Building the OL through the draft versus FA

[Kelly the Dog]

Yes he was, along with Don Smith (another trivia answer) I didn't think Reggie was Plan B. Plan B's were usually 2nd tier guys. I think a special free agent class was created just for Reggie after he won the lawsuit vs Eagles.

And Tasker.

[Bill from NYC]

Instead, I am pleased to see us attempting to replicate the strategy which JMac implemented well for NYG in 2001 where he built a line capable of making the SB using FA as its base. The really good news is that this effort actually represents a better set of talent than the NYG JMac crew as it really utilized moderate amd lower grade FAs like Glenn Parker and Dusty Z while both in terms of hitting their prime pick-ups like Dockery and a base relying on UDFA acquired prospects like Peters, we may be using FA to acquire an OL which will last a few year.

JMac has used FA to get lead talents with some good prospects and used our draft to get some good potential back-ups and I am psyched.

 

Let's not get crazy.

 

The draft is not the ONLY way to build an OL. I don't recall anyone ever saying this. It IS however the most important way in terms of getting a good to great LT. Look around the league PG, and please point out the dominant Left Tackles that teams picked up either in free agency or a trade.

Right, there are none.

Before the big cap increase, guys like Jonas Jennings and Jeff Backus were signing "Dockery" type deals to stay with their original teams. Jones and Pace were "franchised" for years because teams won't let these guys go. They simply cannot because they are SO hard to replace.

Trades? I can recall 2 trades involving top LTs. One was for Roaf (under very odd circumstances), the other was the Dickerson trade in which Leon Gray was involved. In other words, it aint happening.

 

Sometimes I wonder if people understand just how lucky we got wrt Jason Peters. Just a couple of years ago, he was an undrafted walk-on, oversized TE who made a good play on special teams. Now, he looks as if he has the potential to join the elite at the LT position, and it might not take him long to arrive.

Yes, we got him by your preferred method. The only problem is that it took us more than 15 years to replace Wolford, unless you count Fina for a couple of years (I for one do not).

 

In any event, I think of drafting OL the same way I think of drafting QBs, which is to draft a lot of them, and if you see one you truly think can be dominant, scoop him up early.

I am thinking that most GMs would agree.

[Pyrite Gal]

I actually reach the same conclusion, that the draft is not the ONLY way to build an OL that you do from the other way around.

 

Clearly there are real world examples like Pace and the NE Pats that show the great (and for the most part dominating) importance of drafting good, very good, and occasionally great OL players and signing your own to long term deals.

 

However, what I think has happened is that folks get so caught up in advocating a position, that their posts are sometimes easily read (or flat out claim in some internet moments of maintaining a doctrine though little in life and nothing in the NFL) is always absolutely true.

 

Reality simply does not work that way. Some folks seem to want to make the claim that TD's big fault is that he did not value the OL and the draft highly enough, but ignore the fact named Mike Williams. Or make a sharp claim that our problem is that we did not resign our own and thus ignore little facts like Jonas Jennings or OL being a position that TD drafted every single year he was here and sometimes two in a draft.

 

Not wasting a bunch of money on the injury prone Jennings (as SF did) and not throwing more money after Mike Williams were among the smart things TD led the team to doing after making bad choices in picking them.

 

These arguments about what is the"best" way to build an OL simply devolved into meaninglessness because of reality that the TD led Bills had simply lost the ability to use the draft as a base mechanism for building the OL because:

 

1. TD hired an HC in GW who had no real offensive chops or ability. He primarily valued having an HC he could be certain would not run him out of town like Cowher did so he hired a man with great D abilities, and wonderful lists which made him a good Administrative Asst. but if push came to shove TD could beat him.

2. Even worse, GW was insecure about this and was willing to hire an incompetent OL guy he could trust, Vinky as the position coach and then when he was so bad he had to can him (just as he had to can the still learning not ready for OCdom, Kragthorpe).

 

These two factors meant that as seen by our poor OL draft choices the Bills were simply incapable under the GW regime of picking good OL players.

 

By the time JMac arrived and the Bills were able to pick at least reasonable OL players in the draft (though the jury is still out on Preston and the rest) we are at least capable of training players up (as seen in Peters and perhaps Pennington). the die was cast and the Bills were well on their way to 7 years without a playoff appearance and the needed a win quickly and had multiple needs so that the FA approach is really the only realistic option for this team despite the fact that drafting. developing and then extending OL players is the way to do this in a more perfect world.

 

Your arguments for drafting are great theory, they just have little to do with the current Bills reality.

