Are Illegal Immigrants Good Or Bad For Economy?

[Chef Jim]

I live in Buffalo. I use to work in Batavia, but never lived there. Actually, migrant workers are used around the farms there. You might be right, if I lived around more immigrants perhaps I would not like it. Still, I think for the country as a whole more people are better. Look at Europe, population decline--at least the rate of growth--is a serious economic problem. Older societies are not better, younger societies are. If everyone is retired who will do the work?

 

More people are better? I think it's safe to say that most of the world's ills is due to too many people.

 

Oh and BTW I grew up just south of Batavia in farm country and years ago, yes migrant workers did all the work. But guess what, at that time they were all Americans. What happened?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Sure, without taxes that is really like $60 an hour.

And that much, you could afford to pay for Blue Cross yourself.

When I got out of high school in Amherst in 1986, I recall kids that didn't go to college could still make a decent living by doing roof work and building houses. Is that still true now?

 

I have bought and sold about 4 homes here in NC, each time moving to a bigger one.

Most of the people working on the houses didn't speak english, and you can bet most of them weren't legal.

Not that I like it much, but the builders to give you any other options.

It is one thing to get them to do stuff like painting, but more and more I see them doing the higher wage work like electric wiring and plumbing.

 

I can't believe this doesn't hurt the wages of the legal folds.

 

Plus, I don't like cutting corners when it comes to stuff that could burn down your house.

And its not like the builders pass on the savings, it goes in their pockets.

 

You need crack down on them like a hammer, and you will see the number of people coming here illegally drop big time.

 

 

Hooray for fascist government intervention! We'll show those wetbacks who is boss!

[Ramius]

Sure, without taxes that is really like $60 an hour.

And that much, you could afford to pay for Blue Cross yourself.

When I got out of high school in Amherst in 1986, I recall kids that didn't go to college could still make a decent living by doing roof work and building houses. Is that still true now?

 

I have bought and sold about 4 homes here in NC, each time moving to a bigger one.

Most of the people working on the houses didn't speak english, and you can bet most of them weren't legal.

Not that I like it much, but the builders to give you any other options.

It is one thing to get them to do stuff like painting, but more and more I see them doing the higher wage work like electric wiring and plumbing.

 

I can't believe this doesn't hurt the wages of the legal folds.

 

Plus, I don't like cutting corners when it comes to stuff that could burn down your house.

And its not like the builders pass on the savings, it goes in their pockets.

 

You need crack down on them like a hammer, and you will see the number of people coming here illegally drop big time.

 

well, obviously, all illegals are stupid and therefore do not have the knowledge or mental capacity to do wiring or plumbing. leave them and the other 3rd world "dummies" to stick to picking fruit and hammering nails.

[Chef Jim]

well, obviously, all illegals are stupid and therefore do not have the knowledge or mental capacity to do wiring or plumbing. leave them and the other 3rd world "dummies" to stick to picking fruit and hammering nails.

 

I was on your side when we were talking about driving, but here I'll have to disagree. It's not that they are stupid, it's because they are unskilled and are being brought in to do the work cheaply. Who's at fault? The contractors of course. The workmanship here in soCal is shoddy at best.

[Ramius]

I was on your side when we were talking about driving, but here I'll have to disagree. It's not that they are stupid, it's because they are unskilled and are being brought in to do the work cheaply. Who's at fault? The contractors of course. The workmanship here in soCal is shoddy at best.

 

fair enough. i'm basing my statements from some old family friends and neighbors in SD. They've had it both ways in their work done by illegals, both shoddy worksmanship, and some absolutely great work. You prolly know a little bit more about it than i do.

 

Either way, its the contractors that are at fault. trying to save a buck anyway possible, at the cost of the consumer.

[Bill from NYC]

Either way, its the contractors that are at fault. trying to save a buck anyway possible, at the cost of the consumer.

 

It is the contractors AND the government for turning a blind eye to the invasion. People like Calderon and Vincente Fox seem to be dictating American policy, and this alone is pretty sick.

Many of the illegals are not literate in any language. Who is paying for their education, middle class people, or those who have real money? The rich are insulated from living near illegals. It was easy to do, because they had much practice after removing themselves from (perish the thought) living near African-Americans. Mexican leaders are shipping their poor and sick right into our neighborhoods. They work here and send many of their American dollars back to Mexico where it goes to support Mexican billionaires.

 

Construction used to be a high paying field. It was dangerous, but workers knew the risk. My deceased father was a union boilermaker. They built power plants, and he walked I-Beams 20 or so floors up, in the elements. He welded off of scaffolds.

People who are brave and skilled enough to do this deserve a lot of money. Today, illegals are working on jobs for pennies, and they are getting killed. Safety is a non-issue quite often.

 

Not every American kid is going to be as educated as you. American kids need jobs. They need to work, support families and contribute to society. Jobs are being swept away while our government winks. It is disgusting.

 

The cries of hypocrites asking "who will do these jobs" reminds me WAY to much of slave owners asking "who will pick this cotton?"

[pdh1]

Hooray for fascist government intervention! We'll show those wetbacks who is boss!

 

So a government is fascist for wanting immigrants to go thru in an orderly process, so you know, we can find little things, like if they have a criminal past? Or so they can pay taxes on their income like everyone else.

 

Yes, when one thinks of fascist governments, those are the type of terrors the mind pictures.

 

Open borders for all!

Uh, except the fact Mexico has the military on their southern border, and they don't allow non-citizens to organize protests, etc.. etc....friggin etc..

[Wacka]

I'm sorry.....why were the illegals demonstating in California?

