obie_wan Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Exactly. He has speed and can tackle, but to me he is not even as good as LFB in shedding the blocking interior linemen. yeah- I could see how 2 plays in an all-star game definitely define how good he can be with good coaching. After those 2 plays, I wouldn't even bother looking at the other 4 years of game tape in real games. good job!
Nanker Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 yeah- I could see how 2 plays in an all-star game definitely define how good he can be with good coaching. After those 2 plays, I wouldn't even bother looking at the other 4 years of game tape in real games. good job! Right. I get your point. No negative comments or video on the chosen one. The hysteria for picking him must reach unabashed levels or else the Tar and Feather brigade won't have enough steam in it to give Marv a proper lynching when he picks Leon Hall.
Bill from NYC Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Right. I get your point. No negative comments or video on the chosen one. The hysteria for picking him must reach unabashed levels or else the Tar and Feather brigade won't have enough steam in it to give Marv a proper lynching when he picks Leon Hall. :lol: Are you sure?
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Can anyone compare Willis to Demeco Ryans?
bills_fan Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 That is not the question regarding Willis. He can cover, and he can cover damn good. The question about Willis is can he handle interior lineman when they run right at him, and can he plug holes. Everyone knows he has the speed to track down running backs on sweeps and off tackle runs, but can he stick his nose in there and be physical? We will find out. See the video in the thread I linked to to see Willis filling the holes (against LSU, no less). Also, you'll see in the replay Willis shedding the block of the G, and stepping up to make a thunderous tackle. I can watch that video all day. EDIT: Here ya go!! With regards to the senior bowl, c'mon its a friggin all star game. What type of system do you think they had time to put in place? Its basically sandlot football. And yes, sometimes you end up out of position in those circumstances and get roasted. Or, you have the athleticism to track a guy down 35 yeards downfield. I see that as a good thing.
2003Contenders Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 I'm starting to think that Willis may in fact be the Bills' man. On the NFL Network last night, one of the scouts commented that he would be a perfect fit for the Cover 2 defense, thanks to his instincts and ability to roam.
BuffBills#1 Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 If Willis is there at 12 we would be stupid to pass on him. Okoye has tons of potential, but he wouldn't be able to make the impact that Willis can make this year. The defense might not be as bad of shape as everyone is thinking. Essentially we're getting another 1st rounder with McCargo coming back, and help at LB with Crowell coming back. Yeah we're loosing Clements, but he can be replaced with a nick harper type player.
PatPatPatSack Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 yeah- I could see how 2 plays in an all-star game definitely define how good he can be with good coaching. After those 2 plays, I wouldn't even bother looking at the other 4 years of game tape in real games. good job! unfair. guy gives opinion and undisputable physical evidence to backup his point. you say there is 4 years of contrary evidence? give 1 freakin example and then you can use the little smilies. Otherwise, rational, fact-based arguments trump whinny my crap don't stink posts with smilies. Hey this is TBD. The bar is higher here.
OCinBuffalo Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 See the video in the thread I linked to to see Willis filling the holes (against LSU, no less). Also, you'll see in the replay Willis shedding the block of the G, and stepping up to make a thunderous tackle. I can watch that video all day. EDIT: Here ya go!! With regards to the senior bowl, c'mon its a friggin all star game. What type of system do you think they had time to put in place? Its basically sandlot football. And yes, sometimes you end up out of position in those circumstances and get roasted. Or, you have the athleticism to track a guy down 35 yeards downfield. I see that as a good thing. Cool video, I've been an Okoye guy for a while now. Gotta say I wouldn't cry if we got this guy though. I'm still with BillNYC on not drafting a CB - unless Marv does nothing at all about replacing Clements (and if we lose Thomas)
obie_wan Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 unfair. guy gives opinion and undisputable physical evidence to backup his point. you say there is 4 years of contrary evidence? give 1 freakin example and then you can use the little smilies. Otherwise, rational, fact-based arguments trump whinny my crap don't stink posts with smilies. Hey this is TBD. The bar is higher here. Tell your son he should watch bills_fan's video link. Based on that play, Willis is superman.
bills_fan Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Based on that play, Willis is superman. Well, I'd say the past couple of years worth of plays have made this guy can't miss. I think Patrick Willis would be defensive rookie of the year if we picked him. Within j2 years he'd be an AFC lock at MLB in the pro bowl every year. I truly think he's that good.
