1billsfan Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 When your "facts" are simply reciting the TD numbers from the previous year and ignoring the possibility of someone taking a step up in a new system, yes, I have a problem with them. It looks to me like the Pats took a look at areas where they were weak (LB and WR), got some people to fill those holes, and let surplus players from areas of strength go. Now they head into the draft without any overwhelming positional need. I'd say that so far that's a pretty good off-season. Yes but "pretty good" offseason does not make "best" offseason. I was only refuting the premise of an ESPN analyst stating that the Patriots are the winners of the offseason so far. Given the comings and goings in Patriots land, I think that's a rediculous statement and I gave the specific reasons why of which they conveniently made no mention of. I still contend the Pats are on the downward spiral. They have lost a ton of bigtime players from their Superbowl years and history is not kind to dynasty teams that are clearly past their prime.
Billsguy Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 His reasoning made sense. We have very large holes to fill. We have lost our best corner and one of the best in the league. We lost the emotional leader and leading tackler on the defense. We have lost our leading rusher for the past few years. We have added Dockery and paid him Steinbeck money. We have added a linemen whose previous team had an even worse offensive line than the Bills. We have added another journeyman offensive linemen. Remember that the qualifier was "so far." With any luck, these holes will be filled by equal or better talent by the end of the off season. As it stands now, however, we have taken at least a few steps back with the team as a whole. I hope that Marv has a plan that will improve this team over last year by the time we get to the regular season. Time will tell. You summarized it fairly well. Any "objective" analysis would have to conclude the Bills are weaker now than they were a month ago. A net loss of three starters. By itself, this may not be bad, but the Bills DO NOT have ready and capable replacements to fill those huge holes. Get serious. A starting CB, a starting MLB and a starting RB all gone! How dare anybody conclude this is bad (including Michael Smith)!! I get it - the Bills are going to draft a starting CB, a starting MLB and a starting RB and then in the second round they are going to address a real area of need at DT and OLB. In the third round they will draft a FB and a TE. Sounds like a plan. I trust Bills management!! Get those playoff tickets now.
MRW Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Yes but "pretty good" offseason does not make "best" offseason. I was only refuting the premise of an ESPN analyst stating that the Patriots are the winners of the offseason so far. Given the comings and goings in Patriots land, I think that's a rediculous statement and I gave the specific reasons why of which they conveniently made no mention of. OK, I can't really argue with that. Who would you say are the "winners" of the off-season so far (granted it's a stupid question at this point of the year)? Denver maybe? I'm trying to think of other teams that have made major moves without many losses.
Billsjunkie Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 I like Denver so far. Henry, Graham, getting rid of Plummer, Dre Bly (if he stays on).
ncbillsfan Posted March 9, 2007 Author Posted March 9, 2007 You guys do make some good points. We have lost a lot in Fletcher, Clements and Willis. Reading in between the lines, however, the only one that we really wanted back was Clements (as evidence by putting Willis on the trading block and Marv making his comment about "attacking" linebackers in contrast to "pursuing" linebackers). We want to go with the two running back system, which worked pretty well for Indianapolis, Chicago, New England, New Orleans, etc. So, in our coach and GM's eyes we will be upgrading our running back spot. You also have to wonder if Crowell was being groomed to take Fletcher's spot in preparation for his impending free agency. The 8 or 9 games he played in he was extremely impressive. Jauron and Levy also refer to him as an "attacking" linebacker so you have to think that they may believe he would be an upgrade over London. The only position I can't defend is the cornerback spot. Clearly, McGee is not ever going to be a #1 cornerback. At this point we should be hoping he pans out as a solid #2. Youbuty has great upside, but he and Kiawaukee Thomas can't even be compared to Clements. Very early to do a biggest winners and losers segment on ESPN, but even if you want to I don't think these losses (except for Clements) will be that big of a factor. My humble opinion of course.
