How does Okoye make sense?

[Nanker]

When did Carriker switch positions to become a DT.? He was a DE last I heard.

 

Furthermore, we are not at liberty to draft best athlete/player available. We must get players to fill our needs. LB, CB, and DT are our primary needs. If Ted Ginn Jr was available at 12, would you select him because we're thin at WR? You most certainly would not.

 

We do not have the luxury of drafting best player available. There is no LB worthy of being picked #12 in the draft. I'd rather they drop down in the first and pick up something in the second than pick a guy early because they want him.

 

 

Me too. You're absolutely right. I meant to type Tank Tyler but not at 12.

 

That depends on who else is on the board at that time. It also depends on what happens through the rest of the FA period. IF we waltz into The Draft without having addressed the LB, CB, DT needs, Marv will be forced to address them there - again putting us in a bind because the best available athlete will probably go by the wayside. I could see Marv picking Ginn if he's there at 12. We need a good #2 receiver.

 

I absolutely disagree with you on not having the luxury or liberty to draft the best available athlete.

That's why we've been on the trash heap for so long. I'll agree with you that no LB this year is worthy of the 12th pick and certainly not Willis. Lawrence Timmons is ranked a lot higher than Willis on most boards. But there seems to be a love fest brewing here for him.

 

Back to the point of the original post I think Okoye has so much upside potential that I for one would not hesitate to pick him if he were there at 12. If it becomes a log jam at 1 Technique DT, then trade McCargo to the Jints. They're the ones that coveted him last year.

[BillsVet]

Me too. You're absolutely right. I meant to type Tank Tyler but not at 12.

 

That depends on who else is on the board at that time. It also depends on what happens through the rest of the FA period. IF we waltz into The Draft without having addressed the LB, CB, DT needs, Marv will be forced to address them there - again putting us in a bind because the best available athlete will probably go by the wayside. I could see Marv picking Ginn if he's there at 12. We need a good #2 receiver.

 

I absolutely disagree with you on not having the luxury or liberty to draft the best available athlete.

That's why we've been on the trash heap for so long. I'll agree with you that no LB this year is worthy of the 12th pick and certainly not Willis. Lawrence Timmons is ranked a lot higher than Willis on most boards. But there seems to be a love fest brewing here for him.

 

Back to the point of the original post I think Okoye has so much upside potential that I for one would not hesitate to pick him if he were there at 12. If it becomes a log jam at 1 Technique DT, then trade McCargo to the Jints. They're the ones that coveted him last year.

 

 

If Ginn is there at 12, I should have said this differently. Ginn is an outstanding speed guy. But we don't take him 12 because he doesn't fit with our priorities. I'm all in favor of taking Okoye, he's got that potential everyone is talking about and has great character and an excellent work ethic. He is young, but someone who will improve. But if he's not available, do we stay at 12 and simply take the best player available? No. This is why Calvin Johnson, despite being a freak of nature and the best athlete in the draft, will not get selected until probably 4th overall. OAK, DET and CLE all have more pressing needs. That is if no trades occur.

 

Without Okoye, a trade down is in order, unless they've got something on a player who can contribute quickly. I'm not a fan of Tank Tyler, because even though he put up 40 something reps at the bench press, his off-field issues are enormous. He will not fit in with Marv's vision of the Bills.

[Nanker]

If Ginn is there at 12, I should have said this differently. Ginn is an outstanding speed guy. But we don't take him 12 because he doesn't fit with our priorities. I'm all in favor of taking Okoye, he's got that potential everyone is talking about and has great character and an excellent work ethic. He is young, but someone who will improve. But if he's not available, do we stay at 12 and simply take the best player available? No. This is why Calvin Johnson, despite being a freak of nature and the best athlete in the draft, will not get selected until probably 4th overall. OAK, DET and CLE all have more pressing needs. That is if no trades occur.

 

Without Okoye, a trade down is in order, unless they've got something on a player who can contribute quickly. I'm not a fan of Tank Tyler, because even though he put up 40 something reps at the bench press, his off-field issues are enormous. He will not fit in with Marv's vision of the Bills.

 

Fine. So will you get hysterical along with me if he picks Hall at 12 and doesn't trade down?