[jester43]

who else clicked on this thread only to see how long the original post was?

[Chilly]

who else clicked on this thread only to see how long the original post was?

 

Pyrate/FFS' posts are always long, but usually good reads, unlike a lot of posters.

 

I am of the opinion that people who focus on methods of acquisition are overplaying it somewhat. What matters is how well a player is suited for the system that you are trying to run. If the Bills believe that all three guys fit their system, what difference does it make between free agency and the draft?

 

The other thing too is it also depends on how much patience you want to have building that position. The draft seemingly takes more time, given young players needing development and a limited number of picks, than already-ripened free agents do.

[Dan]

I think there's a few points here that several people are dancing with. Do you build the OL through the draft or through FA? That's the primary question, and I would offer that the proper answer is... Yes.

 

I think there are examples of teams building a solid OL both ways. Although I do agree with Bill, it seems the best (perhaps most assured is a better way to put it) way to get a stud LT is through the draft. Clearly either way you go, you have to have good coaching and good talent evaluators.

 

But, I think the tandem question here is... How quickly do you want that solid OL? Building through the draft is a longer process, because the players will take several years to fully develop. However, the idea is that a 3 or 4 year FA has already gone through that learning curve and can contribute in his first year with the team.

 

I think for the Bills' purposes, building through FA was the best option. We have a decent QB going into his 4th year, a great WR, adequate back up receivers, and a good RB (provided he stays or we trade for someone comparable). So, we need a sold OL next year, not in 3 years. Hence, Marv gets alot of credit (IMO) for recognizing our need, recognizing the best way to address it, and paying the money to the players to get them here.

 

Either way you decide to build the line, I think you have to commit to it and that was TDs failure. He got a few picks on the line. He got a few FAs. But, he never said the OL is a priority and I'm going to draft 2 or 3 guys a year until we get our starters. Or we're going to pay top dollar and bring in quality FAs and get our starters. He dabbled in both with no clear direction and the results were painful to watch. Marv, on the other hand, stuck his finger in the dike last season with a few guys; allowed McNally to shuffle them around and see what we had. Then he went out this year and brought in the guys he (or someone) wanted and the team needed to finally progress the line. With luck, the talent evaluators did their job and we'll see a much better line performance next season. What should that tell most people? That Marv is trying to field a team that will be in the playoffs next year, not in 2 or 3 years.

[apuszczalowski]

I think there's a few points here that several people are dancing with. Do you build the OL through the draft or through FA? That's the primary question, and I would offer that the proper answer is... Yes.

Its not just the o-line, its how you build the entire team. The Draft is used to build the team. You bring in young players to groom into future players. Free Agency is used to fill holes and get that missing piece to the puzzle.

 

Teams that build through the Draft usually take time to get good, but are good for a while, Where teams that bank on FA to build a team are often flash in the pan teams that have one or 2 good years before they go back to rebuilding.

 

Theres a balance to building a winning team. Its something I have noticed marv has been following while re-building the Bills, and its why I will give him time and the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the moves he is making. I don't expect a dominating team right away cause I know it takes time to build a team that will be good for a long time.

[Dan]

Its not just the o-line, its how you build the entire team. The Draft is used to build the team. You bring in young players to groom into future players. Free Agency is used to fill holes and get that missing piece to the puzzle.

 

Teams that build through the Draft usually take time to get good, but are good for a while, Where teams that bank on FA to build a team are often flash in the pan teams that have one or 2 good years before they go back to rebuilding.

 

Theres a balance to building a winning team. Its something I have noticed marv has been following while re-building the Bills, and its why I will give him time and the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the moves he is making. I don't expect a dominating team right away cause I know it takes time to build a team that will be good for a long time.

I completely agree. That's been my assesment of Marv's rebuilding plan as well. He's brought in some good draft picks that'll be future stars for years to come. While trying to mix in a few FA's that are past that initial learning curve period and should provide us with an immediate turn around on production. He's defintitely holding true to this plan again this year.

 

Look at our OL (just to keep this on the point of the original post); we have sevveral young guys that are still learning, but now we have a few FAs that'll hopefully propel us forward. Just as Dockery and Fowler are slipping due to age, these 2nd year guys will be in a good position to take over. It's a well mananged, well thought out plan so far.

 

The only caveat is injuries and busts due to poor evaluators. Hopefully, our talent guys know what they're doing with Dockery and Walker. I like the moves, alot. But it'll probably be mid season before I say the moes were truly the right ones.