John from Riverside Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 why do you guys even bother posting on this board if you are convinced the Bills are now a minor league team? [/ I myself do not understand how the press conference last week means we wont make competitive offers to guys like Losman and Evans......to me it seems that they are trying to put them into positions to be ABLE to make those offers down the road. I myself am not just ready to catch and plane up to Buffalo and ride a barrel over the Niagra Falls just yet....because unlike some I dont think we need a hughe overhall of players in order to be a playoff team next year.... a. From what I can see our schedule looks a lot easier......... b. While folks lament about the offensive line....I think we really only need to sign (and resign) 2 players......Gandy isn't going to command a huge contract and can be moved to right guard......he IS a good run blocker and a experienced veteran player.....and can be paired up with Terrance Pennington on that side who showed promise.....we also have Brad Butler waiting in the wings who didn't play because of an injury......SIGN A QUALITY LEFT GUARD......this a point of emphasis so spend money here and put a quality somebody next to Jason Peters.....we are just fine at center for this year I like Fowler a lot.....you would not see him get overpowered if you had maulers on each side of him..... c. We have our MLB replacement on the roster right now......what we need is a OLB just in case our undersized draft pick from last year is not quite ready.....lets keep in mind that our safety tandem will have a year under their belt and I expect them to be very good next year.....Clements costs too much but I am betting we can find a veteran corner to fill his spot until Yobuty is ready. Defensive end does not bother me because a. Denny was playing every bit as good as Kelsay and b. We have Hargrove backing him up.....Schrobel made the pro bowl....what we NEED is to bring in another quality D tackle in case McCargo does not set the world on fire when he comes back.....but he will have a year under his belt and should be improved. We need a run clogger regardless of the defensive scheme we run so we can be tough on goaline and short yardage situations...... I really think we are going to be alright.....and while it may be a big gamble for the bills to not spend huge money this year and just rely on a few free agents and their draft.....WHAT IF IT PAYS OFF.....then going into the following year you have more then enough money to resign guys that NEED to be resigned....like Evans and Losman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 why do you guys even bother posting on this board if you are convinced the Bills are now a minor league team? [/ I myself do not understand how the press conference last week means we wont make competitive offers to guys like Losman and Evans......to me it seems that they are trying to put them into positions to be ABLE to make those offers down the road. I myself am not just ready to catch and plane up to Buffalo and ride a barrel over the Niagra Falls just yet....because unlike some I dont think we need a hughe overhall of players in order to be a playoff team next year.... a. From what I can see our schedule looks a lot easier......... b. While folks lament about the offensive line....I think we really only need to sign (and resign) 2 players......Gandy isn't going to command a huge contract and can be moved to right guard......he IS a good run blocker and a experienced veteran player.....and can be paired up with Terrance Pennington on that side who showed promise.....we also have Brad Butler waiting in the wings who didn't play because of an injury......SIGN A QUALITY LEFT GUARD......this a point of emphasis so spend money here and put a quality somebody next to Jason Peters.....we are just fine at center for this year I like Fowler a lot.....you would not see him get overpowered if you had maulers on each side of him..... c. We have our MLB replacement on the roster right now......what we need is a OLB just in case our undersized draft pick from last year is not quite ready.....lets keep in mind that our safety tandem will have a year under their belt and I expect them to be very good next year.....Clements costs too much but I am betting we can find a veteran corner to fill his spot until Yobuty is ready. Defensive end does not bother me because a. Denny was playing every bit as good as Kelsay and b. We have Hargrove backing him up.....Schrobel made the pro bowl....what we NEED is to bring in another quality D tackle in case McCargo does not set the world on fire when he comes back.....but he will have a year under his belt and should be improved. We need a run clogger regardless of the defensive scheme we run so we can be tough on goaline and short yardage situations...... I really think we are going to be alright.....and while it may be a big gamble for the bills to not spend huge money this year and just rely on a few free agents and their draft.....WHAT IF IT PAYS OFF.....then going into the following year you have more then enough money to resign guys that NEED to be resigned....like Evans and Losman Who would be that middle LB replacement? I'm concerned that we might ge the D-line fixed only to be very thin at LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Who would be that middle LB replacement? I'm concerned that we might ge the D-line fixed only to be very thin at LB. Angelo Crowell is a natural middle linebacker who can both blitz and cover....he is also a larger player then London.... The problem is the OLB position...