OJ Simpson, Jim Kelly, Willis McGahee?

[Kelly the Dog]

Even here, the land of common dense, I am really kind of surprised by the concept that Willis would or could never be good in Buffalo.

 

OJ Simpson was the same way. Hated being drafted by the Bills, hated Buffalo, didn't play well, got hurt, looked disinterested, lasted four years, wanted out, and then suddenly what happened. They got a coach who got a line and gave him the ball. He soon loved Buffalo, thrived, excelled, and then played out of his head, probably the best player the Bills ever had.

 

Jim Kelly went to Miami, didn't want to play here, didn't come for a few years, struggled early, partied hard, screwed a lot of unmarried women, thought he was God. Suddenly they got a coach that surrounded him with some players and suddenly he loved Buffalo, excelled and became the face of the city. Maybe the most beloved player ever.

 

Was Willis going to repeat what OJ and Kelly did? Who knows. It's debatable. Perhaps not, or even probably not. But you can't say it wasn't going to happen.

 

Okay, maybe he doesn't have the talent of those two. Surely, he's not as purely talented as OJ. But most everyone here thinks he could be a pretty great if not dominant player if he just tried a little harder. And I am not so sorry to see him go myself if we get some decent replacements. There is an addition by subtraction factor, and I understand the new culture that Marv and Jauron are trying to bring and build here. So it's probably a good move overall, and I think that's exactly what Jauron was referring to. My issue is the idea that he just stinks and could never succeed and could never do it in Buffalo, or that he's not a Buffalo guy. Kelly and OJ weren't either for 3-4 years. He was never given a line or an offense or a team of winners. He also had some great games, and contrary to popular disbelief, worked his ass off most of the time.

 

I hope he does well, except, of course, against us.

[Git'er Done]

Even here, the land of common dense, I am really kind of surprised by the concept that Willis would or could never be good in Buffalo.

 

OJ Simpson was the same way. Hated being drafted by the Bills, hated Buffalo, didn't play well, got hurt, looked disinterested, lasted four years, wanted out, and then suddenly what happened. They got a coach who got a line and gave him the ball. He soon loved Buffalo, thrived, excelled, and then played out of his head, probably the best player the Bills ever had.

 

Jim Kelly went to Miami, didn't want to play here, didn't come for a few years, struggled early, partied hard, screwed a lot of unmarried women, thought he was God. Suddenly they got a coach that surrounded him with some players and suddenly he loved Buffalo, excelled and became the face of the city. Maybe the most beloved player ever.

 

Was Willis going to repeat what OJ and Kelly did? Who knows. It's debatable. Perhaps not, or even probably not. But you can't say it wasn't going to happen.

 

Okay, maybe he doesn't have the talent of those two. Surely, he's not as purely talented as OJ. But most everyone here thinks he could be a pretty great if not dominant player if he just tried a little harder. And I am not so sorry to see him go myself if we get some decent replacements. There is an addition by subtraction factor, and I understand the new culture that Marv and Jauron are trying to bring and build here. So it's probably a good move overall, and I think that's exactly what Jauron was referring to. My issue is the idea that he just stinks and could never succeed and could never do it in Buffalo, or that he's not a Buffalo guy. Kelly and OJ weren't either for 3-4 years. He was never given a line or an offense or a team of winners. He also had some great games, and contrary to popular disbelief, worked his ass off most of the time.

 

I hope he does well, except, of course, against us.

 

Excellent points, Buffalo has too much pride. Most people that live here,if suddenly given milions of dollars, would probably move.

[plenzmd1]

so am I to understand you are comparing Willis to Jim Kelly? Jimbo never once had the look of not giving 100% effort in every gane he played for Buffalo. Can you honestly say the same for Willis?

 

Maybe small potatoes, but I distinctly remeber seeing Kelly and Reed drinking beers at several Bison games in the rockpile, way before all this mandatory/voluntary OTA stuff, and thinking thats the makeup of a great QB/receiver combo.

 

I cannot speak to OJ, as only remeneber the glory years.

[Kelly the Dog]

so am I to understand you are comparing Willis to Jim Kelly? Jimbo never once had the look of not giving 100% effort in every gane he played for Buffalo. Can you honestly say the same for Willis?