Pyrite Gal Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 Right. I get your point. No negative comments or video on the chosen one. The hysteria for picking him must reach unabashed levels or else the Tar and Feather brigade won't have enough steam in it to give Marv a proper lynching when he picks Leon Hall. :lol: Hysteria is the right word as shown by you providing some detailed commentary about specific tape references and the reply is merely check different tape. I for one think Willis is going to be a great player eventually, my question is whether the braintrust will judge they can afford the step back in MLB performance we will almost certainly get when a rookie takes over at MLB for a player who led NFL LBs in INTs mostly because he has had a decade of seeing NFL plays called and developed and he makes reads based on that. If you want an example of the role good reads play in the coverage game then those who have tape can look to the Ravens game about 10 minutes into the game where F-B read the McNair pass perfectly and played the MLB Cover 2 role perfectly as he played pass coverage all the way on what generally is a running down and distance (1st and ten in Balt territory) if he had pinched in and played the run then likely its a pass completion on 1st down and the Ravens are off to the races on this drive. Folks for some reason seem to be acting as if F-B makes initial hits too far into our backfield because of his poor play. There is little consistent evidence of this though. Actually he may well initiate hits belatedly but for the most part I think if this is so this is how the Jauron/Gewell Cover 2 works where our MLB is required to play far more like a safety than like a DT. If opponents run similar plays to this one we either will see Willis do what he is asked and he too will make hits downfield (likely leading to a series of whines that we chose the wrong LB) or he will actually play to plug the hole and of this play a WR like intended receiver Derrick Mason will make the catch as our MLB read a run based on down and distance and the Ravens start the drive with a big gain. For those who advocate taking Willis to start at MLB there is actually a fairly clear debate being waged by some who argue against it. Some argue that his Senior Bowl outing shows him struggling in pass coverage against the best college talent running pro style plays (the call for folks to watch film of his college career is no good answer to this observation because his college career was against general college talent but the difference in the Senior Bowl may well be this is his performance against THE BEST college talent and also running pro style plays as the Senior Bowl coaching staff is made up of pro coaches. Those who argue for selecting Willis at #12 have bit yet delivered a good answer to the inquiring minds who question whether he is the right pick. The other argument which is actually a new one to me is that in the Senior Bowl he had trouble shedding blockers. I don't know about this as I do not have Senior Bowl tape. As a Butkus trophy winner as the best college LB with a rep as a great tackler, I have my doubts about this complaint, but certainly his struggles in coverage against the best college talent is real and essentially unrebutted besides folks saying they like him so maybe he also has blocker issues, I will be looking for some substantiated reactions to rebut this point. Still there is another general point which will leave me a bit disappointed and thinking we are writing off 07 as yet another development year if we draft Willis to start at MLB. The basic point (which it likely will be amusing if any draft Willis advocates take it on) is that rookies are not vets. Just as we saw in game tapes such as the very nice INT which F-B rung up against the Ravens, in our Cover 2, the MLB is required to do the way we run the D. Like it or not despite Willis being a good player and likely the answer to our MLB needs for future years, it is simply the case that a rookie who is asked to play a very complex D position where some plays he must tackle like a DT and some plays he must cover like a safety is going to have to go through some type of learning curve with this position. If we get lucky and he is very talented this will almost certainly still mean a fall off in MLB production levels from the F-B play which has dissatisfied some. If we are not lucky and fall prey to opposing OCs who are likely licking their chops facing any rookie starting at MLB in a Cover 2 a season with Willlis at starting MLB may well be quite painful. I'm not arguing that he is a bad player, i think he is a very good player, I am arguing he is a rookie and particularly in parts of the game which depend on much more than how you react and even much more than simply being book bright, it will probably be painful watching him get schooled by vets.
bills_fan Posted February 27, 2007 Posted February 27, 2007 For those who advocate taking Willis to start at MLB there is actually a fairly clear debate being waged by some who argue against it. Some argue that his Senior Bowl outing shows him struggling in pass coverage against the best college talent running pro style plays (the call for folks to watch film of his college career is no good answer to this observation because his college career was against general college talent but the difference in the Senior Bowl may well be this is his performance against THE BEST college talent and also running pro style plays as the Senior Bowl coaching staff is made up of pro coaches. Those who argue for selecting Willis at #12 have bit yet delivered a good answer to the inquiring minds who question whether he is the right pick. I'd argue against your statements here. Senior bowl guys thrown together with a week of reps, vanilla systems and plays, without any practice time can hardly be called the best college talent when compared against top SEC teams like Florida and LSU that may have as many as 15-20 NFL draft picks on each roster, running a system that they have practiced repeatedly, some for 4 years.
