Are Illegal Immigrants Good Or Bad For Economy?

[meazza]

Molson has done nothing here for which he need apologize. Nor has he done anything to, as you put it, "once again [make himself] look like a complete idiot."

 

What I found interesting about that link is that the safest drivers tend to be in Midwestern states such as Kansas or Iowa. Meanwhile, immigrant-heavy cities (such as Miami, other Florida cities, Texas cities, etc.) are correlated with worse driving records.

 

Now, I know that Ramius is eager to jump up and tell us that correlation does not prove causation--as though this hadn't occurred to anyone other than him. He'd have a point--sort of. The apparent correlation between having lots of immigrants and worse driving doesn't prove my point. On the other hand, that correlation is completely consistent with my point.

 

So correlation doesn't equal causation, but you're saying that the correlation does in fact equal causation because it supports your theory?

[Alaska Darin]

Molson has done nothing here for which he need apologize. Nor has he done anything to, as you put it, "once again [make himself] look like a complete idiot."

Hey Molson, that right there ought to be enough evidence that you were being an idiot.

[Chef Jim]

So then you're using the Allstate report to prove...what, exactly?

 

 

I've been scratching my head over that myself. Little help here?

[Alaska Darin]

You are so full of sh--. You were saying that the number of bad drivers increases with the number of drivers. Well, sure. My link showed that in certain areas there are more bad drivers as a percentage of drivers. Well duh! Of course a certain area might have more bad drivers than another area, and it would have nothing to do with population at all, that is just common sense.

Can anyone tell me what version of Retard Translator software I'll need to decrypt this paragraph? Thanks in advance.

I bet a trailor park full of drunks, population 300 would have more bad drivers than a small town full of law abiding citizens. Jesus Christ, one wonders what driving is like in Iraq? What is their population again???? LOL! Oh ya, the driving conditions there are probably affected by IEDs, not population.

The best part about this paragraph is you believing it's both credible and relevant. Try staying linear for 10 minutes and not bringing up a Moveon.org talking point in a discussion that's CLEARLY non-partisan. I know it'll be hard, but I'm trying to be a "glass is half full" kinda guy here.

And stay away from the States Rights argument, when all the slave states preached it--except for the fugitive slave law--and the free states were against it, might that not be the determining factor, not just a "large" factor?

I really don't understand the need for you libs to continue down this road, other than as an explanation for why the hell you can't win a Southern state in a Presidential election. "STATES RIGHTS!" "BUNCH OF REDNECKS!" "KKK!"

I appologize for wasting time arguing with an idiot like you. How is that? Good enough?

I'd have to care.

[Orton's Arm]

So correlation doesn't equal causation, but you're saying that the correlation does in fact equal causation because it supports your theory?

The correlation is consistent with what I've been saying, without either proving it or disproving it.

[meazza]

The correlation is consistent with what I've been saying, without either proving it or disproving it.

 

But if correlation does not equal causation, then the fact that it is consistent doesn't mean anything.

[Orton's Arm]

Hey Molson, that right there ought to be enough evidence that you were being an idiot.

Darin has done nothing here for which he need apologize. Nor has he done anything to, as you put it, "once again [make himself] look like a complete idiot."

[Alaska Darin]

Darin has done nothing here for which he need apologize. Nor has he done anything to, as you put it, "once again [make himself] look like a complete idiot."

Every squirrel finds a nut...

 

The exception that proves the rule...

 

10,000 monkeys in a room with typewriters...

[Orton's Arm]

But if correlation does not equal causation, then the fact that it is consistent doesn't mean anything.

The reason correlation doesn't prove causation is that there are generally several possible explanations for why any given correlation exists. Sometimes X might cause both Y and Z, so you'd see a correlation between Y and Z. Or the correlation between Y and Z might be a coincidence. Or Y might be causing Z, or Z might be causing Y. Statistics generally can't tell us which of these competing explanations is correct.

 

So why do you think that cities with high levels of immigrants generally have poor auto safety records? Coincidence? Some underlying factor which both attracts immigrants while also causing bad driving? Or do you think that recent immigrants might, on average, be worse drivers than people who were born here?

[meazza]

The reason correlation doesn't prove causation is that there are generally several possible explanations for why any given correlation exists. Sometimes X might cause both Y and Z, so you'd see a correlation between Y and Z. Or the correlation between Y and Z might be a coincidence. Or Y might be causing Z, or Z might be causing Y. Statistics generally can't tell us which of these competing explanations is correct.

 

So why do you think that cities with high levels of immigrants generally have poor auto safety records? Coincidence? Some underlying factor which both attracts immigrants while also causing bad driving? Or do you think that recent immigrants might, on average, be worse drivers than people who were born here?

 

I have no clue, but I'm an immigrant and i'm a pretty good driver

[Orton's Arm]

Every squirrel finds a nut...

The saying you're thinking of involves a blind squirrel. Hey, if you're going to insult my intelligence, at least try avoiding obvious errors. Then again, if you were into avoiding obvious errors, you wouldn't be insulting my intelligence in the first place, now would you?

[Orton's Arm]

I have no clue, but I'm an immigrant and i'm a pretty good driver

And Tom's from DC, and he'd no doubt thinks he's a good driver too. I'm not trying to make any assumptions about you personally, and I'm sorry if anything I said came across that way. But I do feel that opening up the borders--as we did in 1965--has done this country a lot more harm than good. I'd like to see laws and policies changed, because I want this country to retain the identity it had when I was a child. My quarrel is with the corrupt politicians who keep the border open so that corporations can continue to use immigration to lower wage rates. My quarrel is not with you.