 

Maybe small potatoes, but I distinctly remeber seeing Kelly and Reed drinking beers at several Bison games in the rockpile, way before all this mandatory/voluntary OTA stuff, and thinking thats the makeup of a great QB/receiver combo.

 

I cannot speak to OJ, as only remeneber the glory years.

Kelly gave zero percent his first three years. He refused to come.

 

And no, there are a 1000 differences between the kind of player Kelly was and the kind of player Willis was and is. You never had to worry about Kelly not giving 100% in a game. My point is about Buffalo, and Willis allegedly hating the city, and all he wanted to do is get out. I also strongly believe that if we had a decent team we would never be complaining that Willis didn't give 100%. Is that tolerable for a player? No. Am I excusing it? No. I hate that about him. But again, OJ was pretty much like that too for a few years.

[BuffaloRebound]

I never watched OJ play, but McGahee didn't show 10% the passion that Kelly showed on the field. People remember Kelly chasing down players who intercepted his passes 10 yards out of bounds. Even if he was partying every night, on Sundays Kelly was the ultra-competitor and he'd get in his teammates' faces when they missed assignments. Bills fans loved that. McGahee acted as if he didn't give a crap and the only time he ever showed any emotion was when he called himself the best RB in the NFL. Bills fans hated that.

[Dan]

I understand what you're saying and ultimately agree with you. However, I think (or at least it seems) there's a maor difference between Willis and Kelly or OJ. Kelly/OJ had too much pride to tank it. They refused to give up and their drive to win and compete seemed to outweigh all else. Willis, on the other hand, seemed to have a different attitude. One more of.. I don't want to be here, therefore I'll play just well enough to show people I'm good.

 

 

note: I'm not convinced that Willis' attitude about being in Buffalo was as bad as some have suggested (even myself in this post). However, it does seem as though he was not always motivated to play each week, each down. And if rumors about him not studying the playbook are correct, then that says it all.

[Kelly the Dog]

I understand what you're saying and ultimately agree with you. However, I think (or at least it seems) there's a maor difference between Willis and Kelly or OJ. Kelly/OJ had too much pride to tank it. They refused to give up and their drive to win and compete seemed to outweigh all else. Willis, on the other hand, seemed to have a different attitude. One more of.. I don't want to be here, therefore I'll play just well enough to show people I'm good.

note: I'm not convinced that Willis' attitude about being in Buffalo was as bad as some have suggested (even myself in this post). However, it does seem as though he was not always motivated to play each week, each down. And if rumors about him not studying the playbook are correct, then that says it all.

OJ did tank it. He was drafted in 1969 and really didn't look interested until 1972.

 

I am not sure where those rumors of the playbook came from but Jauron flat out denied it in the press conference today, and I don't believe he is a liar. He's very diplomatic, but he just said, "No. I didn't see it."

[BuffaloRebound]

I also remember the 2004 end of the year Pittsburgh game debacle at the Ralph. I had seats right behind the Bills bench. The game was winding down and it was clear Pittsburgh was going to win. Jennings comes off the field in what he probably knew was his last game as a Bill and throws his helmet in disgust and dejectedly puts his hands over his face. McGahee comes over to console him like 'hey, it's alright man, no big deal'. Jennings wanted nothing to do with McGahee and could not be consoled. I know that was Willis's 1st full year, but that to me summed up his whole attitude. 'Hey, it's no big deal. I'll just keep doing my thing.' It might not be fair to expect the same passion out of players as Kelly had, but I know of no fanbase that is as passionate about winning as Bills fans, and rightly or wrongly McGahee didn't fit in here.

[Dan]

OJ did tank it. He was drafted in 1969 and really didn't look interested until 1972.

 

I am not sure where those rumors of the playbook came from but Jauron flat out denied it in the press conference today, and I don't believe he is a liar. He's very diplomatic, but he just said, "No. I didn't see it."

That's certainly interesting. OJ was before my time, so I'll take your word for it.

 

I'm not sure where the playbook rumor came from; but it wouldn't surprise me that the coaches don't confirm it in a PC. It's not good practice to bad mouth former employees or bosses, regardless of whether or not its true.

