RAISE YOUR HAND!

[LabattBlue]

Bruce Smith.

Okay...Help me out. What's the comparison between WM and Bruce? Yes they were both problem children, but on the field there was no comparison. Even early on(first 3 years of his career) Bruce was a dominant player, where WM has never risen above mediocre.

[Lurker]

he just complained he got no blocking which kept us from winning.

If Ogden retires, is it conceivable that the Bills will have a better O-line than the Ravens next year?

[Sketch Soland]

*POST*

 

I would like it noted on the public record that I have no opinion whatsoever about this thread.

 

Thanks,

Sketch Soland

[The Dean]

*POST*

 

I would like it noted on the public record that I have no opinion whatsoever about this thread.

 

Thanks,

Sketch Soland

 

 

 

Ditto here.

 

Except for this : I think Bruce Smith was a very likable guy. C'mon, doesn't he seem like a good dude to have a few cocktails with?

[Lv-Bills]

I think Willis wanted out as soon as Derrick Dockery had been rumored to have a better burst and 60 time than McGahee.

 

So long Mr. Mediocre. Unless of course, you add in his sub-par blocking detriments.

[Kelly the Dog]

Okay...Help me out. What's the comparison between WM and Bruce? Yes they were both problem children, but on the field there was no comparison. Even early on(first 3 years of his career) Bruce was a dominant player, where WM has never risen above mediocre.

On the field there was no comparison, you're right. Bruce was awesome. It was a response to the post which spoke about likeability of the person. People badmouth Willis for not going to the OTAs, Bruce wouldnt even come to training camp.

[CosmicBills]

This might be my new favorite thread of 2007.

[Kelly the Dog]

Didn't miss it...just agreed with 'dave mcbride' about wanting to "like your players." Having said that I disagree with 'kelly' and concur with 'run the damn ball.' it's clear our other skill players progressed and willis went backwards (injuries aside). All this behind the same line. Bottom line is he didn't want to be here. He would have likely never excelled. Getting two first day picks and a throw in are a bonus.

The pass blocking improved dramatically when they switched the lines. The run blocking was horrid the entire year.

[Adam]

Sure the OL could have done a better job blocking but Willis compounded the problem and made it look much worse by dancing instead of putting his head down and plowing through the hole (you know, like he did with an even worse line 3 years ago).

 

Willis just isn't anything more than an average back and creating a million threads siting all the ridiculous things people say won't change that.

I have to disagree- Willis was an above average RB, which is why we got rid of Henry. He isn't in the Tomlinson category, and never will be- as a person or player

[Kelly the Dog]

This might be my new favorite thread of 2007.

"I think you used a little too much dynamite there, Butch."

[The Dean]

On the field there was no comparison, you're right. Bruce was awesome. It was a response to the post which spoke about likeability of the person. People badmouth Willis for not going to the OTAs, Bruce wouldnt even come to training camp.

 

 

Bruce HATED training camp, it seemed. I always wanted the Bills to just say, "Bruce, you don't need to show up till the pre-season starts. No need to fake an injury this year."

[LabattBlue]

On the field there was no comparison, you're right. Bruce was awesome. It was a response to the post which spoke about likeability of the person. People badmouth Willis for not going to the OTAs, Bruce wouldnt even come to training camp.

Agreed.

[yall]

On the field there was no comparison, you're right. Bruce was awesome. It was a response to the post which spoke about likeability of the person. People badmouth Willis for not going to the OTAs, Bruce wouldnt even come to training camp.

 

It's easy to deal with a problem child when the production is good. It's also easy to accept someone who lacks ability, intellect, or maybe work ethic, if they are likable. But when someone underperforms and still acts like a jerk, what reason would a Bills fan have to like the guy, aside form the color of his jersey?

 

Yeah, we get your orignal point that if the line is such a problem, how can we reasonably expect anyone to perform well. But given that the organization had some pretty compelling reasons to get rid of him (which they did, unless you toe the WGR line that it was "personal") you kinda have to view the trade and the line improvements as seperate issues. Yes, our starting RB was a tool, and yes the line needed improvement.

 

I see it as the team properly addressing two different problems.

[makbeer]

I don't think Willis got a good shake to show his ABILITY here.

 

That said, the real irony is in that Jamal Lewis left Baltimore to CLEVELAND because he didn't feel the line there was good enough.

 

So, did Willis just go from bad...to...bad?

 

I like Willis as a player, I think he's got great talent and I'm upset that we didn't get to watch him run behind our new line...I'm also upset that I don't think he's got much of a line in Baltimore and we're going to watch a promising, young, talented player fizzle out because he's not the brightest and he's got a retard as an agent.