[Chef Jim]

The reason correlation doesn't prove causation is that there are generally several possible explanations for why any given correlation exists. Sometimes X might cause both Y and Z, so you'd see a correlation between Y and Z. Or the correlation between Y and Z might be a coincidence. Or Y might be causing Z, or Z might be causing Y. Statistics generally can't tell us which of these competing explanations is correct.

 

So why do you think that cities with high levels of immigrants generally have poor auto safety records? Coincidence? Some underlying factor which both attracts immigrants while also causing bad driving? Or do you think that recent immigrants might, on average, be worse drivers than people who were born here?

 

Still haven't seen any proof of your cities with high levels of immigrants have poor auto safety records theory. Molson's Allstate stats proved otherwise actually. Your opions/expert "observations" aren't exactly proof.

[Alaska Darin]

The saying you're thinking of involves a blind squirrel. Hey, if you're going to insult my intelligence, at least try avoiding obvious errors. Then again, if you were into avoiding obvious errors, you wouldn't be insulting my intelligence in the first place, now would you?

Actually, I typed the saying I was thinking of. It's in deference to my grandmother because that's how she used to say it and I've never adapted (it's one of those things). In fact, I'm quite sure if you did a search on this board, you'd find that I've used the very same phrase numerous times. It is what it is.

 

But you need the win, so go dance around your playschool mini-bus while whistling "my dog's bigger than your dog". I'm cool with it.

[Orton's Arm]

Actually, I typed the saying I was thinking of. It's in deference to my grandmother because that's how she used to say it and I've never adapted (it's one of those things). In fact, I'm quite sure if you did a search on this board, you'd find that I've used the very same phrase numerous times. It is what it is.

 

But you need the win, so go dance around your playschool mini-bus while whistling "my dog's bigger than your dog". I'm cool with it.

Instead of "winning" a name-calling contest with you, I'd prefer to avoid that kind of game in the first place. How's this: I won't call you names if you don't call me names. Sound fair?

[Orton's Arm]

Still haven't seen any proof of your cities with high levels of immigrants have poor auto safety records theory. Molson's Allstate stats proved otherwise actually. Your opions/expert "observations" aren't exactly proof.

Is there any particular reason why you think the Allstate stats "proved" that immigrants are average or good drivers? I'm not sure how those stats could go about "proving" such a point actually. But I'd like to know which particular thought process led you to that rather interesting conclusion.

[pdh1]

Still haven't seen any proof of your cities with high levels of immigrants have poor auto safety records theory. Molson's Allstate stats proved otherwise actually. Your opions/expert "observations" aren't exactly proof.

 

When the Allstate folks tried to interview them for their study, they took off, changed their name, and got back on the road.

HOLA!

[Bill from NYC]

They are great for the economy, depending on who you are. The business community loves them because they are easy to exploit in terms of low wages, unsafe working conditions, etc.

The super rich love them because of the above, and the fact that they are able to design school districts that are built primarily to keep their little darlings away from illegals, and of course African Americans. Btw, many of these rich racists pose as "liberals."

 

For working people they are a problem, and not only because of gang violence. They drive down wages, increase the price of health care, lower the quality of health care (in terms of waiting at emergency rooms and hospital closures). The Social Security Fund is used a piggy bank for illegals, this while the rest of us worry about the solvency of the fund.

Oh, I think that I would like some of the tax dollars back for the jails that illegals populate in disproportionate numbers.

They are also receiptients of, you guessed it.....affirmative action.

 

In summary, if you are part of elite Corporate America (or one of their stooges), yes; it is great that our nation is being invaded daily by illegal aliens. If not, you are simply left to pick up the check, and live with the consequences.

[molson_golden2002]

1)Can anyone tell me what version of Retard Translator software I'll need to decrypt this paragraph? Thanks in advance.

 

2) The best part about this paragraph is you believing it's both credible and relevant. Try staying linear for 10 minutes and not bringing up a Moveon.org talking point in a discussion that's CLEARLY non-partisan. I know it'll be hard, but I'm trying to be a "glass is half full" kinda guy here.

 

3) I really don't understand the need for you libs to continue down this road, other than as an explanation for why the hell you can't win a Southern state in a Presidential election. "STATES RIGHTS!" "BUNCH OF REDNECKS!" "KKK!"

 

I'd have to care.

1) Just saying that of course the more drivers overall, the more bad drivers. That's really hard to understand!

 

2) I'm sure its about as "creditable" as you living in all these places, pulling out your weathercock and determining the number of bad drivers in an area.

 

3) I'm sorry about pointing out an obvious truth that States Rights was driven mainly and overwhelming by the slaveholders in the South at this time. They are all for it accept when the wanted a strong federal law to get their runaway slaves. And the same thing is becoming true in reverse about Nothern states and the GOP. Sick of the Shivio type sh--, anti-abortion, pro-war at any cost. And I'd just like to point out that those southerners sure loved us liberals when their farms were folding, they didn't have enough eat and no one would care for them when they were sick. Just keep the farm subsidies coming! And please tell me that states rights wasn't used to counter the Federal Government's push on Civil Rights. Where do I get such notions?!

[Alaska Darin]

1) Just saying that of course the more drivers overall, the more bad drivers. That's really hard to understand!

Which was, of course, MY POINT. Thanks for making it again, only this time without telling me I'm wrong and Holcomb's Arm is right, despite his inability to understand such a simple point. What version of Retard Translator did you use?

2) I'm sure its about as "creditable" as you living in all these places, pulling out your weathercock and determining the number of bad drivers in an area.

I'm sorry you're bitter about your lot in life and jealous of mine. I'm also sorry that my "take" on the subject, based on my experience, matched the link you posted from a big insurance company.