 

I was really hoping Willis would stay another year and things would turn around for him and the team; the new emphasis on the line would pay off and his attitude would improve. In the end, we'd see a much better Willis. However, something definitely seemed to cause a riff between the Bills and Willis. They made no bones about wanting to trade him; he made no bones about wanting more. So, for whatever reason, it just didn't seem to work for Willis here. I do have a feeling he'll do pretty well in Baltimore, but I just don't think we can conclude at the end of the year (if he does have a great year) that he would have had an equally great year in Buffalo.

[Git'er Done]

If the playbook thing was true, I would lose some respect for the coaching staff for keeping him on the field. I don't think it's true. More likely an exaggeration,like "a few times Willis needed some extra help from the sidelines with a newly installed play" (something that surely happens league wide now and then) becomes "Willis doesn't know the playbook".

I believe we would have seen more of Anthony Thomas were this rumour true.

 

I think if Willis had stayed he would have had his best year (running behind a much better line) and by the end of the season would have loved it here. Winning makes everything better.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

OJ did tank it. He was drafted in 1969 and really didn't look interested until 1972.

 

I am not sure where those rumors of the playbook came from but Jauron flat out denied it in the press conference today, and I don't believe he is a liar. He's very diplomatic, but he just said, "No. I didn't see it."

It wasn't lack of interest; it was the coming of Electricity. I saw many of those games. The only back who could have excelled behind that line would have been Jim Brown. Which does raise the question of how good Willis would be behind a superior line. However, I am not sure it matters line-wise with Willis. He seemed to lose initiative and interest after the first year or so of playing for the Bills. Remember his first successful year? He was straight-arming everyone with great success and played like a determined runner game-after-game. It's like he had something to prove coming back from the injury. As time went by, the arm appeared to be weaker and weaker, perhaps symptomatic of Willis' will.

[Peter]

I wish Jim Kelly did not have the passion for partying before Super Bowl games.

[ExWNYer]

Even here, the land of common dense, I am really kind of surprised by the concept that Willis would or could never be good in Buffalo.

 

OJ Simpson was the same way. Hated being drafted by the Bills, hated Buffalo, didn't play well, got hurt, looked disinterested, lasted four years, wanted out, and then suddenly what happened. They got a coach who got a line and gave him the ball. He soon loved Buffalo, thrived, excelled, and then played out of his head, probably the best player the Bills ever had.

 

Jim Kelly went to Miami, didn't want to play here, didn't come for a few years, struggled early, partied hard, screwed a lot of unmarried women, thought he was God. Suddenly they got a coach that surrounded him with some players and suddenly he loved Buffalo, excelled and became the face of the city. Maybe the most beloved player ever.

 

Was Willis going to repeat what OJ and Kelly did? Who knows. It's debatable. Perhaps not, or even probably not. But you can't say it wasn't going to happen.

 

Okay, maybe he doesn't have the talent of those two. Surely, he's not as purely talented as OJ. But most everyone here thinks he could be a pretty great if not dominant player if he just tried a little harder. And I am not so sorry to see him go myself if we get some decent replacements. There is an addition by subtraction factor, and I understand the new culture that Marv and Jauron are trying to bring and build here. So it's probably a good move overall, and I think that's exactly what Jauron was referring to. My issue is the idea that he just stinks and could never succeed and could never do it in Buffalo, or that he's not a Buffalo guy. Kelly and OJ weren't either for 3-4 years. He was never given a line or an offense or a team of winners. He also had some great games, and contrary to popular disbelief, worked his ass off most of the time.

 

I hope he does well, except, of course, against us.

 

Interesting and compelling take. The one major flaw with this theory is that Marv Levy was the Head Coach when Jim Kelly came to the Bills. He had first hand knowledge of Kelly and his feelings towards Buffalo. If Levy thought McGahee was a "victim of circumstance" and was poised for a similar breakout ala Jimbo's, don't you think he would have kept Willis around?

[Kelly the Dog]

Interesting and compelling take. The one major flaw with this theory is that Marv Levy was the Head Coach when Jim Kelly came to the Bills. He had first hand knowledge of Kelly and his feelings towards Buffalo. If Levy thought McGahee was a "victim of circumstance" and was poised for a similar breakout ala Jimbo's, don't you think he would have kept Willis around?

I honestly believe the coaches and GM have a completely different view of Willis from the fans, and listening to them talk today re-emphasized it. I think they think Willis is very good and could be great. I think they think he's got most of the tools and he tries very hard and his teammates like him. And I think they not only could have gone on with him this year but if this wasn't his contract year probably would not have traded him.