[Kelly the Dog]

Not saying we should necessarily draft him, but he could play tackle...

4. Nebraska defensive Adam Carriker entered Senior Bowl week ranked higher than any other player on this list of Risers. However, he was viewed as a prospect who only fit certain schemes, as the career defensive end seemingly lacked the burst for the edge or the power for the inside of the 4-3 alignment at 6-6, 292 pounds. With only a handful of teams running the 3-4 defense and with the end position in this scheme considered more of a space-filler than a playmaker, Carriker's prospects for rising seem limited. But Carriker showed impressive burst off the edge, consistently pressuring the passer. Carriker also played so strong at the point of attack that teams late in the week were talking of a potential move to defensive tackle. Entering the week, Carriker was viewed as a one-dimensional prospect. By the end of the week, he had proven himself to be one of the more versatile defensive line prospects in recent memory.

 

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9961592

[BillsVet]

Fine. So will you get hysterical along with me if he picks Hall at 12 and doesn't trade down?

 

I would understand the need, but not the priority of the pick. The Cover-2 gets beat with your opponent running the ball down your throat. Now, Hall would fit with the type of zone coverage scheme they employ, but I'm more concerned about the run defense than the pass at this point. That said, neither really makes me want to jump for joy.

 

If Hall goes 12, or another CB for that matter, I'd be slightly disappointed. And I'd wonder what would happen to Youboty, whom I'm told is going to be good. What does that say about him?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Furthermore, we are not at liberty to draft best athlete/player available. We must get players to fill our needs. LB, CB, and DT are our primary needs. If Ted Ginn Jr was available at 12, would you select him because we're thin at WR? You most certainly would not.

 

We do not have the luxury of drafting best player available. There is no LB worthy of being picked #12 in the draft. I'd rather they drop down in the first and pick up something in the second than pick a guy early because they want him.

I agree that if the draft was tomorrow, we wouldn't be able to go best player available. But that fact is a moot point, because there's plenty of time before the draft. I expect the Bills to add a 1-technique DT (Ian Scott?) and a veteran cornerback (possibly re-signing Kiwaukee) through free agency. These two moves would be pretty cheap and easy, but would take us from being forced to draft a position to being able to select the best player available, which increases our chances of successfully drafting an impact player. The more players you can choose from, the more likely you are to pick a great one.

 

One of your positions of need is linebacker. Why must we draft a linebacker in the 1st round? Our current linebacking core features Takeo Spikes on one side...last season, Spikes was only at full strength for one play, and that one play was a sack on Tom Brady and a forced fumble that went for a touchdown opening day. After that, it was an injury-riddled season for him. There have been cases of players with injuries similar to the one that ended Spikes' 2005 season that didn't get back to full strength until their second year back (Julian Peterson). There's nothing wrong with seeing what Spikes can do for us this year. Our other outside 'backer at the moment is Keith Ellison, who was on a level of play clearly above his 6th round draft status. He has the type of speed and athleticism that this system calls for from it's OLBs, and he should improve with his second season both in the NFL and in the Tampa 2.

 

But still...don't trust Spikes? Not comfortable with Ellison? Want another option in the middle, besides Crowell? The draft is more than one round! There's no reason why we must take a LB in the 1st.

 

And then your next position of need is DT. Agreed, the team as it stands now must add a defensive tackle, but a solid rotation guy (probably a free agent) for the 1-tech position to replace Tim Anderson will do. Williams showed potential playing on the nose last year, and most agree he can stand to benefit from adding some strength this offseason. McCargo also showed some flashes just before his injury, and its unfortunate he had to miss that time. But you drafted these guys for a reason, right? You have to give these guys a chance to develop as they enter their 2nd NFL (and 2nd Tampa 2) season. It wouldn't be so terrible to go into the season with McCargo and Tripplett at the 3-tech, with Williams and a solid free agent on the nose.