Koufax Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Any "objective" analysis would have to conclude the Bills are weaker now than they were a month ago. A net loss of three starters. By itself, this may not be bad, but the Bills DO NOT have ready and capable replacements to fill those huge holes. ... I get it - the Bills are going to draft a starting CB, a starting MLB and a starting RB and then in the second round they are going to address a real area of need at DT and OLB. In the third round they will draft a FB and a TE. We lost MLB and RB with the clear intentions of being as good or better at those positions. At the moment that is obviously not the case at RB, and probably not with LB (Ellison-Crowell-Spikes), so additions at both places are necessary and will definitely happen. At CB we lost a top money guy who we would have loved to keep if it wasn't top money. At the moment he is replaced by a second year player who was regularly given first round grades before falling to us in the third. Youboty is unlikely to be the player Nate is right away, but we also might upgrade this position further. So we are a little weaker at corner, maybe a little weaker at LB (I don't think so personally), and with temporarily a glaring hole at RB, the single most replaceable position on the field where we are replacing an average performer. This while getting better at safties, QB, WR through experience. The same at DE, better at DT with McCargo back, much better at O-Line, and the same elsewhere, and this with free agent dollars still left and a high draft slot + extra picks draft coming up. Let Michael Smith say what he wants, but after we re-sign A-Train, sign someone like June, and have a good draft this team is going to be so much better than last year. Another quick comment, it has become the conventional wisdom to put Dockery below Steinbach and Dielman (and Hutchinson), but that doesn't mean that that means he will be worse as a player than them. It is quite possible that we will end up with the best of the bunch, and that OBD has a pretty good idea. But ESPN puts out a list of the top free agents in order, and we think that means that is how it will be.
MRW Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 So we are a little weaker at corner, maybe a little weaker at LB (I don't think so personally), and with temporarily a glaring hole at RB, the single most replaceable position on the field where we are replacing an average performer. The problem I have with this analysis is we have gone from several "knowns" to several "unknowns". The scenario you lay out of getting replacements sounds good, but we have an awful lot of holes to fill now, and no guarantee that the replacements we get will be comparable in quality. I would also say, until proven otherwise, we are a lot weaker at corner. I don't know how anyone could feel confident in Youboty stepping up into a starting role given his (non-)performance last year.
fitnbills Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Yeah, I'm getting a bit sick of all the "rah rah" posts any time someone dares post something negative about the Bills' offseason. No, we all know it's not over yet, but at least from where I'm sitting the Bills have managed a good upgrade to one very important area while creating a number of holes to fill. I'm skeptical at this point that they'll manage to fill them all in satisfactory fashion. Just because someone points this out doesn't mean they're not a fan and I wish people would stop with the content-free bashing of any post that isn't rainbows and sunshine. You totally missed my point. I was suggesting that to this point we haven't improved as a team. We've improved as an offensive line but not as a team. And considering that we were in the playoff hunt last year that's not encouraging. I also said it's not over yet b/c there are alot of free agents that are still out there along with the draft. So between the two of those I'm hopeful that our RB, DT, MLB, OLB, CB positions will get addressed.
MRW Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 You totally missed my point. I was suggesting that to this point we haven't improved as a team. We've improved as an offensive line but not as a team. And considering that we were in the playoff hunt last year that's not encouraging. I also said it's not over yet b/c there are alot of free agents that are still out there along with the draft. So between the two of those I'm hopeful that our RB, DT, MLB, OLB, CB positions will get addressed. Oh, I jumped off on a tangent from what you said, sorry. It wasn't really intended as a direct response... I do agree that's it not over yet, and I do think the front office has a plan and getting rid of Fletcher-Baker and McGahee was part of it (losing Clements was an unfortunate necessity because of last year's decisions). It's reasonable to say that "who's the off-season winner" is a stupid question at this point, but I don't think a good argument can be made that the Bills aren't net losers right now. So yeah, I kinda hijacked your point, sorry about that.
fitnbills Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Oh, I jumped off on a tangent from what you said, sorry. It wasn't really intended as a direct response... I do agree that's it not over yet, and I do think the front office has a plan and getting rid of Fletcher-Baker and McGahee was part of it (losing Clements was an unfortunate necessity because of last year's decisions). It's reasonable to say that "who's the off-season winner" is a stupid question at this point, but I don't think a good argument can be made that the Bills aren't net losers right now. So yeah, I kinda hijacked your point, sorry about that. Thank you for clarifying. And I totally agree with you. I do believe this was all part of the plan. My thought is we'll address RB through Free agency. (possibly Chris Brown) The draft is where I believe we'll get that LB, CB, DT.
Hammond Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Yeah, I'm getting a bit sick of all the "rah rah" posts any time someone dares post something negative about the Bills' offseason. No, we all know it's not over yet, but at least from where I'm sitting the Bills have managed a good upgrade to one very important area while creating a number of holes to fill. I'm skeptical at this point that they'll manage to fill them all in satisfactory fashion. Just because someone points this out doesn't mean they're not a fan and I wish people would stop with the content-free bashing of any post that isn't rainbows and sunshine. amen to that
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