 

What I believe happened was a confluence of events. TD created a pretty bad culture around the team and a riff between a lot of veterans and young players and the front office and the organization and city. And Marv decided first and foremost to bring back some semblance of karma and comraderie and goodwill toward the players and fans, because that's the kind of guy he is and how he was successful before. I think he brought in Jauron because he saw himself in Jauron and they are both smart, genuinely cerebral, nice guys. So last year Marv started lopping off the old guys and bad eggs and disgruntled players and replaced them with young, fresh, go-getters to change that culture. And in a lot of ways it has worked, especially with the fans and media and a lot of the players.

 

And now they were stuck with the McGahee situation, meaning he was going to enter into his contract year, he wanted a big raise, he did a lot of things well but wasn't as elusive or agile or good out of the backfield as Fairchild may like, he didn't set a good example for the young guys because he got disinterested when they lost, hadn't bought into Buffalo yet, and collectively, they decided that they wanted to continue the purge of the attitudes, get some hungrier players, not pay the 30-40 mil extension, get a little more versatility, please the fans, not have to worry about a potential holdout, split the carries up between two kinds of backs, etc. All of those things more or less counted 10-15% of the decision. And if they could save the money and get some decent picks, now was a good time (one full year into the re-inventing) to do it.

[ExWNYer]

I honestly believe the coaches and GM have a completely different view of Willis from the fans, and listening to them talk today re-emphasized it. I think they think Willis is very good and could be great. I think they think he's got most of the tools and he tries very hard and his teammates like him. And I think they not only could have gone on with him this year but if this wasn't his contract year probably would not have traded him.

 

What I believe happened was a confluence of events. TD created a pretty bad culture around the team and a riff between a lot of veterans and young players and the front office and the organization and city. And Marv decided first and foremost to bring back some semblance of karma and comraderie and goodwill toward the players and fans, because that's the kind of guy he is and how he was successful before. I think he brought in Jauron because he saw himself in Jauron and they are both smart, genuinely cerebral, nice guys. So last year Marv started lopping off the old guys and bad eggs and disgruntled players and replaced them with young, fresh, go-getters to change that culture. And in a lot of ways it has worked, especially with the fans and media and a lot of the players.

 

And now they were stuck with the McGahee situation, meaning he was going to enter into his contract year, he wanted a big raise, he did a lot of things well but wasn't as elusive or agile or good out of the backfield as Fairchild may like, he didn't set a good example for the young guys because he got disinterested when they lost, hadn't bought into Buffalo yet, and collectively, they decided that they wanted to continue the purge of the attitudes, get some hungrier players, not pay the 30-40 mil extension, get a little more versatility, please the fans, not have to worry about a potential holdout, split the carries up between two kinds of backs, etc. All of those things more or less counted 10-15% of the decision. And if they could save the money and get some decent picks, now was a good time (one full year into the re-inventing) to do it.

 

I pretty much agree with everything you've pointed out, but I don't think that my original point above can just be dismissed when embracing your theory. I think this is a classic example of the bad outweighing the good in keeping him. Like you said, "confluence of events". Timing is everything.

[Kelly the Dog]

I pretty much agree with everything you've pointed out, but I don't think that my original point above can just be dismissed when embracing your theory. I think this is a classic example of the bad outweighing the good in keeping him. Like you said, "confluence of events". Timing is everything.

Fair enough. My point in the original post was that it took OJ and Kelly 3-4 years before they warmed to Buffalo and the city and fans. OJ by getting a new coach and line and Kelly by the other league folding. They were both 25 or older before they warmed to this place. And that's the age Willis is now. A lot of these guys change, and winning and success changes a lot of attitudes. The Bickering Bills were ridiculous. One poster above said the fans loved Kelly calling out players. Well, personally I didn't mind, but a ton of fans hated it and abused Kelly for it.

[Buftex]

Interesting and compelling take. The one major flaw with this theory is that Marv Levy was the Head Coach when Jim Kelly came to the Bills. He had first hand knowledge of Kelly and his feelings towards Buffalo. If Levy thought McGahee was a "victim of circumstance" and was poised for a similar breakout ala Jimbo's, don't you think he would have kept Willis around?