[BillsFanM.D.]

The pass blocking improved dramatically when they switched the lines. The run blocking was horrid the entire year.

There is some validity to that, but of Willis' top five rushing games last year three were in the last month of the season. Maybe the line improved a little or maybe it supports your statement about just how bad our running game was all year. i.e not much improvement in an overall bad year when you look at the hard numbers. Regardless, you cannot discount Willis' role in this and his running style did little to help a difficult situation. To say that was all horrible blocking is too much of a blanket statement for me. He has to eat some of that responsibility. Another poster (diff thread) mentioned Barry Sanders and the horrible o lines he ran behind and that's a fact. He simply got it done. If willis in THE best RB in the league, as he claims to be, an average line (which we were at season end) should equate to more than a couple good games a year. just my 2 pennies.

[Dennis in NC]

Any and all NEW players that arrive at One Bills Drive should be shown a Powerpoint presentation featuring Billy Joe Hobert, Willis and Marv, making it clear what the future holds if you Don't Read the Playbook!

I was a Willis fan until a few weeks ago when it was revealed (it seemed to be team source) that Willis needed an asst coach to signal him personally on what the current play is.

 

The baby mommas, the lazy public persona, don't matter much to me as long as the guy does his best on the friggin' football field.

 

But if "Willis won't do his homework!" then I am very happy to see him go, and to get some very good value in return.

 

Maybe Brian Billick won't mind using an asst coach to keep Willis informed during the games. Maybe Willis will get his head out and start studying a bit.

 

Now, he can hang with the I-boys from the U.

[Kelly the Dog]

There is some validity to that, but of Willis' top five rushing games last year three were in the last month of the season. Maybe the line improved a little or maybe it supports your statement about just how bad our running game was all year. i.e not much improvement in an overall bad year when you look at the hard numbers. Regardless, you cannot discount Willis' role in this and his running style did little to help a difficult situation. To say that was all horrible blocking is too much of a blanket statement for me. He has to eat some of that responsibility. Another poster (diff thread) mentioned Barry Sanders and the horrible o lines he ran behind and that's a fact. He simply got it done. If willis in THE best RB in the league, as he claims to be, an average line (which we were at season end) should equate to more than a couple good games a year. just my 2 pennies.

He missed three games basically. And two others he had 11 and 12 carries. Those three games were home against Indy (the worst run defense in the league), home against Green Bay (where he got hurt very early) and away against Houston. If he played a full season he easily would have had 1200 yards. With little blocking and half the year with no passing game, and according to the majority of the people here, not ever trying.

 

I am not unhappy with the trade, btw. This thread is about hypocrisy.

[Dan]

He missed three games basically. And two others he had 11 and 12 carries. Those three games were home against Indy (the worst run defense in the league), home against Green Bay (where he got hurt very early) and away against Houston. If he played a full season he easily would have had 1200 yards. With little blocking and half the year with no passing game, and according to the majority of the people here, not ever trying.

 

I am not unhappy with the trade, btw. This thread is about hypocrisy.

I think you're getting hung up on what's said in the media and by many of the posters here, hence the perceived hypocrisy. I think you have to look around all the trees and try to see the forest. Willis just didn't seem to like it here. He played well and for that I liked him and always hoped he would stay; however, to most everyone (myself included) he just didn't always seem to have his head screwed on properly and, at times, appeared to play below his abilities - not because of his surrounding players, but due to his lack of complete effort.

 

I think Marv and Jauron saw this, recognized it, and were not willing to accept someone on the team that didn't give his best on every play. On the one hand you have JP who started studying film 2 weeks after the season; on the other you had a RB that chose not to study the playbook at all. I think they made their choice of which type of player they wanted.

 

Willis' production or potential, I don't think, was not nearly as important as his attitude. I mean lets face it, Marv re-signed Shaud. Oblviously, he's willing to keep a guy that doesn't look great on the field. But, I'd suspect Shaud busts his butt at every oppurtunity.

[GG]

Bruce Smith.

 

Selective memory?

 

Depends on which year we're talking about. Bruce Smith, pre 1989 when Broncos signed him to the offer sheet, and most fans would have been more than glad to receive draft picks and let the overweight underachieving first pick bust go? Or the dominant Bruce Smith that everyone now remembers?

[Kelly the Dog]

Selective memory?

 

Depends on which year we're talking about. Bruce Smith, pre 1989 when Broncos signed him to the offer sheet, and most fans would have been more than glad to receive draft picks and let the overweight underachieving first pick bust go? Or the dominant Bruce Smith that everyone now remembers?

Thank you.