumored to be a disruptive force in the locker room, especially with his comments in the wake of Vincent being released. Marv will handle that in due time. You have to figure that Jim McNally had a big hand in getting Dockery and Walker and advised Marv. IMO DJ had a big hand in going defense in the draft in 2006. Marv never ran the Cover-2 as a Head Coach. He was new to the system and DJ already knew it well, having run it in Chicago. One thing about DJ, he got some players in Chicago like Urlacher and Briggs. So if he's advising Marv that's not an altogether bad thing. GM's and coaches aren't crazy about scouts historically and so that coach-GM relationship is important.
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 I think we've taken the approach that it is better to have a clearly defined strength than just be good in all aspects. I think our strength will be our offense this year, and our coaches will be scheming around our defensive deficiencies- something they are more than qualified to do. A rapidly improving QB, a franchise WR, and a much improved O-line should give us a very efficient offense, and having the best special teams in the league will help greatly. If we have another strong draft, playoffs are a disctict possibility. My signature says it all. Without a good o-line and belief in them, we don't even have an offense.
Bob in STL Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 I think we've taken the approach that it is better to have a clearly defined strength than just be good in all aspects. I think our strength will be our offense this year, and our coaches will be scheming around our defensive deficiencies- something they are more than qualified to do. A rapidly improving QB, a franchise WR, and a much improved O-line should give us a very efficient offense, and having the best special teams in the league will help greatly. If we have another strong draft, playoffs are a disctict possibility. What good is a great offense that never gets on the field? I think Marv had to address the OL because (1)our OL talent was very poor and would take several drafts to improve; and (2) there were OL free agents that fit the profile we are looking for. I think we will address the defense in the draft, especially LB and a CB. If a monster DT like Okoye is there then we just can't pass on him.
Bill from NYC Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 i think with the left side now LOCKED DOWN, this allows Fowler to help whoever is playing RG. especially if they do put Walker at RT, he should be able to handle that side, and as long as he handles HIS business, the RG will be helped from both sides. Fowler is undersized and has trouble with some snaps, and could probably use more help from a good RG than he is prepared to offer one. Let's keep it real.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 agreed...but then again what happened during the super bowl years. for about 5-6 years starting in 1990-1991ish, our drafts were horrendous.. we were drafting second-last all those years, and taking guys to be on a team with no real holes. bad draft's are bound to happen to good teams. that's why they let the worst teams pick first and the good ones pick last.
Git'er Done Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Before you start throwing the idiot word around I suggest you read my posts. I've been clear in stating that IT'S NOT ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL CONTRIBUTION:blink: So stop disclaiming for things I'm not saying and stop projecting idiotic interpretations that aren't there. It's very tedious for me that the level of reading comprehension around here would get most people in trouble - in 5th grade. Whether you have heard anything before doesn't matter - I am telling you now - Marv saw his teamwork with Polian work well, and that is the model he is using now with DJ. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INDIVIDUAL EFFORTS. You seem to be the one hanging on "whose" draft it is - which is irrelevant for reasons I have already stated. As far as Butler goes, I have already addressed that. Blow me
PatPatPatSack Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 they also lost 4 superbowls because they couldn't stop the run. Last year they couldn't stop the run and they have more holes on D now. D will be the focus. Regardless of how many fans talk about it, you don't draft to win the superbowl. You draft to win your division and you draft to win 11 games. IF you get that far, you figger out what to do next. But it would be lunacy and crazy thinking to expect that winning the superbowl was a factor in how we draft on day 1 or day 2. The route to the bowl is thru the division. And the pros know to take care of business first and then think about the fun stuff. You know what you have in Miami, NY, and NE. Now go beat them. Then we'll talk.
Dawgg Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Jauron: "I've always said, and it's not good in print, but it's the truth, if you want to be a good team you have to be good everywhere. Kick it well, cover it well, return it well, run it, play both sides of the ball. You can't dominate on one side and generally win it all. We've got to improve over the entire team, step forward and improve ourselves with the given opportunities where we can." -- Bills coach Dick Jauron, whose team was 7-9 last year. I think we've taken the approach that it is better to have a clearly defined strength than just be good in all aspects. I think our strength will be our offense this year, and our coaches will be scheming around our defensive deficiencies- something they are more than qualified to do. A rapidly improving QB, a franchise WR, and a much improved O-line should give us a very efficient offense, and having the best special teams in the league will help greatly. If we have another strong draft, playoffs are a disctict possibility.
SDS Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Jauron: "I've always said, and it's not good in print, but it's the truth, if you want to be a good team you have to be good everywhere. Kick it well, cover it well, return it well, run it, play both sides of the ball. You can't dominate on one side and generally win it all. We've got to improve over the entire team, step forward and improve ourselves with the given opportunities where we can." -- Bills coach Dick Jauron, whose team was 7-9 last year. pwned
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