 

As for corner, I agree, replacing Clements is an area of concern. Last year, the pass defense was ugly until they changed the system and allowed Nate to play more man-to-man against the opposition's #1 WR. But here's a newsflash: even if we were to address CB in the 1st round, in all likelihood that player would NOT be able to match Clements' role in the defense. So we're forced to hope that our zone pass defense will be improved this year. That means the coaches must find a way to get the most out of Terrence McGee (who struggled last year) and Ashton Youboty. Youboty hasn't played much to this point, but he's the physical, smart, good-tackling corner that can potentially fit into the system. And then you can bring in any one of a number of second-tier CBs from free agency, whether its re-signing Kiwaukee, or bringing in Nick Harper, or any of a bunch of other guys out there. Cornerback should still be addressed at some point in this draft, but again, I see no reason why it must be with a 1st round pick.

 

This isn't to say we can't take a player from one of these positions...I've got no problem if the Bills take Patrick Willis, or Revis, or Okoye. But these positions aren't so awful that we're forced into it. If our braintrust is high on the likes of Levi Brown, Marshawn Lynch, Dwayne Jarrett, Jamaal Anderson...there's nothing wrong with them pulling the trigger. I'm open to anyone who doesn't play quarterback or safety.

 

Its important to remember that free agency isn't over, and the draft is more than one round. I'm also definitely open to a trade-down, adding picks and allowing us to solidify multiple positions.

[BillsVet]

I don't see Ian Scott as the 1-technique answer, no matter how cheap he is. His play wasn't stellar in Chicago last season. K.Thomas is strictly a nickel back IMO. Sure, they're on the cheap, but are these guys answers to the problems at hand? Probably not.

 

Saying Spikes was at full strength for one play is non-sense. Sorry to be negative, but he was not 100% the whole season. Not even sure he'll ever be the old Takeo again. That said, shopping him does not bode well for his status with the Bills. I'm sure that didn't go over well in the Spikes household.

 

As for Kyle Williams, I'm not sure he has much upside left. This is a guy who already benched 545 in college or something. Adding strength is easier said than done. I'm not convinced he's more than a good backup.

 

And no one said any CB in Round 1 will compare to NC. That's preposterous to think we'd find a guy who could step in and perform at his level. Youboty is basically a rookie, having played so little. Expectations for him shouldn't be much more than for a 2007 draft pick. He's the wild card in all this, his off-season performance might enable Buffalo to go elsewhere in the draft.

 

I don't think Levi Brown is going to be called by Goodell on 28 April. If they're going anything but DT, LB, or CB in round 1, then DJ was blowing smoke when he said defense would be the priority in the draft.

 

No, Free Agency isn't over...but moves among NFL teams are slowing down. And I don't think Buffalo will be after the marquee types the rest of the way

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I know you want to trade down...but what if we can't? Why can't we consider all positions at #12?

 

I don't see Ian Scott as the 1-technique answer, no matter how cheap he is.

Okay, so who IS the 1-technique answer? Who are we locked into so much that we can't consider other positions, like OL, WR, DE, etc.?

 

 

Saying Spikes was at full strength for one play is non-sense. Sorry to be negative, but he was not 100% the whole season. Not even sure he'll ever be the old Takeo again. That said, shopping him does not bode well for his status with the Bills. I'm sure that didn't go over well in the Spikes household.

Again, who is so much better? As I said, I do realize you want to trade down, probably to the range where we'd be able to draft the crazy name from Penn State or Timmons...but if we can't trade down and are drafting from 12th, again, who are we so in love with that we must make a pick at this position and can't look at the entire draft board?

 

 

And no one said any CB in Round 1 will compare to NC. That's preposterous to think we'd find a guy who could step in and perform at his level. Youboty is basically a rookie, having played so little. Expectations for him shouldn't be much more than for a 2007 draft pick. He's the wild card in all this, his off-season performance might enable Buffalo to go elsewhere in the draft.

Right. It doesn't really make sense for a Tampa 2 team to draft a CB 12th overall anyway...but even if we did, that draft pick wouldn't be any more of a sure thing than Youboty is. You realize this, and yet you still think we must pick from one of these positions in the 1st?

 

On the contrary to what you stated, I don't think there's any reason why we can't pick the best player available. If we get a hard-on for Jarrett, Lynch, Anderson, Brown, or anybody else...and really think one of these guys is the type of player that will make an impact in the NFL...why can't we draft them?

 

 

If they're going anything but DT, LB, or CB in round 1, then DJ was blowing smoke when he said defense would be the priority in the draft.

