Libby found guilty...

[VRWC]

This is a sad day.

 

If the outing of Plame was a crime, then Richard Armatiage NOT libby would have been on trial. As it turns out, it wasn't a crime but a political witch hunt on the Iraqi war. Patrick Fitzgerald has done this country a great diservice and is nothing more than a left wing political hack.

 

I heard a juror today saying Rove should have been on trial not Libby. What the hell does Rove have to do with a Libby giving the FBI a "false" statement? Fitzgerald put this administration a trial to a left wing juror pool and BINGO - conviction regardless of the facts.

[X. Benedict]

And Sandy Berger gets..............oh nevermind.

 

I always thought that the Berger case was interesting,

he got a $50,000 fine and was convicted of a misdemeanor, because

I think the insinuation was more valuable in an election year than

a full investigation by the justice department.

 

Of course it was that very credible Richard Clark's stuff he was

allegedly destroying, wasn't it?

 

Oh, well. Perjury is a felony.

If you can lie to a grand jury with impunity then the justice system doesn't work very well.

It doesn't matter if you are Martha, Bill, Scooter, or anyone else, if you lie to a grand jury

you should go to jail.

[VRWC]

Yes, but the point was, what were each covering up? Lying about a blow job is not as bad as lying to protect someone that outed a CIA agent. Who is hiding the bigger crime? That is important. Clinton's blow job was totally a witch hunt. It was the height of folly to have a make believe friend tape record Monica Lewinski and use that to get a president. As to Rove or Cheney, I believe all this came out of the VPs office, not from Rove. Cheney was a key figure in the trail even though he did not appear. He thought about testifying for the defense but feared cross examination and backed out.

 

 

Are you really this stupid? The defense calls the witnessess. Cheney had nothing to do with it. Plus, what would he have testified about? Was he present at Libbys FBI statement which was the only thng he was charged with?

 

O.J. NOT Guilty

Libby Guilty

 

Our trial system is the best in the world. What a joke.

[erynthered]

I always thought that the Berger case was interesting,

he got a $50,000 fine and was convicted of a misdemeanor, because

I think the insinuation was more valuable in an election year than

a full investigation by the justice department.

 

 

You may have a point. I still think he got of easy. He'll get his clearence back just in time for Hillary's swearing in.

 

Of course it was that very credible Richard Clark's stuff he was

allegedly destroying, wasn't it?

 

 

Was that ever really determined?

Oh, well. Perjury is a felony.

If you can lie to a grand jury with impunity then the justice system doesn't work very well.

It doesn't matter if you are Martha, Bill, Scooter, or anyone else, if you lie to a grand jury

you should go to jail.

 

 

I agree, no one is beyond reproach. Though it seems that, some really are.

[Taro T]

I always thought that the Berger case was interesting,

he got a $50,000 fine and was convicted of a misdemeanor, because

I think the insinuation was more valuable in an election year than

a full investigation by the justice department.

 

Of course it was that very credible Richard Clark's stuff he was

allegedly destroying, wasn't it?

 

Oh, well. Perjury is a felony.

If you can lie to a grand jury with impunity then the justice system doesn't work very well.

It doesn't matter if you are Martha, Bill, Scooter, or anyone else, if you lie to a grand jury

you should go to jail.

Won't disagree with you at all on that point.

[X. Benedict]

Our trial system is the best in the world. What a joke.

You didn't have a problem with the rest of the grand jury's investigation did you?

[GG]

Oh, well. Perjury is a felony.

If you can lie to a grand jury with impunity then the justice system doesn't work very well.

It doesn't matter if you are Martha, Bill, Scooter, or anyone else, if you lie to a grand jury

you should go to jail.

 

That it is. Justice served for the high profile cases. But is it worth it in the long term in the goal of solving the underlying crimes?

I wonder how many cops & prosecutors hate these verdicts because they give a clear roadmap to anyone to just shut up. I'm guessing that anyone who may be questioned about a role in a crime will not be as willing to give any statement, unless offered full immunity. So, with the perps clamming up, now it will be harder to get people tangentially involved with the crime to talk.

 

As an aside, the impact of the Frank Quattrone case has quickly reverberated across the financial sector. Now, by rote all documents and records older than 3 years are summarily destroyed.

[X. Benedict]

That it is. Justice served for the high profile cases. But is it worth it in the long term in the goal of solving the underlying crimes?