 

 

The one major flaw in your refuting Kelly's "take" is that Marv Levy was not the coach of the Bills when Jim Kelly came to the Bills. In fact, Jimbo likely palyed a key role in having the legendary Hank Bullough fired, about 9 or 10 games into his rookie season. Marv got there after J. Kelly.

 

As far as the McGahee thing, I too would have liked to see him stay, and see what he could do, with an improved offense. I think McGahee is a little misunderstood at times, and Bills fans (or is it Buffalonians) have a great ability to let their thin skin create bad situations with their sports stars. The whole Penthouse thing was so, so blown out of proportion. Having local resteraunts offering free meals to people donating McGahee jerseys, to be used as bar rags, was the height of small-time, small minded idiocy. If McGahee didn't want out of Buffalo, I am sure he did after that. Who could blame him.

 

As for Willis' "attitude", honestly, I have never heard one story, from anyone (keep in mind, I know someone who works with the Bills) saying that he had a bad attitude. We see things on the sidelines, or the camera catches a glimpse of a player on the sidelines, and we draw some pretty major conclusions.

 

I am not heart broken that McGahee is gone, just anxious to see how he is replaced. I have learned to not put too much faith in any one player...I will not label McGahee a bust, but a disappointment. How much of that is his fault, remains to be seen.

 

Ultimately, I really don't think McGahee was dealt because of bad play, or a bad attitude. I honestly think it had more to do with money. As I can't blame Willis for wanting a big contract (who wouldn't), I also can't blame the Bills for not wanting to pay him the kind of money the Ravens will pay him.

[Koufax]

Willis was dumped because Marv and Dick think the can make a better football team with the addition of those three picks and free agent signings. Chemistry and attitude count only as far as they impact football performance (which they do). We will see if they are right or wrong, but this isn't like running OJ or Kelly out of town when there was no chance that the move would have lead to being a better team (and if a deal was in place to do so, all the better...)

[I 90]

As for Willis' "attitude", honestly, I have never heard one story, from anyone (keep in mind, I know someone who works with the Bills) saying that he had a bad attitude. We see things on the sidelines, or the camera catches a glimpse of a player on the sidelines, and we draw some pretty major conclusions.

 

He was just a different kinda' cat... is that such a crime ? If he, or the team, had just a little more success... if he wasn't a threat to maybe foul up training camp with a symbolic holdout... if you could count on the contract year being more breakout than self preservation... if ... if...

 

Again, timing and circumstance. He gets a chance to prove that he is a rare talent, elsewhere. Sad.

[DC Tom]

Even here, the land of common dense, I am really kind of surprised by the concept that Willis would or could never be good in Buffalo.

 

OJ Simpson was the same way. Hated being drafted by the Bills, hated Buffalo, didn't play well, got hurt, looked disinterested, lasted four years, wanted out, and then suddenly what happened. They got a coach who got a line and gave him the ball. He soon loved Buffalo, thrived, excelled, and then played out of his head, probably the best player the Bills ever had.

 

Jim Kelly went to Miami, didn't want to play here, didn't come for a few years, struggled early, partied hard, screwed a lot of unmarried women, thought he was God. Suddenly they got a coach that surrounded him with some players and suddenly he loved Buffalo, excelled and became the face of the city. Maybe the most beloved player ever.

 

Was Willis going to repeat what OJ and Kelly did? Who knows. It's debatable. Perhaps not, or even probably not. But you can't say it wasn't going to happen.

 

Okay, maybe he doesn't have the talent of those two. Surely, he's not as purely talented as OJ. But most everyone here thinks he could be a pretty great if not dominant player if he just tried a little harder. And I am not so sorry to see him go myself if we get some decent replacements. There is an addition by subtraction factor, and I understand the new culture that Marv and Jauron are trying to bring and build here. So it's probably a good move overall, and I think that's exactly what Jauron was referring to. My issue is the idea that he just stinks and could never succeed and could never do it in Buffalo, or that he's not a Buffalo guy. Kelly and OJ weren't either for 3-4 years. He was never given a line or an offense or a team of winners. He also had some great games, and contrary to popular disbelief, worked his ass off most of the time.

 

I hope he does well, except, of course, against us.

 

OJ?

 

You do realize, of course, that you're talking about OJ to a crowd that will for the most part respond "But that was before I was born..."