Pyrite Gal Posted February 28, 2007 Posted February 28, 2007 I'd argue against your statements here. Senior bowl guys thrown together with a week of reps, vanilla systems and plays, without any practice time can hardly be called the best college talent when compared against top SEC teams like Florida and LSU that may have as many as 15-20 NFL draft picks on each roster, running a system that they have practiced repeatedly, some for 4 years. If what you maintain is true (which it easily may be) then perhaps Willis struggle with pass coverage in the Senior Bowl are even bigger indictment against his play since clearly he was having trouble against these "thrown together" players.
ans4e64 Posted February 28, 2007 Posted February 28, 2007 See the video in the thread I linked to to see Willis filling the holes (against LSU, no less). Also, you'll see in the replay Willis shedding the block of the G, and stepping up to make a thunderous tackle. I can watch that video all day. EDIT: Here ya go!! With regards to the senior bowl, c'mon its a friggin all star game. What type of system do you think they had time to put in place? Its basically sandlot football. And yes, sometimes you end up out of position in those circumstances and get roasted. Or, you have the athleticism to track a guy down 35 yeards downfield. I see that as a good thing. Just as we cannot determine Willis is a bad player for a few bad highlights, we also cannot asses he is a good player from a few good highlights. I am not saying Willis isn't the man, I was simply replying that the original poster's question facing Willis in the pro's was incorrect.
ans4e64 Posted February 28, 2007 Posted February 28, 2007 I'd argue against your statements here. Senior bowl guys thrown together with a week of reps, vanilla systems and plays, without any practice time can hardly be called the best college talent when compared against top SEC teams like Florida and LSU that may have as many as 15-20 NFL draft picks on each roster, running a system that they have practiced repeatedly, some for 4 years. The Senior Bowl is hardly an "All star game." They are not just thrown together, with little to no practice time. The Senior Bowl is crucial towards the evaluation of each player in attendance, thus it is vital that they perform to the best or their abilities. The practices are rigid and ran by NFL coaches and staffs... definitely not thrown together.
bills_fan Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 The Senior Bowl is hardly an "All star game." They are not just thrown together, with little to no practice time. The Senior Bowl is crucial towards the evaluation of each player in attendance, thus it is vital that they perform to the best or their abilities. The practices are rigid and ran by NFL coaches and staffs... definitely not thrown together. How long do they practice? Months? No. Weeks? Maybe? One week. Probably. Thats thrown together as compared to running an SEC offense or defense. With the spring practice, summer workouts, training camp and during the week stuff, the D these players practice the same scheme for months. You can't duplicate that with a week of practice or even two.
bills_fan Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 The Patrick Willis review from John Murphy (Yahoo Sports guy). 1. Patrick Willis, Mississippi: One of the most prolific tacklers in recent memory during his time in the SEC, Willis played through an assortment of injuries as a junior before opting to return to school rather than jumping to the NFL. Willis, a great leader on the field, has made all the calls for his defensive unit. He gets good depth on his drops, but lacks ideal lateral quickness and has a tendency to takes a few false steps to the ball after the snap. However, he does have good instincts and takes proper angles to the receiver, creating more than a few pass breakups by nailing an opposing receiver as the ball arrives. Willis plays faster than his originally reported 40 times and really gets after the run. However, he needs to make better use of his hands to avoid cut blocks. He's a terrific defender who brings an emotional presence to the field and showed much better range than anticipated during the Senior Bowl week practices. The Saints and 49ers seemed to keep a closer eye on him during his time in Mobile, but teams like Buffalo, New England and even Dallas could surface as bidders for his services. Do not be surprised if he is overdrafted as it is hard to find full-sized inside linebackers like this who actually play at a consistently high level. And here's the article.. Rating the ILBs
jangalang Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 Can anyone compare Willis to Demeco Ryans? I am a lifelong Bills and Alabama Crimson Tide fan. After seeing Willis against the Tide all these years, I would say that he is VERY similar to Ryans (UA grad). While both have good physical skills, I would say that it's their smarts which make them stand out. PW is the guy I want Marv to grab without a doubt in my mind.
bills_fan Posted March 1, 2007 Posted March 1, 2007 I am a lifelong Bills and Alabama Crimson Tide fan. After seeing Willis against the Tide all these years, I would say that he is VERY similar to Ryans (UA grad). While both have good physical skills, I would say that it's their smarts which make them stand out. PW is the guy I want Marv to grab without a doubt in my mind. Thanks for the insight, and welcome to the board.
Recommended Posts