Levy's THIRD Bungling Mistake

[yankmeebills]

So let me get this right: McGahee goes out of his way to let people know he's not happy with his current situation, and that's okay. But the Bills let it be known among a group of peers who are supposed to keep their freakin' traps shut that they're not happy with his current situation, and that is considered one of three huge mistakes by Marv Levy. It's as laughable as the other two mistakes you mention.

 

I don't know if anyone is standing around counting all of your mistakes, but if someone decides to take up the hobby, they could start with this thread.

 

The Giants screwed up. Not Marv. Of course, if only Marv had more GM experience, he probably would have said something to Reese like "Oh, and this McGahee talk is between us girls, okay?" Plus, he would magically know what you apparently magically know: that McGahee will have a great 2007, that Whitner would still be available if traded down, and Clements would have gladly shown up to camp to get things started off the right foot with the new staff and management.

 

Geezus. I don't know why you're the only one who sees all the obvious stuff.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more...

[mary owen]

this sounds like the type of guy a bumbling Marv Levy should hold on to...at all costs

 

McGahee didn't spend any time in Buffalo last offseason learning the new playbook under coach Dick Jauron. The Bills are expecting more of the same this offseason.

 

"Willis literally didn't know what to do on the plays," a source said. "After the play was called, we'd have another coach signaling to Willis what to do because he didn't know. He'd miss blocks [in pass protection]a few times, not because he was beat, but because he didn't know what he was doing.

 

"He just doesn't study. … His teammates noticed it, and it affected how they viewed him in the locker room."

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

this sounds like the type of guy a bumbling Marv Levy should hold on to...at all costs

 

Anyone with half a brain could see Willis just didn't care.

[ganesh]

Money is a motivator. More for some players than others. McGahee is one for which it is. Look at his history after his knee surgery: the motivation was incredible to stay a 1st-round pick and get paid. Now it's contract time again. He and Rosenhaus have been waiting for this for a long time.

 

What is wrong with that. For majority of people in this world, Money is a motivator. If it is not greed what is wrong with that. McGahee has the opportunity to make millions in the profession he chose and in fact if he does not get motivated by that then something is wrong. The fact that he could make it in the 1st round after such a devastating injury says how strong this guy is mentally.

[RShirley]

Marv is a smart man and realizes that you can't "polish a turd", and should be commended for trying to get something for this buffoon. What direction would you take in the draft to find his replace. Assuming Peterson is off the board would you take Lynch at 12 OR would you rather wait until the second round and pick-up Irons, Pittman, or Walker OR wait until the 3rd and pick-up either Hunt or Bush?

 

I don't follow the college game closely enough to really know, but I think the most appealing would be to take Okoye in 1st and Kenny Irons in the 2nd. What would you prefer.

 

The other option would be Dominic "DWI" Rhodes in free agency, which I wouldn't be entirely opposed to either.

[DrDawkinstein]

Marv is a smart man and realizes that you can't "polish a turd", and should be commended for trying to get something for this buffoon. What direction would you take in the draft to find his replace. Assuming Peterson is off the board would you take Lynch at 12 OR would you rather wait until the second round and pick-up Irons, Pittman, or Walker OR wait until the 3rd and pick-up either Hunt or Bush?

 

I don't follow the college game closely enough to really know, but I think the most appealing would be to take Okoye in 1st and Kenny Irons in the 2nd. What would you prefer.

 

The other option would be Dominic "DWI" Rhodes in free agency, which I wouldn't be entirely opposed to either.

 

personally, i would rather take Hunt in the 2nd. BUT, Irons wouldnt be bad since he REALLY wants to play in buffalo, which would be an immediate upgrade from our current guy. i dont know that Irons will be there in the 2nd though. he seems pretty sure he is going to the Jets... we'll see. but ill happily take Irons, Pittman, Hunt or Bush in the 2nd. especaially if we get a 3rd for Willis. i think id actually take any of those players in the 2nd over Peterson/Lynch in the 1st.

[Dawgg]

Nobody said there is anything "wrong" with that. But when you lay down the facts and take his motivation into account, McGahee was poised for a career year.

 

What is wrong with that. For majority of people in this world, Money is a motivator. If it is not greed what is wrong with that. McGahee has the opportunity to make millions in the profession he chose and in fact if he does not get motivated by that then something is wrong. The fact that he could make it in the 1st round after such a devastating injury says how strong this guy is mentally.