I wonder how many cops & prosecutors hate these verdicts because they give a clear roadmap to anyone to just shut up. I'm guessing that anyone who may be questioned about a role in a crime will not be as willing to give any statement, unless offered full immunity. So, with the perps clamming up, now it will be harder to get people tangentially involved with the crime to talk.

 

As an aside, the impact of the Frank Quattrone case has quickly reverberated across the financial sector. Now, by rote all documents and records older than 3 years are summarily destroyed.

Man, that is an interesting point.

[VRWC]

You didn't have a problem with the rest of the grand jury's investigation did you?

 

There never should have been a Grand Jury convened for anything. An unbiased Special Prosecutor would have determined if a CRIME was committed first. If so, then investigate. If not, drop the case. It doesn't matter who told what to whom if the "Outing" of Plame was not a crime; which it turns out was not. Plus, ol’ Fitzgerald knew about Armitage “Outing” Plame long before Libby even testified. Again, a witch hunt by a hungry, publicity seeking prosecutor trying to make a name for himself. Make my words here, Fitzgerald will be seeking a high public office in the Democratic Party in the near future.

 

As far as "Outing" of Plame, she was not "Outed" as the press would have you believe. She was not covert, period.

[Kelly the Dog]

There never should have been a Grand Jury convened for anything. An unbiased Special Prosecutor would have determined if a CRIME was committed first. If so, then investigate. If not, drop the case. It doesn't matter who told what to whom if the "Outing" of Plame was not a crime; which it turns out was not. Plus, ol’ Fitzgerald knew about Armitage “Outing” Plame long before Libby even testified. Again, a witch hunt by a hungry, publicity seeking prosecutor trying to make a name for himself. Make my words here, Fitzgerald will be seeking a high public office in the Democratic Party in the near future.

 

As far as "Outing" of Plame, she was not "Outed" as the press would have you believe. She was not covert, period.

My reading of it is that a crime was committed, and an evildoing was committed, by a host of people in concert, but that Fitzgerald knew that he couldn't get a conviction for that crime or evildoing, so he went to trial with what he could get a conviction for, a different crime of perjury. Which is what happened. People can argue the merits of whether or not the outing was a crime or not. I think Fitzgerald thought it was and shouldn't go unpunished. That is what prosecutors do. And he is certainly not a left-wing hack. But what he did allowed the real evildoers to get off and a lesser evildoer to be convicted, although Libby knew he was covering up for them and committed a crime knowing it was a crime.

[RkFast]

Yes, but the point was, what were each covering up? Lying about a blow job is not as bad as lying to protect someone that outed a CIA agent. Who is hiding the bigger crime? That is important. Clinton's blow job was totally a witch hunt. It was the height of folly to have a make believe friend tape record Monica Lewinski and use that to get a president. As to Rove or Cheney, I believe all this came out of the VPs office, not from Rove. Cheney was a key figure in the trail even though he did not appear. He thought about testifying for the defense but feared cross examination and backed out.

 

Lying under oath is lying under oath. There is no difference. There is no "fibber scale" when it comes to perjury, measuring how "bad" the lie is.

 

Regarding the "outing", Im STILL trying to fiugre out how a woman who drove to CIA Headquarters in a flashy convertible with the top down, walking into the building's front door day after day, got "outed" as an agent.

[DC Tom]

Regarding the "outing", Im STILL trying to fiugre out how a woman who drove to CIA Headquarters in a flashy convertible with the top down, walking into the building's front door day after day, got "outed" as an agent.

 

Because there's a difference between working at Langley, and working in the field for Langley. Just because she drove to the CIA every day, it doesn't mean it was common knowledge that she was once upon a time recruiting agents in Bulgaria or whatever.

[RkFast]

Because there's a difference between working at Langley, and working in the field for Langley. Just because she drove to the CIA every day, it doesn't mean it was common knowledge that she was once upon a time recruiting agents in Bulgaria or whatever.

 

I figured.

 

But wouldnt participants in covert ops take precautions stateside? Otherwise I could picture the Chinese, Soviets, etc. with a car permantely parked outside the gates watching who comes and goes.

[X. Benedict]

There never should have been a Grand Jury convened for anything. An unbiased Special Prosecutor would have determined if a CRIME was committed first. If so, then investigate. If not, drop the case. It doesn't matter who told what to whom if the "Outing" of Plame was not a crime; which it turns out was not. Plus, ol’ Fitzgerald knew about Armitage “Outing” Plame long before Libby even testified. Again, a witch hunt by a hungry, publicity seeking prosecutor trying to make a name for himself. Make my words here, Fitzgerald will be seeking a high public office in the Democratic Party in the near future.

