Ghosts of Abu Ghraib

[JoeFerguson]

It's a documentary directed by Rory Kennedy, RFK's daughter. I haven't watched the whole thing, but it basically espouses the whole idea that the people who were implicated were just scapegoats and that Rumsfeld and Company are really the ones to blame. It actually has interviews with many of the soldiers who posed in the pictures. As I watched it, I couldn't believe how angry I was getting over the fact that no one seemed to address the fact that posing jokingly for a photograph with a dead body is an absolutely retarded thing to do. The documentary essentially sympathizes with these idiots who posed for and took the photographs.

 

Regardless of the conspiracy theories and the violations of the Geneva Convention, why can't the media address the more fundamental question posed by this scandal.....WHY ARE PEOPLE SO STUPID, and more importantly, WHY DO SMART PEOPLE ALWAYS SEEM TO MAKE EXCUSES FOR STUPIDITY AND STUPID PEOPLE?

 

I don't know about any of you, but I have absolutely no sympathy for idiots like Lynndie England. In the documentary they interviewed Sabrina Harman, another woman who posed with tortured prisoners, and she explained her reasoning behind posing for the pictures. She spoke like a brain dead idiot, with an unbelievable look of emptiness in her eyes. There really was no reason behind it, nor did she really seem to think that she did anything wrong. I did not feel bad for her in the least bit. If she wasn't caught doing this, she probably would be the type of person to be caught on a surveillance camera stealing powdered donuts while she worked the graveyard shift at 7-11. Or maybe the type of person who would post photographs of her and her underage boyfriend having sex and smoking pot on her myspace profile.

 

Again, what really made my blood boil was the fact that this documentary was meant to try to make me feel bad for these bozos. I feel bad for the prisoners who were tortured, but I certainly don't feel bad for the people being photographed doing the torturing and I don't buy the excuse that they were just "following orders". Following orders to torture, maybe, but were they ordered to photograph every instance of torture? Were they ordered to have big, stupid, smiles on their faces while they gave the thumbs up next to naked prisoners? I DON'T THINK SO!

[ExiledInIllinois]

Or maybe the kinda of idiots that drive like jerks everyday to assume their role in society as productive workers... Or God knows whatever they call gainful employment?

 

I feel no sympathy for them either...

[Wacka]

What makes my blood boil is people like you who think that was torture. I've seen worse in frat initiations. As BiB said, they should have wired up car batteries to their balls and turned up the juice slowlty to get them to talk.

[X. Benedict]

What makes my blood boil is people like you who think that was torture. I've seen worse in frat initiations. As BiB said, they should have wired up car batteries to their balls and turned up the juice slowlty to get them to talk.

 

The real problem is forever exposed.

 

We just did not go far enough.

[chicot]

What makes my blood boil is people like you who think that was torture. I've seen worse in frat initiations. As BiB said, they should have wired up car batteries to their balls and turned up the juice slowlty to get them to talk.

 

Why stop there? Why not bring back popular medieval torture methods such as the rack or iron maiden?

[Helmet_hair]

You know, at this point I don’t give a crap about what happens to any of the Iraq people, Iranians or any Muslim country. I don’t care if they live or die. The well being of my family comes first then my country. Arabs and Persians are way at the bottom of the list behind my dogs.

[X. Benedict]

You know, at this point I don’t give a crap about what happens to any of the Iraq people, Iranians or any Muslim country. I don’t care if they live or die. The well being of my family comes first then my country. Arabs and Persians are way at the bottom of the list behind my dogs.

 

See Darin's thread. The war to liberate dogs is already on.

[JoeFerguson]

What makes my blood boil is people like you who think that was torture. I've seen worse in frat initiations. As BiB said, they should have wired up car batteries to their balls and turned up the juice slowlty to get them to talk.

 

I wasn't really trying to bring up a debate about whether or not it was torture.

 

I wanted to talk about stupid people.

[RkFast]

Or maybe the kinda of idiots that drive like jerks everyday to assume their role in society as productive workers... Or God knows whatever they call gainful employment?

 

I feel no sympathy for them either...

 

A bunch of "little Eichmanns", right?

 

Thanks, HBO for my daily dose of American self-loathing and Bush Bashing. Next time an IED kills five soldiers along with 20 innocent Iraqi women and children, Ill remember to REdirect my "outrage" to the fact some Iraqi man had to walk around with a pair of underwear on his head or had to have cold rice pilaf while in GTMO.

 

Yeah, yeah....I know.."we started it." Just like when Achmeninutjob tries to implement a blockade across the Strait of Hormuz THAT will be our fault, too...becuase...ya know..."we provoked him."

