Magic54 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 This morning's Sportscenter had an interesting piece on Ahman Green and his fumble problems. They compared where he carries the ball with how Tiki Barber now carries the ball. Tiki carries the ball at a 45 degree angle upwards, which makes it very hard to knock the ball out of his arm (this is a change Tiki has made this season apparently). Green, on the other hand, carries the ball at a 90 degree angle to his body, or parallel to the ground. This makes it more likely that the ball can be easily ripped out. Has anyone seen or heard what Travis Henry is doing differently this season, if anything, to overcome his earlier fumbling problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 yeah he falls to the ground before he hits any defenders. no chance at a strip that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Yeah, he is falling down instead of hitting huge holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic54 Posted October 12, 2004 Author Share Posted October 12, 2004 yeah he falls to the ground before he hits any defenders. no chance at a strip that way. 66763[/snapback] Good point. I suppose if you trip over your own feet before you get to the line of scrimmage, it is hard for the defense to rip the ball out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Travis has a problem with holding the ball still. He likes to switch hands even in traffic for no reason. It is a mental thing and has been talked about a lot. I haven't seen it this year but once or twice, but of course he has to stay on his feet to the holes to really notice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 TH holds the ball the exact same way he did when he had fumble problems a few years back. The difference now has been: pure luck. Travis has been lucky so far. If a defender gets a good hit on the ball, it will come loose. It's just that no defender has yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 TH holds the ball the exact same way he did when he had fumble problems a few years back. The difference now has been: pure luck. Travis has been lucky so far. If a defender gets a good hit on the ball, it will come loose. It's just that no defender has yet. 66782[/snapback] he does seem to be puting two hands on the ball more. either way we just need to sit him on the bench. he isnt running well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 TH holds the ball the exact same way he did when he had fumble problems a few years back. The difference now has been: pure luck. Travis has been lucky so far. If a defender gets a good hit on the ball, it will come loose. It's just that no defender has yet. 66782[/snapback] I think you are correct that luck has a large part to do with this if only because the same number of fumbles will be seen as a huge problem or not much of a problem depending upon when they happen in games and whether they are returned for pivotal TDs or not. The first point can be related to player oerformance but is mostly determined by a combination of factors which add up to luck. the second factor is totally removed from the actual fumble and can be determined by what the other team or players do after the fumble. However, though this luck is a big factor it strikes me as incorrect to TOTALLY attribute fumble occurence to pure luck and to ignore the actions of an individual player. I see no evidence that Henry has changed the angle at which he carries the ball but have seen two changes in Henry's actions which appear to me to be a part of the improvement of his fumble performance: 1. He has made changes in when and how he switches hands- I no longer have the tape of several season ago, but Henry's fumbles as a youngster seem to me to accompany him simply carrying the ball and not effectively protecting it from the likely direction of tackles. It took a direct hit to dislodge the ball, but he did not take actions he could take to minimize the chances of a direct hit. Further, after a few fumbles he did seem to try to make a change in his game to place th ball out of harms way. Unfortunately initially he was seemed overly-concious of this and made a few switches that actually exposed the ball the greater danger as he switched it to the wrong side or loosed his grip making the switch. It was at this point that his fumble problem was at its worst and became a big problem. The functional change in his play that I saw was that Henry actually began to switch the ball around less because he never seemed to show good instincts for making the correct switch. He compensated for this by running with a little bit less abandon as his career progressed, but also had fewer fumbles. 2. The second switch in TH's play seemed to me to come from him making a noticeable effort to protect the ball and focus more on holding onto it. This could be seem im him going more to a two handed hold as soon as he was hit in order to protect the ball. He still displays the habit of letting go of the ball as soon as the play is whistled over (a reaction which occaisionally led to a scramble for the ball after the play was over and a claim by the opponents he had fumbled but less so as his career has gone on) but a viewer can see his increased use of two hand compared to him as a rookie and him protecting the ball after the play is over which he never used to do. I think these two factors (less switching of the ball and more focus on protecting it) are tangible differences which can be seen by the fan, unfortunately have resulted in him running with less abandon, but have paid off in his overall performance as he funbles much less and does not subject the team to the dumb luck of a fumble bouncing the wrong way and being returned for a score (as happened to him a few times early in his career). I think luck is a big factor, but henry has made changes in how he carries the ball which has created better luck for him. Tiki Barber has not made those changes and perhaps if he did he would lose his breakway speed which occaisionally turns into TDs for him, but i think he and TH are capable of changing their carrying styles to avoid funmbles. the question they have answered differently is whether the costs of making these changes on their running success was too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 He is definitely covering the ball with a second hand much more frequently this season, almost sometimes to a point where his balance is affected by it. His one armed carrying technique is basically the same as he used last year, which could have been better but was a vast improvement from 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 either way we just need to sit him on the bench. he isnt running well at all. 66908[/snapback] Mularkey tried that. Travis fell before he got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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