[Fan in San Diego]

McGahee is in a contract year. That means he is going to run his freakin ass off no matter where he plays. He wants to put up numbers and ESPN highlight film, to get his big payday next year. Marv could call him a baby and an !@#$ before and after everygame and it wouldn't matter. Willis is going to run like a maniac to get his payday !

[DrDawkinstein]

McGahee is in a contract year. That means he is going to run his freakin ass off no matter where he plays. He wants to put up numbers and ESPN highlight film, to get his big payday next year. Marv could call him a baby and an !@#$ before and after everygame and it wouldn't matter. Willis is going to run like a maniac to get his payday !

 

 

all he needs to do now is bother learning WHERE he is supposed to be running

[RShirley]

McGahee is in a contract year. That means he is going to run his freakin ass off no matter where he plays. He wants to put up numbers and ESPN highlight film, to get his big payday next year. Marv could call him a baby and an !@#$ before and after everygame and it wouldn't matter. Willis is going to run like a maniac to get his payday !

 

Wanting to put up numbers and having the talent and skill set to do so are two entirely different things. People are still in denial that he isn't the same back as he was at Miami, people need to come to grips that we are never going to see that player. He is just mediocre

[stuckincincy]

He is just mediocre

 

He possibly might be a bit more perky if he had an Indy or SD line, or a Manning or a Palmer, or a Harrison and Wayne or a Johnson and Houshmanzedeh on the field at the same time.

 

Possibly.

[Stiffler]

Changing my mind.

 

I still do not trust Levy's ability to run an NFL team. But the arguments have been persuasive-- some negative and sarcastic-- but persuasive. In the end, Marv is just doing his job in seeing if there is a market for a RB that will be an UFA after this year. And I suppose a guy like Willis is going to play hard regardless if his name pops up in the trade rumors. So... good job, Board. (I wouldn't trade him for less than a high 2nd-round pick.)

 

Now, please lop on more sarcasm, I'm ready.

[mead107]

should change your name to flipper

[Pyrite Gal]

Marv's other two huge mistakes:

• Agreeing last season NOT to franchise Clements for 2007, avoiding a preseason holdout. What did we get? A full team all pre-season. What did we lose? A top-flight CB for all of 2007. Inexcusable.
  
• The draft: should have traded down and landed Whitner later, picking up extra first-day picks; should NOT have traded up and gotten McCargo (the third best D-lineman on his COLLEGE team). Inexcusable in any draft, but worse in a deep draft.
  

Marv Levy, HoF coach, has once again proved his inexperience at being a GM.

 

I think the rants about WM as assessments of Marv are fairly forgettable right now until something real actually happens. Its fine that folks post on it but if the poster gives any relevance to reality they should also note this is so much dimestore psychology in terms of how this player feels or reacts to this or that stimulus or whether he likes your likes you likes you,

 

As far as Marv's other two "mistakes" it actually is your analysis which at least seems prettu debatable and actually seems in error.

 

* The franchise charge associated with a top 5 CB if we were to franchise NC seems likely to be above his value to the team even after he had a pretty good season in 06 and likely depending upon the market value which would be needed to get him to agree to a long-term deal would take up too large of a % of our cap room if we did resign him.

 

Marv recognized correctly that in a Cover 2 the way Jauron implements it, the CB simply is not put to the highest and best use for many players (for example Dre Bly is publicly on record saying he is leaving Detroit because he hates the Cover 2 scheme they run which was developed under Jauron as the DC and then interim HC in Detroit last year.

 

Clements is a very good player and is the best CB by a good amount on the Bills squad. However, this difference is not going to make a big winning difference for the Bills and is not worth the % of the cap NC would command under the franchise tag or if we offered him a contract he would likely judge to be worth signing.

 

While on occaision our CBs may be required to run with a speedy WR if we are changing up the coverage from time to time as you have to do in the NFL, for the most part in our Cover 2 which is more like the Tampa 2. the CB lets the WR go after he heads 10-15 yards downfield. The better D style for NC us actually the looser coverage we player in the old days developed by Corey or even the zone blitz as the CB plays loose and can read the plays or QB and actually jump routes which NC seems to do at least once a year for a TD.

 

There are those who do argue that NC played a valuable role for us in games such as his pass break-up against Houston which forced a punt from them on their final drive. but note this was on a short pass in the left flat and this was actually press coverage by NC rather than the special coverage only a great or at least very good CB can do. Losing NC in no way means that either a promoted Youbouty or a second tier CB cannot make this play or even if he doesn't that we lose.