[Alaska Darin]

Prisons aren't nice places. Doesn't matter where they are or who runs them. I don't know why people are surprised when this stuff happens. Watch TLC sometime, they have stuff on about "prison life" all the time. I know, I know. The US military should be different than other US Government agencies who run prisons. You know, since historically armies are really good at this kind of stuff. The horror.

 

Ooh, naked pyramids and stupid enlisted people smoking cigs and pointing at people.

[JoeFerguson]

Prisons aren't nice places. Doesn't matter where they are or who runs them. I don't know why people are surprised when this stuff happens. Watch TLC sometime, they have stuff on about "prison life" all the time. I know, I know. The US military should be different than other US Government agencies who run prisons. You know, since historically armies are really good at this kind of stuff. The horror.

 

Ooh, naked pyramids and stupid enlisted people smoking cigs and pointing at people.

 

The term "torture" has really been thrown around loosely during this whole scandal. You can argue the mundaneness of daily life is torture. Many people would consider their jobs torture. For me, listening to Celine Dion sing is torture. I don't really come here that much, but I'm guessing that this whole debate over the magnitude of the 'torture' has been brought up plenty. I don't really want to get in to that. What bothers me so much is that someone thought it would be a good idea to take pictures of the whole fiasco. Whether or not it was illegal is irrelevant, it was definitely questionable and they had to have known that these pictures could potentially be scandalous. These half-wits have now become our international representatives.

 

Some people could say that it was really no big deal what they did, and maybe those people are right, but why couldn't they at least do the 'torturing' with a little secrecy? Use some common sense. I think this "act like an !@#$ in public" mentality is becoming an unfortunate societal trend, and it's not exclusively occurring among the American military. Just read the headlines of fark.com to see what I mean.

[pdh1]

Yeah, yeah....I know.."we started it." Just like when Achmeninutjob tries to implement a blockade across the Strait of Hormuz THAT will be our fault, too...becuase...ya know..."we provoked him."

 

How is this for a pairing?

Achmeninutjob and the president of Sudan join together to fight "Western Pressure"

 

You know, pressure like "stop killing and raping people who because they are black or not muslims" kind of thing.

 

But the WEST is the villian.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/03/01...r.ap/index.html

[X. Benedict]

Just a comment: and this is just for some of you to mull over:

 

Do many of you realize that your arguments about US actions are always based in

moral relativism? That is, they don't stand on their own merits, but in contrast to

terrorists they stand up just fine. In a way it is a concession that American virtues

don't stand up on their own but are only superior by degree.

 

I don't have all of this fleshed out - nor am I looking for a pissing match- but it is always like the eulogy of the despised man

when nobody can say anything good and somebody is able to stand up and say:

"his brother was worse!"

[RkFast]

Just a comment: and this is just for some of you to mull over:

 

Do many of you realize that your arguments about US actions are always based in

moral relativism? That is, they don't stand on their own merits, but in contrast to

terrorists they stand up just fine. In a way it is a concession that American virtues

don't stand up on their own but are only superior by degree.

 

I don't have all of this fleshed out - nor am I looking for a pissing match- but it is always like the eulogy of the despised man

when nobody can say anything good and somebody is able to stand up and say:

"his brother was worse!"

 

There is some of that, sure.

 

But comparisons MUST be made when we, as a nation are lambasted for actions that would'nt even raise an eyebrow when conducted by rest of the world. We MUST as a Nation point out this hypocrisy.

[RkFast]

How is this for a pairing?

Achmeninutjob and the president of Sudan join together to fight "Western Pressure"

 

You know, pressure like "stop killing and raping people who because they are black or not muslims" kind of thing.

 

But the WEST is the villian.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/03/01...r.ap/index.html

 

Bush says "hello" and people go nuts. But a guy who controls a huge supply of the Worlds oil and will have nukes in the next ten years can say things like ""The Zionists are the true manifestation of Satan" and it barely...check that DOESNT even merit a mention...from CNN!!!!

 

Im sorry...thats !@#$ing SCARY.

[DC Tom]

Just a comment: and this is just for some of you to mull over:

 

Do many of you realize that your arguments about US actions are always based in

moral relativism? That is, they don't stand on their own merits, but in contrast to

terrorists they stand up just fine. In a way it is a concession that American virtues

don't stand up on their own but are only superior by degree.

 

I don't have all of this fleshed out - nor am I looking for a pissing match- but it is always like the eulogy of the despised man

when nobody can say anything good and somebody is able to stand up and say:

"his brother was worse!"

 

Part of that is because so much of the criticism is rooted in, for lack of a better term, moral excessivism. "Torture at Abu Ghraib!" Relative to the definition of "torture", it's not true. "Harrassment at Abu Ghraib" would have been more accurate.

 

And that's as much counter-argument as the claim needs. Arguing from moral relativisim is stupid not only because it's weak (why should someone else determine the morality you yourself live to?), but it's unnecessary.