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 w I really think we are going to be alright.....and while it may be a big gamble for the bills to not spend huge money this year and just rely on a few free agents and their draft.....WHAT IF IT PAYS OFF.....then going into the following year you have more then enough money to resign guys that NEED to be resigned....like Evans and Losman Okay, you got me...maybe I am overreacting. Let me see how serious an offer they make to keep Nate Clements. There is no reason they shouldn't be able to re-sign him, if they are serious about wanting him. That is unless they are setting the precedent for the future. What I heard Marv say was that the Bills were not going to get into amoratizing contracts, and tie up their future. So what, they can maintain the status quo? If you have a good player, and you truly believe you want him, why not keep him? I am also hoping, with the money they have, they extend Lee Evans, before he is even a threat to hit the open market...but that might require an amortized contract.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 The disconnect is between the fans – who mostly know the easily identifiable FA stars in the league, and the talent-evaluating group in team management – who study the other teams' talent more in depth and know the good players on the other teams that are not getting playing time because they're positioned behind a superstar. That's the level of talent that Marv & Co. are targeting... the Larry Trippletts and Robert Royals of the league. Guys that can step in and play but weren't given the opportunity to on their old team. Those are the kinds of players the front office will be looking to sign - because they've been looking at them since their college scouting reports were filled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 why do you guys even bother posting on this board if you are convinced the Bills are now a minor league team? Maybe to represent those fans who haven't completely lost their desire to see winning football return to Rich Stadium? Those fans that refuse to stand for the mediocre product they are being handed every year. This isn't the first time Ralph has implemented his 'Cash to Cap' policy. He was well before his time. He did it before there was a Salary Cap back in the 70's and early 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 If the Bills are going to lose 2 solid starters on defense and a kid who can rush the passer, these guys have to be somehow replaced. Free agency doesn't seem to be an option, leaving only the draft. I think that this philosophy almost necessitates a trade down in the draft. We need to get as many early picks as we can, and come away with something besides defensive backs instead of doing the opposite. The good news is that the Bills do seem mandated to spend more cash to get to the minimum. I truly hope that they use it on Kelsay, and/or to franchise Fletcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Players may rule out Buffalo right now because of what they read and heard, when before they might have found Buffalo to be an intriguing possibility. 1) Jauron and Levy have immpeccable reputations when it comes to plyers wanting to play for them. They ltreat players like men, not whipped animals and players love that. 2) The GMs and coaches do not talk to a player without first approaching their agent... then things get rolling. Agents usually do all the negotiating for the players. They aprise them of each team's situation, if the organization is a good fit for them, etc. If it's a "go" then they start talking cash. 3) Let's keep it real and simple. This team is in "rebuild" mode. So, anyone expecting playoffs is going to be disappointed. The core of this team is no longer Milloy, Moulds, Bledsoe, Brown, Spikes, Fletcher, and Clements. Folks need to deal with that and move on. Right now, the Bills are in the process of "DEFINING THEIR NEW CORE"... Evans, Peters, Whitner, and Simpson are locks. JPL, Kyle W may be part of that. Until this regime defines their core, you can damn well bet, and carve it in stone, that they will not lay out significant kwan to any free agent. So, if this scares potential free agents off, so what. Most top free agents are in the 27-29 age bracket... which makes them on the wrong side of 30 in 3-4 years This team is building through the draft right now. This team may very well be the youngest team in the NFL next season if Spikes, Fletcher, Villarial, Reyes, Shelton, and Gandy are gone. Once they get the ship "righted" and up and running, then they'll add a free agent or two... maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 1) Jauron and Levy have immpeccable reputations when it comes to plyers wanting to play for them. They ltreat players like men, not whipped animals and players love that. 2) The GMs and coaches do not talk to a player without first approaching their agent... then things get rolling. Agents usually do all the negotiating for the players. They aprise them of each team's situation, if the organization is a good fit for them, etc. If it's a "go" then they start talking cash. 3) Let's keep it real and simple. This