 

They also argue that McGee cannot replace him. This may be true, but given improved performance by Mcgee in the last 8 games, complainers may want to wait to see what reality brings us before they get their panties too much in a wad with the finding we are DDDOOOMMMEEEDDD because we did not give up any chance to upgrade at the more critical DT and OG spots by signing him.

 

Clements is a very good player (though actually one has to ignore the fact he was pretty awful in 05 and fumbled a critical PR in the game we lost to Pitts in 04 that lost any chance we had of making the playoffs and was a sign of some inconsistency he has had which indicate he is not really a top 5 CB or more than an occaisional Pro Bowl level talent either though he is a very good pro). I think he likely will even make the Pro Bowl again due to his youth if he picks a good team with the right scheme and particularly if they choose to use his PR skills. Under the right conditions he can be a playmaker.

 

However, those conditions are not there on a team which uses the Cover 2 the way we do and IMHO, the Bills gained a lot more by not having him be a distraction last year, tagging him while he was cheaper and if he had yet another bad year in 06 or got hurt like Reed did in his comtract year then we would have the option to resign him if it benefited us. However, he had a year and folks like Samuel got tagged so the right football answer to me is to let him go. I do like what Youbouty showed in college and felt good that the coaches had enough confidence in his play to give him a start against NYJ last year, but still I would pick up a second tier CB to compete with Youbouty (who did well in college in press coverage and as a 6 footer with a rep for competitiveness who should at least be good enough to play the nickel for us.

 

Agreeing to franchise Nate last year and forgoing by agreement to franchise him now when all signs pointed toward us not wanting to pay the market rate anyway for him if he had a good year was a good move.

 

As far as the trade down, the two things to consider where:

 

1. Was it possible Whitner would be gone if we moved down (a clear question given that we definitely needed an SS from this draft and their were two of them who looked good). and

 

2. Did any other safety who reasonably might have played better than Whitner and who reasonably could have been taken in the first couple of rounds perform better than Whitner last year.

 

A look at what really happened last years shows that Detroit who had the #9 pick actually took an SS with their 2nd round pick. Who knows where Detroit had Whitner on their board but given that they did take an SS with their second pick it is at least arguable that Whitner might not have lasted beyond the next pick if we had traded down, Even if Detroit had still taken LB Sims with their #9, this does not guarantee us Whitner as the Fins took SS Allen at #15 and even if we had gotten a trade down to #12 or so, there is the risk that the Fins might have jumped up ahead of us and taken Whitner and forced us to go with Allen.

 

An examination of the stats of all the SS players taken in the first couple of rounds actually indicates that Whitner got more tackles and I think tied for the lead among these players in INTs. In particular the comparison is interesting as if we had gotten Allen it appears he would not have started immediately for us and folks would be wailing because we did not get a safety in the draft who allowed us to not play Coy Wire at SS.

 

All the ranting about SS not being a position any team takes in the top ten or the first round is seemingly reduced to mere drivel by the fact that Whitner was not even the first SS taken in the draft nor was he the last taken in the 1st round.

 

Even those who would complain this was merely a run caused by Oak's pick of Whitner should think twice (or maybe its once) about this situation because Whitner was statistically better than Huff and also much better than 3ed 1st round safety Allen whom the Bills may have ended up with if they had traded down.

 

I think that Marv actually led the team to doing a good job on both the mistakes you mention and most should wait for reality before accepting your WM indictment.

[Scraps]

the second i see someone say Marv shouldve traded down last draft, i stop reading/listening.

 

Guess its a good thing he saved that for the second to the last sentence in his post.

[DrDawkinstein]

good thing!?? i had to sit and read the entire thing til he outed himself and i could completely dismiss him!

 

[Scraps]

good thing!?? i had to sit and read the entire thing til he outed himself and i could completely dismiss him!

 

 

Completely dismissed him yet still felt compelled to respond over and over and over again?

[dave mcbride]

Have to disagree. I knew McGahee was a douchebag when most everyone was still fawning over his celebrity and the attention it brought to Buffalo. But Willis is entering the key season of his career and when Willis is TRULY up against it, he has the ability to dig deep. See his rehab from the knee injury.

 

We were almost assured of not seeing the reccurrance of the things that keep him from being an elite power RB. Those guys are a relatively rare commodity in the NFL right now. This guy was poised for a 350 carry, 1500+ yard 15 TD season. A season that could have been a bridge for JP Losman and a young OL to go from being decent to outstanding. With this team at such a critical point in it's development, even a second round pick isn't worth what's at stake. A fourth round pick would be just plain absurd.