Can't defense be the priority without being the 1st rounder? If we drafted offense in the 1st and defense in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th and 7th...what would you say our draft emphasized?

[tennesseeboy]

Okoye is a flat out great DT. At nose at 318 or 320 he can do everything Pat Williams ever did only quicker. At 305 he may be the greatest 3 that ever played the game. Assuming he lasts til our pick (more and more unlikely) picking him is the biggest no brainer since we picked OJ Simpson or Bruce Smith.

[BillsVet]

I know you want to trade down...but what if we can't? Why can't we consider all positions at #12?

Okay, so who IS the 1-technique answer? Who are we locked into so much that we can't consider other positions, like OL, WR, DE, etc.?

Again, who is so much better? As I said, I do realize you want to trade down, probably to the range where we'd be able to draft the crazy name from Penn State or Timmons...but if we can't trade down and are drafting from 12th, again, who are we so in love with that we must make a pick at this position and can't look at the entire draft board?

Right. It doesn't really make sense for a Tampa 2 team to draft a CB 12th overall anyway...but even if we did, that draft pick wouldn't be any more of a sure thing than Youboty is. You realize this, and yet you still think we must pick from one of these positions in the 1st?

 

On the contrary to what you stated, I don't think there's any reason why we can't pick the best player available. If we get a hard-on for Jarrett, Lynch, Anderson, Brown, or anybody else...and really think one of these guys is the type of player that will make an impact in the NFL...why can't we draft them?

Can't defense be the priority without being the 1st rounder? If we drafted offense in the 1st and defense in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th and 7th...what would you say our draft emphasized?

 

 

The strength of the Cover-2 is up the middle. Getting middle of the road players to play DT, MLB, and S is like chasing your tail. You'll never get what you're after. Chicago had Harris and Johnson at the DT spots and Urlacher being the beneficiary, though a bonafide playmaker. Ian Scott isn't the answer. Marv knows being able to run and stopping the run are absolutely necessary to win. And I believe we've already addressed the OL. As for WR, Price and Reed both have decent size deals. Don't think Marv does much beyond a 4th round or below pick at WR. Keep in mind, DJ had about 4 30+ point games in Chicago during his 5 seasons there. He's a defense first coach. Last season's draft I'm sure he had a great deal of input and curried a lot of favor with Marv.

 

Okoye seems to be what the Bills need. That's my admittedly non-NFL personel guy opinion. If he's gone, well there's more DT's available later. The answer at the 1 technique is someone who can hold blockers down while the 3 penetrates. Guys like Anderson either weren't strong or big enough to do that. Larry Tripplett wasn't freed up enough to make stops and opposing running backs ran wild. I don't like the options available in FA.

 

At 12, should we not be able to trade down, there are a host of options. I think there are some talented CB's out there, but we'd be telling Youboty he's persona non grata. Posluzsny and Timmons are options. Jon Beason in Round 2 might be there. There are some good LB's in the 2007 draft.

 

I don't have my heart set on one guy. I do indeed look at the entire draft board. Zeroing in on one guy, if last year was an indication, is not the correct move. You can't let emotion and lust for a player get in the way of making a rational decision. The Bills front office has backup plans should one of their guys get selected.

 

Spikes may have experience, and the Cover-2 demands people get into the right spots. But at which point does Spikes slower play become a disadvantage? The SLB doesn't need the speed like the WLB, sure, but you've got to get to the ball carrier too. Spikes was invisible in many games last season. And saying he wasn't in on 3rd down situations isn't an excuse there. Is his cap hit worth it? I don't think so. Just my opinion.

 

I think CB must receive another pick at some point because we've got very few on the current roster. Beyond McGee, Youboty, the recently signed Jabari Greer, what else do we have. Free Agency is a few days old, but that's not much to go on. Still, I'd leave it until Round 3 or below. Perhaps pick up a player who can bridge the gap until hopefully Youboty can start.

 

The fact remains your first round pick, unless he's a QB, should be someone who is capable of starting their first season. Not sitting the bench, or coming in on certain plays. I don't advocate best player available because what if Quinn is there at 12. Do you take him even though he could make an impact next season? No, because you've got your starting QB. You draft need, and if need isn't worth it at your pick, you find a trade to your liking. But you're always considering who's out there as well.