Bill from NYC Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 Bill, this is the best post I've read since I've been at Twobillsdrive.com and that goes back to 1999. And I'm serious. We've had our share of differences about football and PPP, but this is very well put. I appreciate this. Honestly, I am surprised that none of the lefties have accused me of racism. I was sort of hoping for that, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 I appreciate this. Honestly, I am surprised that none of the lefties have accused me of racism. I was sort of hoping for that, you know. You're probably better at defending yourself then I am because I always get accused of being racist and it really drives me nuts. I'm a pretty liberal person but how can you ignore FACTS. I can't understand why people can't see what's right in front of their nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share Posted March 18, 2007 You're probably better at defending yourself then I am because I always get accused of being racist and it really drives me nuts. I'm a pretty liberal person but how can you ignore FACTS. I can't understand why people can't see what's right in front of their nose. I don't think you have to be racist to oppose immigration, but there are those who are racists. Still, you make an argument that it hurts American workers. I'm not convinced. What if all the illegals left and McDonald's, farmers, meat packers, poultry companies, cleaning companies and all the rest of people that rely on cheap labor had to suddenly compete for the work force that was left. Wages would no doubt go up, but so would prices. The same worker making more money would have to pay more for a double order of chicken wings because the poultry plant had to pay more to find someone to strip and cut the chicken. Someone has suggested that we might automate more businesses. Ok, but that would take a lot of time and in the meantime there would be problems I'm sure. Taking a longer view, I think having the immigrants here, working, having kids--and most of them are good kids, like my father who was the son of an immigrant--adding to the population is a good thing. We need a younger population to help get us over the baby boom hump. THese kids will grow up to be productive workers who pay taxes and contribute their talents to the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 I don't think you have to be racist to oppose immigration, but there are those who are racists. Still, you make an argument that it hurts American workers. I'm not convinced. What if all the illegals left and McDonald's, farmers, meat packers, poultry companies, cleaning companies and all the rest of people that rely on cheap labor had to suddenly compete for the work force that was left. Wages would no doubt go up, but so would prices. The same worker making more money would have to pay more for a double order of chicken wings because the poultry plant had to pay more to find someone to strip and cut the chicken. So, what I am hearing you say is that illegal aliens may be good for the economy because they keep prices down and we dont have to pay them them minimum wage? Explain to me again why raising the minimum wage is a good thing again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share Posted March 18, 2007 So, what I am hearing you say is that illegal aliens may be good for the economy because they keep prices down and we dont have to pay them them minimum wage? Explain to me again why raising the minimum wage is a good thing again? Illegal immigrants make more than the minimum wage from what I gather. Sometimes much more. Working in the meat packing plants isn't easy work and you have to convince someone to move from Mexico and do the work, they won't do that for minimum wage. Think how much you would have to pay Americans to do that. As to your point about prices and minimum wage, I don't think it will have nearly the impact of getting rid of illegals. Illegals have a bigger impact on the economy. Giving a minimum wage hick to the minimum wage workers could easily be absorbed by the economy, but if you got rid of the illegal workers altogther that would be a huge shock to the economy because the work would not get done. Look at Colorado--where we have the toughest illigal laws--they are running out of workers and have to turn to convicts to pick what they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Illegal immigrants make more than the minimum wage from what I gather. Sometimes much more. Working in the meat packing plants isn't easy work and you have to convince someone to move from Mexico and do the work, they won't do that for minimum wage. Think how much you would have to pay Americans to do that. As to your point about prices and minimum wage, I don't think it will have nearly the impact of getting rid of illegals. Illegals have a bigger impact on the economy. Giving a minimum wage hick to the minimum wage workers could easily be absorbed by the economy, but if you got rid of the illegal workers altogther that would be a huge shock to the economy because the work would not get done. Look at Colorado--where we have the toughest illigal laws--they are running out of workers and have to turn to convicts to pick what they can. Although your post is certainly guided by your propensity to parrot the views of corrupt, phony leftists, it IS ironic that your stance on this issue mirrors that of President Bush, you know....the man that you have started 100 threads about to tell us how bad he is. Tell us, is your warm welcome to these invaders based only economics, or is your love for all humanity shining through? Is there any downside to this invasion, or does your liberal a-hole handbook prevent you from mentioning this? Btw, it is interesting that you are upset because "convicts" are replacing "illegals." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 Although your post is certainly guided by your propensity to parrot the views of corrupt, phony leftists, it IS ironic that your stance on this issue mirrors that of President Bush, you know....the man that you have started 100 threads about to tell us how bad he is. Tell us, is your warm welcome to these invaders based only economics, or is your love for all humanity shining through? Is there any downside to this invasion, or does your liberal a-hole handbook prevent you from mentioning this? Btw, it is interesting that you are upset because "convicts" are replacing "illegals." Dude, why the hostility? It makes you look stupid that you can't answer my argument. I guess the truth makes people angrier than anything. I parrot nothing, but just argue what I feel is right. I've looked at the issue and come to a conclusion, so why all this "phony leftist" crap? Anyway My view is guided mainly by economics and history. I know that immigration made this country great and can continue to contribute to its growth. There are people who simply hate the immigrants because they are scared of them and pretend to care about economic issues to justify their bigotry. Not saying this is you, but it is still a big part of the anti-immigrant crowd. As to President Bush, yes I think he is a dangerous moron, but even he gets something right once and awahile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 Btw, it is interesting that you are upset because "convicts" are replacing "illegals." Oh ya, we have been over this. Look at it this way, agriculture is one of the biggest sectors of our economy, and having convicts do the work would basically give the government control over the work force. So government would decide who gets what workers. Its a dangerous situation if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I've looked at the issue and come to a conclusion, so why all this "phony leftist" crap? Anyway My view is guided mainly by economics and history. I appreciate the seemingly honest answer. Truthfully, I was awaiting something more sappy and starry eyed because of your "leftist" stance on each and every issue. It is interesting however to see you standing side by side with the President on this issue. This is proof positive (imo) that it is increasingly hard to tell who is "conservative" or "liberal" today. The liberal Supreme Court Justices are taking the homes from poor people and giving them to businesses. I always thought that if nothing else, conservatives stood for law and order. Today, they welcome criminals and even gang members with open arms. And now, you are right there with them. I'm sure they appreciate your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I would like to point out that this thread has now reached 12 pages. I have not participated and that has been on purpose to make a point. My point is that people have criticized me for making fun of Canadians and yet here is a twelve page thread about them. My points are always made in a factual way. I point out that I do not hate Canadians, but pity them. Within this thread, the hate for Cnandians is evident from both sides of the argument. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. You talk down on them as if they are not even people. Well, they are people. Stupid and annoying yes, but people just the same. Each year there are scores of these idiots killed trying to cross the Erie River on cardboard rafts. If we had better enforcement policies they would still be alive, even if they were stuck up there freezing off their behinds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Dude, why the hostility? It makes you look stupid that you can't answer my argument. I guess the truth makes people angrier than anything. I parrot nothing, but just argue what I feel is right. I've looked at the issue and come to a conclusion, so why all this "phony leftist" crap? Anyway My view is guided mainly by economics and history. I know that immigration made this country great and can continue to contribute to its growth. There are people who simply hate the immigrants because they are scared of them and pretend to care about economic issues to justify their bigotry. Not saying this is you, but it is still a big part of the anti-immigrant crowd. As to President Bush, yes I think he is a dangerous moron, but even he gets something right once and awahile. I have one simple question. Where do you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I have one simple question. Where do you live? Oz, I'm guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Oz, I'm guessing. No, I really want to know, because is he basing his opinion on experience or by what he's read or from his "feelings." I've lived in southern CA for a quarter of a century and I've experienced the invasion first hand. Yes there are good things but they are greatly diminished by the bad things. He probably lives in Batavia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 No, I really want to know, because is he basing his opinion on experience or by what he's read or from his "feelings." I've lived in southern CA for a quarter of a century and I've experienced the invasion first hand. Yes there are good things but they are greatly diminished by the bad things. He probably lives in Batavia. Maybe he's a Mexican living in SoCal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Maybe he's a Mexican living in SoCal... Now wouldn't that be an interesting plot twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Wages would no doubt go up, but so would prices DING! Fries are done! Now you're starting to get it. The only person who loses out in Illegal Immigration is the CONSUMER. Businesses don't pay higher taxes or higher wages. YOU AND I DO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 DING! Fries are done! Now you're starting to get it. The only person who loses out in Illegal Immigration is the CONSUMER. Businesses don't pay higher taxes or higher wages. YOU AND I DO. Joe, perhaps I am dense, but I don't understand where you are going here. I am trying Bro, but I don't get the point you are trying to make. To make matters worse, I read your post several times and still don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Joe, perhaps I am dense, but I don't understand where you are going here. I am trying Bro, but I don't get the point you are trying to make. To make matters worse, I read your post several times and still don't get it. No business ever takes increased supply/labor/taxation costs. At least not any business that wants to make money. They pass those costs on to the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 No business ever takes increased supply/labor/taxation costs. At least not any business that wants to make money. They pass those costs on to the consumer. OK, does this mean that you welcome illegal aliens because they make prices to consumers cheaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 OK, does this mean that you welcome illegal aliens because they make prices to consumers cheaper? This is one small Pro to the argument...the list of cons is not only longer, but carries much more weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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