 

As far as "Outing" of Plame, she was not "Outed" as the press would have you believe. She was not covert, period.

 

Now let me ask you who was sworn in first - the grand jury - or the special prosecutor?

[DC Tom]

I figured.

 

But wouldnt participants in covert ops take precautions stateside? Otherwise I could picture the Chinese, Soviets, etc. with a car permantely parked outside the gates watching who comes and goes.

 

The CIA takes a dim view of people who hang around near their entrance, particularly since that incident about a decade ago where some Pakistani machine-gunned the traffic going in. I have a friend who was once interrogated for four hours because he made a wrong turn and ended up at the gate.

 

I'm pretty sure anyone who stopped anywhere any of the entrances and started snapping pictures of the comings and goings wouldn't be there for long. Hell, it's a federal crime now to take pictures on the Pentagon grounds (and you can get pretty close; I and a couple thousand other people used to use the parking lot as a shortcut around traffic - I moved since, I assume the couple thousand others still do). I can't imagine it's any different at the CIA.

[Willyville Guy]

Patrick Fitzgerald has done this country a great diservice and is nothing more than a left wing political hack.

 

Fitzgerald's career as a Republican and a well-respected prosecutor contradicts that accusation. Among other things, he mounted a frontal assault on the Daley administration in the "hired truck" scandal. He generally enjoys bipartisan support in Chicago for insisting that his job as a prosecutor is to "follow the evidence no matter where it takes me," which is what he appears to have done here. As noted above in passing, this man is no left wing hack.

[bobblehead]

She was not covert, period.

 

 

That settles it, then. Thanks!

[Joey Balls]

Getting a blow job in the Oval Office.

Oh, wait...wrong absurd witch hunt...sorry...

 

 

It surprises (and dissapoints me) that you would try to draw some sort of comparison to Clinton's lies and this current administration's lies and deceit.

 

As a poster DC Tom you are the only one I can detect that isn't partisan here, definetely an admirable trait.

 

 

At the same time soldiers are being set up for road side fodder because an op-ed piece in the NY Times by a gadfly had the unfortunate timing of coming out and telling the truth, thus making him and his wife the subject of ridicule from the conservative side.

 

 

Yes Val Plame was a covert operative at the time.

 

 

Given the right wing conservative tilt of this board (way out of the mainstream of America) I dare anyone here to post links that will say Valerie Plame wasn't.

 

 

I'll hold my breath until then.

[Wacka]

It surprises (and dissapoints me) that you would try to draw some sort of comparison to Clinton's lies and this current administration's lies and deceit.

 

As a poster DC Tom you are the only one I can detect that isn't partisan here, definetely an admirable trait.

At the same time soldiers are being set up for road side fodder because an op-ed piece in the NY Times by a gadfly had the unfortunate timing of coming out and telling the truth, thus making him and his wife the subject of ridicule from the conservative side.

Yes Val Plame was a covert operative at the time.

Given the right wing conservative tilt of this board (way out of the mainstream of America) I dare anyone here to post links that will say Valerie Plame wasn't.

I'll hold my breath until then.

 

Here is a Washington Post article written by the PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE LAW.

 

The Plame Game; Was This a Crime?

[DC Tom]

It surprises (and dissapoints me) that you would try to draw some sort of comparison to Clinton's lies and this current administration's lies and deceit.

 

As a poster DC Tom you are the only one I can detect that isn't partisan here, definetely an admirable trait.

At the same time soldiers are being set up for road side fodder because an op-ed piece in the NY Times by a gadfly had the unfortunate timing of coming out and telling the truth, thus making him and his wife the subject of ridicule from the conservative side.

Yes Val Plame was a covert operative at the time.

Given the right wing conservative tilt of this board (way out of the mainstream of America) I dare anyone here to post links that will say Valerie Plame wasn't.

I'll hold my breath until then.

 

Oh, shut the !@#$ up. I'm drawing a comparison between one media induced circus and another. Libby and Clinton were both accused of lying about not doing anything illegal and vilified for it. Libby was convicted, Clinton was impeached. Both are bull sh--, the product of ridiculous political witch hunts gone way to far.

 

And don't give me any sh-- about the Plame leak. I can find more damaging secret information that was leaked TODAY that no one cares about and no one will be convicted for leaking. The only reason Plame is an issue is because it's politically expedient, and I have NO respect for political expedience, no matter who it's aimed at.