 

As a GM, if you are going to make a promise not to franchise a player, do it with a RB. RB's are less expensive and easier to replace, and keeping McGahee would allow the team to take a chance on a later round RB instead of blowing an early pick that could be used elsewhere.

 

No comparison to the Clements situation, RB's do not have the trade value that a shut down corner has and last years team was not going anywhere that it needed Clements in mini-camps that badly. They outright squandered at least a first round pick in the Clements situation. Even after a great year, McGahee wouldn't command franchise type compensation. See Shaun Alexander last year.

I have to disagree with this. I simply don't think he's good enough to ever be a 1500+ yard back. The low 1300s with a 4.1 ypc seems to me to be about the best he'll ever be capable of, and even that's a dodgy proposition. That ain't chopped liver, but it ain't special either, and moreover you're looking at one or two years max of that kind of productivity from him in the future. You forget that the most yards Thomas ever rushed for was 1487, and guys like Bettis cracked the 1500 yard mark only once. Heck, even guys who were absolute top shelf backs for a short stretch of years - Eddie George and Fred Taylor (both of whom were clearly more talented than McGahee in their primes) - hit the 1500 yard mark only once, and even then finished only barely above it. I don't know what you're seeing, but in WM I'm seeing the equivalent of Eddie George in year 6 of his career -- beat up, able to only run a 4.6 40, and a lot more likely to become slower rather than faster. And I hate to belabor a point, but he's a crappy receiver, and I strongly suspect that both Levy and Fairchild want a guy who knows how to run a competent circle route (a la Thomas and Faulk).

[Git'er Done]

Marv is a smart man and realizes that you can't "polish a turd", and should be commended for trying to get something for this buffoon. What direction would you take in the draft to find his replace. Assuming Peterson is off the board would you take Lynch at 12 OR would you rather wait until the second round and pick-up Irons, Pittman, or Walker OR wait until the 3rd and pick-up either Hunt or Bush?

 

I don't follow the college game closely enough to really know, but I think the most appealing would be to take Okoye in 1st and Kenny Irons in the 2nd. What would you prefer.

 

The other option would be Dominic "DWI" Rhodes in free agency, which I wouldn't be entirely opposed to either.

 

Just stop it with the Dominic Rhodes talk. Remember when the Raiders signed Zack Crockett, that's what the Bills would end up with, a back-up. He's nothing special, and would be way overpaid if he gets starter money.

[Orton's Arm]

Willis would have had a great 2007 season: JPLosman is more comfortable, the OL is stronger, and, of course, Willis wants the big pay-day (and yes, for a guy like Willis and his pal, Drew Rosenhaus, this is a big big motivator).

 

Apparently Marv thought that the trade discussions could proceed with complete secrecy, hence the "Bills officials annoyed" reports. This is just more proof of Marv's inexperience.

 

I agree that this will not sit well with McGahee. He has a record of being unhappy about his contract and Buffalo. So now, instead of having a good offense led by a motivated, talented RB that knows the offense, we'll either have:

• a disgruntled McGahee that could potentially be a team cancer all year if Marv doesn't trade him or
  
• an extra mid-round draft pick; and Bills are forced to use an early draft pick on an unproven RB
  

Do we get nothing for him after 2007? That's right. But is a 4th-round pick worth all the negatives? No.

 

Oh, (and just to stoke the fires even more), Marv's other two huge mistakes:

• Agreeing last season NOT to franchise Clements for 2007, avoiding a preseason holdout. What did we get? A full team all pre-season. What did we lose? A top-flight CB for all of 2007. Inexcusable.
  
• The draft: should have traded down and landed Whitner later, picking up extra first-day picks; should NOT have traded up and gotten McCargo (the third best D-lineman on his COLLEGE team). Inexcusable in any draft, but worse in a deep draft.
  

Marv Levy, HoF coach, has once again proved his inexperience at being a GM.

I agree with the first two of your points. The Bills should have traded down. Had Whitner not been available, they could have drafted a (thus far) superior football player in Mangold. And it's a mistake to let Clements walk with no compensation. If they weren't going to extend him at the end of the 2006 season, they should have franchised and traded him at the end of the 2005 season. The whole one-and-done thing doesn't make sense for Clements.

 

Nor does it make sense for McGahee. The Bills aren't going to this year's Super Bowl. Don't give me players who are here today, and will be gone tomorrow. Give me a solid core with which to work! A core that will be around for a long time. If the Bills don't plan to extend McGahee after this season's over, they should make every effort to trade him. A fourth round pick may be a little low, but you know what? If that's the best anyone's willing to offer, then maybe it says something about how much McGahee's actually worth.