team is in "rebuild" mode. So, anyone expecting playoffs is going to be disappointed. The core of this team is no longer Milloy, Moulds, Bledsoe, Brown, Spikes, Fletcher, and Clements. Folks need to deal with that and move on. Right now, the Bills are in the process of "DEFINING THEIR NEW CORE"... Evans, Peters, Whitner, and Simpson are locks. JPL, Kyle W may be part of that. Until this regime defines their core, you can damn well bet, and carve it in stone, that they will not lay out significant kwan to any free agent. So, if this scares potential free agents off, so what. Most top free agents are in the 27-29 age bracket... which makes them on the wrong side of 30 in 3-4 years This team is building through the draft right now. This team may very well be the youngest team in the NFL next season if Spikes, Fletcher, Villarial, Reyes, Shelton, and Gandy are gone. Once they get the ship "righted" and up and running, then they'll add a free agent or two... maybe. That's a good post, and mostly true. However, I have two problems with it. I don't think you can or do build for 3-4 years down the road, there are far too many variables that are uncertain, especially because you don't have any idea whether your core players will be there 3-4 years away. Secondly, and most importantly, a solid guard or two on this team, and two solid defensive linemen on this team accelerates the learning curve and the overall play of everyone on the team, especially the young guys. And a guy like Nate Clements was the biggest reason that the safeties were able to play at their decent level last year. Without him they would have likely been completely lost and chasing guys all over the field instead of doing their dumbed-down jobs. A good free agent or two can right this ship a year or two quicker. I am not saying we should spend like crazy just because the fans have heard of the name. But there are guys out there, say Dielman, and surely Clements, and a few others, that would help the young guys more than their two years of experience will. Also, when I was talking about a player wanting to come here, I included the agent in the equation. Before that press conference, Eric Steinbach and his agent likely had Buffalo on their radar as a team that really needs a guard and has a lot of money. Now, he and his agent can cross them off the list as potential visits, regardless of the player's affection for Marv and Jauron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 That's a good post, and mostly true. However, I have two problems with it. I don't think you can or do build for 3-4 years down the road, there are far too many variables that are uncertain, especially because you don't have any idea whether your core players will be there 3-4 years away. Secondly, and most importantly, a solid guard or two on this team, and two solid defensive linemen on this team accelerates the learning curve and the overall play of everyone on the team, especially the young guys. And a guy like Nate Clements was the biggest reason that the safeties were able to play at their decent level last year. Without him they would have likely been completely lost and chasing guys all over the field instead of doing their dumbed-down jobs. A good free agent or two can right this ship a year or two quicker. I am not saying we should spend like crazy just because the fans have heard of the name. But there are guys out there, say Dielman, and surely Clements, and a few others, that would help the young guys more than their two years of experience will. Also, when I was talking about a player wanting to come here, I included the agent in the equation. Before that press conference, Eric Steinbach and his agent likely had Buffalo on their radar as a team that really needs a guard and has a lot of money. Now, he and his agent can cross them off the list as potential visits, regardless of the player's affection for Marv and Jauron. I just do not accept as fact that this team cannot be a playoff team next year..... When you step back and look at it.....this team got off to a slow start last year becase a. Losman was not productive at the beginning of the year and b. We could not stop the run.....as the season wore on they dug themselves out of the early hole they put themselves in and right up to the Titans game were still in it for a wildcard....... If we can get our running game going and STOP teams from running all over us.......next year will probably be a playoff year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Secondly, and most importantly, a solid guard or two on this team, and two solid defensive linemen on this team accelerates the learning curve and the overall play of everyone on the team, especially the young guys. And a guy like Nate Clements was the biggest reason that the safeties were able to play at their decent level last year. Without him they would have likely been completely lost and chasing guys all over the field instead of doing their dumbed-down jobs. True... but at what cost? Do you bring in big name FAs and handcuff yourself slary cap wise... ending up not able to sign one of your own key players like Lee Evans and perhap JP Losman... and players yet to be defined as part of that new "core"? And... true that Clements helped the rookie safeties... something that wouldn't have happened with a lesser cb. But Simpson and Whitner have a year under their belt now...so, whomever plays