Because they feel like first class citizens?

 

 

ICE should have been there with buses. Ask them if they have proof of citizenship and ship them back to Mexico or whatever country they came from if they didn't.

In front of every Home Depot and Lowes here, there are at least 30 illegals standing on the sidewalk looking for work. They yell at you if you leave without giving them a job. They also supress the business around where they loiter.

 

Right there 3 laws broken.

Illegally in the country

Loitering

Harassment.

 

If you want to come here DO IT LEGALLY.

[Chef Jim]

fair enough. i'm basing my statements from some old family friends and neighbors in SD. They've had it both ways in their work done by illegals, both shoddy worksmanship, and some absolutely great work. You prolly know a little bit more about it than i do.

 

Either way, its the contractors that are at fault. trying to save a buck anyway possible, at the cost of the consumer.

 

I may have painted with a broad brush in regard to the shoddy work. Sure there is some great work done, but that is usually for people with money who pay for and expect only perfection. The contractor we hired to do our bathroom hired subs that were either born here or had been here a long time (no visible accent) and they did a great job.

[pdh1]

well, obviously, all illegals are stupid and therefore do not have the knowledge or mental capacity to do wiring or plumbing. leave them and the other 3rd world "dummies" to stick to picking fruit and hammering nails.

 

 

That's right! Why mess with licensed professionals with silly little things like your home's electrical wiring?

 

I also heard you can save a boatload on plastic surgery on your face if you travel to Latin America!

 

 

Must be because of Mexico's outstanding public education system!

 

Absent Proof of Birth, Children Stay Home

 

GUADALAJARA, Mexico -- Isabel Lopez Torres, a shy-eyed 11-year-old, can't write her own name because she's never been to school. Like thousands of other children in Mexico, she's been barred from public schools because of a bureaucratic barrier: She has no birth certificate.

 

"I wish she had one," said Isabel's mother, Bertha Torres Castillo, who, like many poor people in Mexico, has never registered the births of her children. Standing in the doorway of her crumbling home in a shantytown next to the railroad tracks here, Torres held an infant in her arms as Isabel smiled from behind her skirt and her five other young children played nearby. "I want them to study, otherwise they'll all just be here taking care of babies," she said.

 

Mexico's constitution guarantees every child the right to public education. But principals and teachers routinely deny enrollment to students who cannot produce a birth certificate, education specialists here said, even though for many poor people that simple form can be as difficult to obtain as a college diploma.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Open borders for all!

 

Free markets and open borders are the key to economic prosperity.

[molson_golden2002]

More people are better? I think it's safe to say that most of the world's ills is due to too many people.

 

Oh and BTW I grew up just south of Batavia in farm country and years ago, yes migrant workers did all the work. But guess what, at that time they were all Americans. What happened?

More younger people are better. People in their working years being productive. Face it, we have an aging population.

 

And I guess maybe the American farm workers moved on to other jobs. I for one do not want to work in a field.

[molson_golden2002]

Construction used to be a high paying field. It was dangerous, but workers knew the risk. My deceased father was a union boilermaker. They built power plants, and he walked I-Beams 20 or so floors up, in the elements. He welded off of scaffolds.

People who are brave and skilled enough to do this deserve a lot of money. Today, illegals are working on jobs for pennies, and they are getting killed. Safety is a non-issue quite often.

 

Not every American kid is going to be as educated as you. American kids need jobs. They need to work, support families and contribute to society. Jobs are being swept away while our government winks. It is disgusting.

 

The cries of hypocrites asking "who will do these jobs" reminds me WAY to much of slave owners asking "who will pick this cotton?"

I think you make a really good point. I don't agree the immigrants are working for pennies, and I don't think all the jobs are gone, but it is true that good blue collar jobs are hard to come by these days. That is for a variety of reasons, not just immigrants.

 

I don't like your slaveholder comparison. If the immigrants left there would be a shortage of labor in many areas. Labor shortages do really happen, and they hurt employers and consumers alike.

[pdh1]

Free markets and open borders are the key to economic prosperity.

 

Free markets, yes.

Open borders=choas

[Ramius]

Free markets and open borders are the key to economic prosperity.

 

open borders to legal immigrants, sure, but you cant have an open border for illegals.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

open borders to legal immigrants, sure, but you cant have an open border for illegals.

 

then you HAVE to change what is legal/illegal.

[Chef Jim]

then you HAVE to change what is legal/illegal.

 

So you're for complete amnesty? Joe, there are more than enough here to do the work. They are clogging the streets looking for work. There is nothing good that will come from that.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

So you're for complete amnesty? Joe, there are more than enough here to do the work. They are clogging the streets looking for work. There is nothing good that will come from that.

 

OK, so then what do you propose? It's obvious enforcement is an abject failure, just like in the War on Drugs. So long as there is a disparity in prosparity on both sides of the border, people will continue to come to this country.

[DC Tom]

So you're for complete amnesty? Joe, there are more than enough here to do the work. They are clogging the streets looking for work. There is nothing good that will come from that.

 

That's not even remotely what he said...and he does have a point. One of the main causes of illegal immigrants is an immigration process that takes too long to get too few people legally residing in the country. What JSP said could just as easily mean "immigration reform" - which any sane person can see is necessary, given the amount of illegals in out country - as "amnesty".

 

Of course, ever since Bush came out in support of immigration reform, people have assumed it means "amnesty" anyway, because Bush Bad...

[MattyT]

That's not even remotely what he said...and he does have a point. One of the main causes of illegal immigrants is an immigration process that takes too long to get too few people legally residing in the country.

Bingo.