that position next year may very well be in the reverse situation... having capable safeties watch his back. Levy and Jauron are putting their signature on this team and until they have a few more pieces of the puzzle added, they just are not ready to mortgage the future... and that's just what you almost have to do when you sign the big names. Take a look at the Redskins...building through free agency. How's that worked out? And, San Diego, building through the draft... that hasn't worked out too badly. Indy mainly signs their own and trades for a player rather than taking the FA route... I guess that's worked fairly well too. I've got a hunch that most of the posters (not you) that are having a hard time dealing with Marv's approach are probably under 30 and skip their regular dose of ritalin. If they'd just take a step back and look at how pro football works... they would know that there isn't a magic bullet and that the Donahoe fiasco has put this team right back where they were in 2000 and 2001. All those high priced big name FA signed in Donahoe's era yielded what, a couple of .500 campaigns? That's reason enough for Ralph to to hold off... he's still spitting out that bad taste in his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted February 20, 2007 Author Share Posted February 20, 2007 True... but at what cost? Do you bring in big name FAs and handcuff yourself slary cap wise... ending up not able to sign one of your own key players like Lee Evans and perhap JP Losman... and players yet to be defined as part of that new "core"? And... true that Clements helped the rookie safeties... something that wouldn't have happened with a lesser cb. But Simpson and Whitner have a year under their belt now...so, whomever plays that position next year may very well be in the reverse situation... having capable safeties watch his back. Levy and Jauron are putting their signature on this team and until they have a few more pieces of the puzzle added, they just are not ready to mortgage the future... and that's just what you almost have to do when you sign the big names. Take a look at the Redskins...building through free agency. How's that worked out? And, San Diego, building through the draft... that hasn't worked out too badly. Indy mainly signs their own and trades for a player rather than taking the FA route... I guess that's worked fairly well too. I've got a hunch that most of the posters (not you) that are having a hard time dealing with Marv's approach are probably under 30 and skip their regular dose of ritalin. If they'd just take a step back and look at how pro football works... they would know that there isn't a magic bullet and that the Donahoe fiasco has put this team right back where they were in 2000 and 2001. All those high priced big name FA signed in Donahoe's era yielded what, a couple of .500 campaigns? That's reason enough for Ralph to to hold off... he's still spitting out that bad taste in his mouth. Again, good post. But I would argue with using examples like Indy and San Diego. Both of them signed their stars to huge contracts, which is why they are where they are. The Bills, under this formula, could not have signed LT or Gates, or Manning, Harrison or Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 The Bills, under this formula, could not have signed LT or Gates, or Manning, Harrison or Wayne. alas... those guys are the "core of their teams". The Bills have not defined their core yet. If you go on the premise that Dick J. and Marv ride into town and continue Donahoe's work, I can see where you might conclude this. But, those guys rode into town... took inventory, tried to slavage what they could, wrote off the obvious right away (Adams, Moulds, Milloy, Williams), plugged in pieces they thought would fit.... Ellison, Whitner, Simpson, Williams, Royal, Triplett, etc. and continued their evaluation throughout the entire season. Now they're in phase 2... It would appear that they do not consider Clements part of the core... nor Kelsay and are not going to risk throwing $$$ away. They know Reyes was a dumb move, Triplett might be, Spikes may not totally recover, McGahee has demonstrated he can't be trusted to carry the load, and they learned some valuable knowledge on Evans, Peters, and JP. So, before this season they need to lock up Evans, and possibly JP. They've already extend Peters. Like I said... Ralph is still spitting the bad taste in his mouth from the last round of free agents... When he sees the pieces fitting together, he'll pull the string appropriately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 If the Bills are going to lose 2 solid starters on defense and a kid who can rush the passer, these guys have to be somehow replaced. Free agency doesn't seem to be an option, leaving only the draft. I think that this philosophy almost necessitates a trade down in the draft. We need to get as many early picks as we can, and come away with something besides defensive backs instead of doing the opposite. The good news is that the Bills do seem mandated to spend more cash to get to the minimum. I truly hope that they use it on Kelsay, and/or to franchise Fletcher. I agree. I hope they do trade down - but I can't help but want to have Okoye if he's there at 12. Somehow I'm not looking forward to this year's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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